Project Saving Gracie" - Intro Day 20 - need Reassurance...

carolina

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Here is the last thread for those who are not familiar with the current situation http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=223637
I thought everything was doing well, but now I don't know anymore...
Gracie has been spending most days hiding under my desk, only leaving to eat, drink and barely to use the litterbox

If she tries to go anywhere, the resident cats give her a run... They run after her, and she runs right back to under my desk. Very few times she has been seen out side of this comfortable place.
Even Bugsy runs after her... I am sure he just wants to be friends, but she stills runs from him

There has not been fights so far, just hisses, but I don't want her to have a life of fear and hiding under a desk.
Lucky is an alpha, and whenever Gracie is out she will make sure to "put her in her place"...
I am not sure if I did the right thing for Gracie...
She is in constant fear I am sure...
The cats are not stressed, but I am sure she is...
She has gained weight, he fur is looking good, and she is taking her meds - that is the good side...
But what can I expect and what can I do for her?
I can't lock her up in my bathroom forever, nor do I have a second room to make it her room...

Maybe I should find her a home with a garden where she can be happy... Gosh, I just don't know what to do... Poor baby...
Is she going to be alright? Is time going to make this better?
 

white cat lover

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It's only been 20 days, I wouldn't worry too much or give up yet. As the number of cats in the home increases, the harder/longer intros are. I realize my Tabitha is more of a feral than Gracie is, but as a comparison it took her a long time to intro into my household. Even now she & Eden don't mesh well - they tolerate each other. When they see each other they avoid each other, give the other a wide berth, no hissing/swatting.
 

sharky

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Yeah I agree with White cat lover ... Give it time... Do you have rescue remedy in the water? Have you tried vanilla? My longest intro was 2 yrs
 

Winchester

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I agree. Our longest intro was about a year and that was with a young male. The other kids accepted Pumpkin, but BooBoo felt very threatened by Pumpkin being in the house and it was ugly for quite a while.

Patience is the key. No fights is a good sign. Hissing is normal. Keep working with her.
 

bastetservant

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I agree that it hasn't been that long. But you know I'm going on 9 weeks with my new girl, Tonya, still refusing to come out of the guest room. My newest tactic is to put up a very high metal rail baby gate on the door to her room. That is going really well, No one has jumped over it, and the hissing/growling through the gate is at a minimum (which all comes from Tonya - out of fear). Tonya stays out from under the bed now that the gate is up. Before that she would hide if I left the door open and any cat came near.

So, I think you should try to relax about it, as much as possible, and give it at least 3 more weeks, then 3 more weeks, if you can stand it. Gracie couldn't have a better home than with you, and I bet she knows it.

Here's a thought. From the video and your posts I've read, you seem to have a very low key and relaxed manner with your cats. I think that is great. But one thing that I've done, and it seems to have worked, is let my other cats know that any aggression towards Tonya - including going into her room and staring at her under the bed - is not alright with me. If they start that, and I usually know because Tonya starts hissing and growling, I go and chase them out with an "Out!" or a Momcat hiss. They exit. It hasn't stopped that behavior entirely, but almost.

So maybe expressing your disapproval, however you do that with your other cats, may help. My cats don't want me mad at them. They are very ingratiating after wards if they know they did something that aggravated me. My two males are always pushing each other's buttons (even though other times they are rubbing against each other) and I just have to say, "Stop!" and they break it up. Then soon after wards they are each checking with me to see if they are forgiven. (They always are, of course.)

Good luck, Carolina. I'm following your progress with Gracie and your gang closely because of my situation.


Robin
 
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carolina

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Originally Posted by 3CatsN1Dog

Its gonna take time and I think the more you stress and freak out all the cats are going to pick up on that and it will add stress to the situation.
Not stressed and freaked out - I am sad, and venting here... This is the cat site after-all, and where I come for help and insight... If they spoke english, I would go for them, but that is not the case...
 
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carolina

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Originally Posted by bastetservant

Here's a thought. From the video and your posts I've read, you seem to have a very low key and relaxed manner with your cats. I think that is great. But one thing that I've done, and it seems to have worked, is let my other cats know that any aggression towards Tonya - including going into her room and staring at her under the bed - is not alright with me. If they start that, and I usually know because Tonya starts hissing and growling, I go and chase them out with an "Out!" or a Momcat hiss. They exit. It hasn't stopped that behavior entirely, but almost.

So maybe expressing your disapproval, however you do that with your other cats, may help. My cats don't want me mad at them. They are very ingratiating after wards if they know they did something that aggravated me. My two males are always pushing each other's buttons (even though other times they are rubbing against each other) and I just have to say, "Stop!" and they break it up. Then soon after wards they are each checking with me to see if they are forgiven. (They always are, of course.)

