Project Saving Gracie" - Intro Day 20 - need Reassurance...

It's only been 20 days, I wouldn't worry too much or give up yet. As the number of cats in the home increases, the harder/longer intros are. I realize my Tabitha is more of a feral than Gracie is, but as a comparison it took her a long time to intro into my household. Even now she & Eden don't mesh well - they tolerate each other. When they see each other they avoid each other, give the other a wide berth, no hissing/swatting.

Yeah I agree with White cat lover ... Give it time... Do you have rescue remedy in the water? Have you tried vanilla? My longest intro was 2 yrs

Its gonna take time and I think the more you stress and freak out all the cats are going to pick up on that and it will add stress to the situation.

I agree. Our longest intro was about a year and that was with a young male. The other kids accepted Pumpkin, but BooBoo felt very threatened by Pumpkin being in the house and it was ugly for quite a while.

Patience is the key. No fights is a good sign. Hissing is normal. Keep working with her.

I agree that it hasn't been that long. But you know I'm going on 9 weeks with my new girl, Tonya, still refusing to come out of the guest room. My newest tactic is to put up a very high metal rail baby gate on the door to her room. That is going really well, No one has jumped over it, and the hissing/growling through the gate is at a minimum (which all comes from Tonya - out of fear). Tonya stays out from under the bed now that the gate is up. Before that she would hide if I left the door open and any cat came near.

So, I think you should try to relax about it, as much as possible, and give it at least 3 more weeks, then 3 more weeks, if you can stand it. Gracie couldn't have a better home than with you, and I bet she knows it.

Here's a thought. From the video and your posts I've read, you seem to have a very low key and relaxed manner with your cats. I think that is great. But one thing that I've done, and it seems to have worked, is let my other cats know that any aggression towards Tonya - including going into her room and staring at her under the bed - is not alright with me. If they start that, and I usually know because Tonya starts hissing and growling, I go and chase them out with an "Out!" or a Momcat hiss. They exit. It hasn't stopped that behavior entirely, but almost.

So maybe expressing your disapproval, however you do that with your other cats, may help. My cats don't want me mad at them. They are very ingratiating after wards if they know they did something that aggravated me. My two males are always pushing each other's buttons (even though other times they are rubbing against each other) and I just have to say, "Stop!" and they break it up. Then soon after wards they are each checking with me to see if they are forgiven. (They always are, of course.)

Good luck, Carolina. I'm following your progress with Gracie and your gang closely because of my situation.


Robin

It might. But as others have said, 3 weeks is really not all that long. After almost a year, Flambe and Punkin still swat at each other on a regular basis.

Carolina, I also have my moments of doubt wondering if I did the right thing bringing Tonya home. She had a lot of cat and people company at the shelter, but she is alone many hours here. However she had no relationship with the people at the shelter, even hardly with me. Now she is very affectionate with me. How is Gracie with you?

I never thought Tonya would be like this because she lived in the cat room - loose with about 25 other cats - including some of the same cats who now live with me now! But here she is afraid of the others. And it is calm and quiet here, especially compared to the shelter.

I feel bad about her being alone so much. I sleep in that room on weekends, but I can't every night because I don't sleep well there. She sleeps with me then. But my other cats - 3 of the 4 - sleep with me all or part of the night in my regular bed. So they are unhappy when I'm sleeping in the guest room with Tonya.

I know you said you don't have an extra room. I'd probably put Gracie back in the bathroom with the gate for a while longer - when the cats are home alone or you are sleeping. I'd let Gracie out when I could supervise. You don't want her to get scared of using the liter box.

I think giving the aggressors a time out is a good idea. That's what I had to do daily when my boys were really having a hard time adjusting to each other. Now it's better, but Harlow has been her 4 months. Give it some time.

Robin

When we were integrating "the boys" (Darko and Stinkpot), Callie would constantly run into her box, and they would run up to her and she would absolutely freak out and start hissing and growling, we'd have to rescue her, and then she would do it all over again! Finally we just had to get rid of the box, which made me sad because she always loved getting into boxes, but she couldn't grasp that instead of being able to feel safe in there, she just stressed out too much, poor girl.

Anyway, I realize your situation is in reverse, that it's your newbie that is being stressed out, but I agree with everyone elsel that it's only been 3 weeks. Does she still have her safe room (the bathroom) that she can go to that the other 3 are staying out of? I think she needs that, at least when you aren't there, or are sleeping. It sounds like maybe it's still too soon for them to be completely integrated.

all my thoughts are with you during this challenge, Carolina. Hang in there. You are a wonderful purrson

I understand what your saying and in no way was I trying to imply for you to not vent. I just meant that if your worrying they may pick up on those thoughts of worry your having, which is understandable for you to worry you have 3 kitties you have to be concerned about first and formost but also you brought in Gracie and are concerned about her too. It may just take more time than the average intro because they are all older and with Gracie being female she may take longer to get used to being around 3 other kitties rather than just one other.