Good luck, Carolina. I'm following your progress with Gracie and your gang closely because of my situation.
Hi Robin,

It is a fine line...
A the same time I need to give extra love and TLC to my resident cats during this time and reassure them that it is going to be ok Gracie to be here, I need to stop the harassing...
Last night, 5am I woke up with a huge hiss fit - I thought it was a fight, ran to the living room to find Gracie in side of a box castle, Lucky closing the exit on one side, and Bugsy on the other. I am sure she went to the litter box and they ran after her on the way back, when she took shelter... I am also pretty sure Bugsy was only curious, while Lucky... well, as an alpha, was showing who was the boss.
I took both of them, put them in my bedroom and locked the door so she could come out safely.
If you remember, I used the baby gate as well, but I do not have an extra room to do that permanently...
 
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carolina

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Something else I noticed, I am not sure if it has anything to do with it... I believe she is front paw declawed... When she scratches I hear no sound of claws, and even though she doesn't let me touch her paws, I can see absolutely no claws in them, although I can see on her back claws.
Can this make her extra defensive?
Nice that they declawed an outside cat
 

mrblanche

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It might. But as others have said, 3 weeks is really not all that long. After almost a year, Flambe and Punkin still swat at each other on a regular basis.
 

bastetservant

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Carolina, I also have my moments of doubt wondering if I did the right thing bringing Tonya home. She had a lot of cat and people company at the shelter, but she is alone many hours here. However she had no relationship with the people at the shelter, even hardly with me. Now she is very affectionate with me. How is Gracie with you?

I never thought Tonya would be like this because she lived in the cat room - loose with about 25 other cats - including some of the same cats who now live with me now! But here she is afraid of the others. And it is calm and quiet here, especially compared to the shelter.

I feel bad about her being alone so much. I sleep in that room on weekends, but I can't every night because I don't sleep well there. She sleeps with me then. But my other cats - 3 of the 4 - sleep with me all or part of the night in my regular bed. So they are unhappy when I'm sleeping in the guest room with Tonya.

I know you said you don't have an extra room. I'd probably put Gracie back in the bathroom with the gate for a while longer - when the cats are home alone or you are sleeping. I'd let Gracie out when I could supervise. You don't want her to get scared of using the liter box.

I think giving the aggressors a time out is a good idea. That's what I had to do daily when my boys were really having a hard time adjusting to each other. Now it's better, but Harlow has been her 4 months. Give it some time.

Robin
 

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When we were integrating "the boys" (Darko and Stinkpot), Callie would constantly run into her box, and they would run up to her and she would absolutely freak out and start hissing and growling, we'd have to rescue her, and then she would do it all over again! Finally we just had to get rid of the box, which made me sad because she always loved getting into boxes, but she couldn't grasp that instead of being able to feel safe in there, she just stressed out too much, poor girl.

Anyway, I realize your situation is in reverse, that it's your newbie that is being stressed out, but I agree with everyone elsel that it's only been 3 weeks. Does she still have her safe room (the bathroom) that she can go to that the other 3 are staying out of? I think she needs that, at least when you aren't there, or are sleeping. It sounds like maybe it's still too soon for them to be completely integrated.
 

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Originally Posted by Carolina

Not stressed and freaked out - I am sad, and venting here... This is the cat site after-all, and where I come for help and insight... If they spoke english, I would go for them, but that is not the case...
I understand what your saying and in no way was I trying to imply for you to not vent. I just meant that if your worrying they may pick up on those thoughts of worry your having, which is understandable for you to worry you have 3 kitties you have to be concerned about first and formost but also you brought in Gracie and are concerned about her too. It may just take more time than the average intro because they are all older and with Gracie being female she may take longer to get used to being around 3 other kitties rather than just one other.
 

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As you know, we really have no place to separate them at all - the bathroom works for a tiny baby kitten, but not a grown cat. Billy was REALLY cat friendly (rescued Nov 2008), and tried to headbump all the cats when we first brought him home. He got swatted and hissed at and batted at... and THEN he got nervous.

So not only had we separated him from his brother - he was now inside, alone, and scared. He had us. We gave the others extra love and play - but like Robin, we definitely let the cats know we were not OK with them messing with Billy, and we were very protective of him. It's a fine balance - and we probably erred on the side of Billy - which may have made the integration take longer, I don't know. But twice a day I'd carry him up front to the litter box and I'd stay with him so he could go to the bathroom in peace. I did this for probably at least a month - and then after that I'd carry him up to use the box close to daily, just to make sure he was going. We did try putting a litter box in the shower - but the other cats used it, and in there he was definitely cornered with nowhere to go!

It took three months to get his purr up.

Two years later.... he purrs most of the time, and he's just part of the crew.

Lazlo (our alpha) tormented him for months - and still sometimes gives him a good run, and Billy is still a little... cautious, let's say, around Laz.

I don't remember when it was - but at some point, I definitely started giving Lazlo "time outs" in the bathroom when he'd be aggressive to Billy. It's one thing to be alpha, and another to be a bully (IMO). I know Lazlo's just doing his alpha thing, and that's natural and all - but we live in a space that's just too small for that kind of stuff, and Lazlo KNEW we didn't want him "being mean" to Billy... so we just... helped him learn to "curb" that urge to be dominant.

But given your concern about her happiness, you can maybe start thinking about this as a foster situation, and start looking for a home for her. One where she'll be an alone kitty, and pampered. The problem is most people looking for only kitties want lap cats - and she doesn't seem the type? My point is that - you probably won't be able to be able to find a home for her for a lot of reasons (she's older, needs medication and vet care, and isn't a cuddly lap cat, and needs to be an alone kitty). But IF you do, then you've still done a wonderful thing for her - and if you don't, at least you feel like you're doing more for her now.


But especially given she's an older kitty, I think it's perfectly natural the process will take longer.

Does she ever seem happy? Does she like to play? Does she like attention of any kind? (Sorry, haven't kept up on all!). Does she enjoy any alone time?

If she has happy moments, I'd just do what I can to make more of those.
 
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carolina

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Originally Posted by LDG

Cutting to the chase:
Does she ever seem happy? No Does she like to play? Yes, only with the laser light Does she like attention of any kind? yes, she likes petting and loving, which I give her lots. (Sorry, haven't kept up on all!). Does she enjoy any alone time? If she enjoys or not, I don't know - she is always alone under my desk or a chair. It is sad, really. She just lays there, doing nothing. Sleeps most of the day - I think the house resumes to her a space of 3'x3', plus the litter box. She was hanging out at a big pillow by the door sometimes, but not anymore...
I know she is not happy here, I know that...
Is she healthier, no doubt about it. Happier? No.

If she has happy moments, I'd just do what I can to make more of those.
.................................
 

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You have to keep in mind that she is an older cat, so she is less likely to be as active as your other kitties. At this stage, at least in my experience, they tend to be more sedentary and want more loving rather than active playing. Chynna would play occasionally, but she spent most of her time sleeping and wanting to be loved on. Abby at 12 1/2 is the same way.
 

white cat lover

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Natalie_ca said it well - she's probably getting into the "couch potato" phase. I like them at that age.


Twitch & Cow are littermates @ about 8 y/o. Twitch is a bump on a log, while Cow is a crazy flying super cat of energy.

For an older/mellower cat, IMO they sometimes take more time to integrate simply because they need more time to adjust. And I've seen with my outside cats, that when they come indoors they are more defensive as outside they do get into much 'rougher' fights.
 
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carolina

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Originally Posted by Natalie_ca

You have to keep in mind that she is an older cat, so she is less likely to be as active as your other kitties. At this stage, at least in my experience, they tend to be more sedentary and want more loving rather than active playing. Chynna would play occasionally, but she spent most of her time sleeping and wanting to be loved on. Abby at 12 1/2 is the same way.
Originally Posted by white cat lover

Natalie_ca said it well - she's probably getting into the "couch potato" phase. I like them at that age.


Twitch & Cow are littermates @ about 8 y/o. Twitch is a bump on a log, while Cow is a crazy flying super cat of energy.

For an older/mellower cat, IMO they sometimes take more time to integrate simply because they need more time to adjust. And I've seen with my outside cats, that when they come indoors they are more defensive as outside they do get into much 'rougher' fights.
Couch potato is one thing... Being intimidate into a little dark corner of the house because you are not comfortable of being a couch potato elsewhere is another. Bugsy, is a couch potato - Gracie, is hiding in fear. It is different... I had enough time with Gracie at my neighbor's house, where she was comfortable, to know/see her normal behavior - she is the type of cat who lays down on the couch by you for hours... Yep, couch potato, but not the hiding type of cat (such as Bugsy, who loves the darkness of under the bed).
I see the difference... I saw her exploring my house, and I see her running and hiding right now... In the first couple of days she was braver - she would hang out on the pillow by the door, or under the coffee table... But not anymore.

Ok, so now to what just happened -
Took the laser light out, and put it to work - the girl plays like a little kitten... I think this is what I am going to use to socialize her. I was able to lure her to play all over the house. The kitties were watching and while she was playing, because her attention was on the light, and she knew my full attention was on her, she was comfortable, and there were no hisses whatsoever. We did the office, the living room and the kitchen.
We played, I combed her... She LOOOOOVES being combed... I played with her until we got to the turbotrack, she scratched...
Then she got tired and went back to her place.
I think what I have to do is play with her around the house and the kitties as much as I can - have her follow the laser light... Get her more comfortable with the house itself. Have to force myself to do this.

And yes, thanks for the tips on putting the kitties on time out. I will do that. Say a firm no and put them in my bedroom immediately so they know it is not alright to bully her. By the way, How do I recognize bullying from setting up hierarchy? I mean, in any intro, there is an order - and the cats will establish that order to the newcomer... It is important that we let that happens. In here, Lucky is #1, Hope #2, Bugsy #3. How do I differentiate them letting her know where she fits "in the pack", from bullying? It is a fine fine line....... and one I don't want to disrupt...
 
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carolina

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Originally Posted by white cat lover

And I've seen with my outside cats, that when they come indoors they are more defensive as outside they do get into much 'rougher' fights.
Oh Nat, thanks for this info - very good to know, and something I had not thought about it... Do your outside cats ever turn around?
Put it bluntly, Do I have hope here?
 
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