As you know, we really have no place to separate them at all - the bathroom works for a tiny baby kitten, but not a grown cat. Billy was REALLY cat friendly (rescued Nov 2008), and tried to headbump all the cats when we first brought him home. He got swatted and hissed at and batted at... and THEN he got nervous.

So not only had we separated him from his brother - he was now inside, alone, and scared. He had us. We gave the others extra love and play - but like Robin, we definitely let the cats know we were not OK with them messing with Billy, and we were very protective of him. It's a fine balance - and we probably erred on the side of Billy - which may have made the integration take longer, I don't know. But twice a day I'd carry him up front to the litter box and I'd stay with him so he could go to the bathroom in peace. I did this for probably at least a month - and then after that I'd carry him up to use the box close to daily, just to make sure he was going. We did try putting a litter box in the shower - but the other cats used it, and in there he was definitely cornered with nowhere to go!

It took three months to get his purr up.

Two years later.... he purrs most of the time, and he's just part of the crew.

Lazlo (our alpha) tormented him for months - and still sometimes gives him a good run, and Billy is still a little... cautious, let's say, around Laz.

I don't remember when it was - but at some point, I definitely started giving Lazlo "time outs" in the bathroom when he'd be aggressive to Billy. It's one thing to be alpha, and another to be a bully (IMO). I know Lazlo's just doing his alpha thing, and that's natural and all - but we live in a space that's just too small for that kind of stuff, and Lazlo KNEW we didn't want him "being mean" to Billy... so we just... helped him learn to "curb" that urge to be dominant.

But given your concern about her happiness, you can maybe start thinking about this as a foster situation, and start looking for a home for her. One where she'll be an alone kitty, and pampered. The problem is most people looking for only kitties want lap cats - and she doesn't seem the type? My point is that - you probably won't be able to be able to find a home for her for a lot of reasons (she's older, needs medication and vet care, and isn't a cuddly lap cat, and needs to be an alone kitty). But IF you do, then you've still done a wonderful thing for her - and if you don't, at least you feel like you're doing more for her now.

But especially given she's an older kitty, I think it's perfectly natural the process will take longer.

Does she ever seem happy? Does she like to play? Does she like attention of any kind? (Sorry, haven't kept up on all!). Does she enjoy any alone time?

If she has happy moments, I'd just do what I can to make more of those.

You have to keep in mind that she is an older cat, so she is less likely to be as active as your other kitties. At this stage, at least in my experience, they tend to be more sedentary and want more loving rather than active playing. Chynna would play occasionally, but she spent most of her time sleeping and wanting to be loved on. Abby at 12 1/2 is the same way.

Natalie_ca said it well - she's probably getting into the "couch potato" phase. I like them at that age.

Twitch & Cow are littermates @ about 8 y/o. Twitch is a bump on a log, while Cow is a crazy flying super cat of energy.

For an older/mellower cat, IMO they sometimes take more time to integrate simply because they need more time to adjust. And I've seen with my outside cats, that when they come indoors they are more defensive as outside they do get into much 'rougher' fights.

If Tabitha can socialize & integrate into my household, Gracie can fit in there!

It's hard to remain positive when you want so much more for your kitty than what they currently have. I went through this with Callie when we introduced Hannah. After 2 years, I actually got a BETTER Callie than I had prior to Hannah. However, it was a very slow and long road. There were many times I'd lay on the floor petting Callie and crying because she was so unhappy that Hannah was in the house. Now, though, she's learned to co-habitate with Hannah and has lots of places to chill out. She's not scared of Hannah and Callie is now a lap cat! She never did that prior to Hannah. Callie's also such a happy girl, even with the addition of Tumbles in July. It just took lots of love, patience, and perseverance.

Also, if thyroid problems in cats is anything like in humans, one of the "symptoms" is lethargy. Even with the appropriate amount of medication and treatment, a thyroid patient may remain more tired than a normal person and have little get up and go.

Now that I have more time, allow me to elaborate. When Tab moved in, she was scared of everyone/everything. She'd flip out at the other cats, pretty much lived under a dresser. She had a kitty bed to hide in under the dresser, in addition to food/water, & a litterbox "protected" like a cave right next to the dresser. I never saw her leave that 5' area for a very very very long time. I eventually moved her into the closet, giving her food/water in the closet & again a litterbox in a protected area right by the closet.

With time, she warmed up to the idea of the other cats, once they lost interest in her & weren't so nosy - she could monitor them w/o them knowing she was watching their every move. Once she learned how they functioned, & that they had no intent upon harming her, she started to sniff noses/get close to them. This was probably 3 -4 months in. And I have all kinds of purr-sonalities. Alpha, submissive, & everything in between.

It's now somewhere around a year later & I can pet her, approach her. She'll play when I'm in the room & plays chase with Gumby Gut. Yeah it took a very long time, but hey - we got here.

Just to chime in on the older cats who were outdoors thing...Cotton spent the entire first month he was with us living in a 1ft x 2ft space between the computer desk and a garbage can. If he wasn't in our lap, he was in 'his cave.' Even though Freya wasn't being particularly nasty to him, he jut couldn't seem to handle coming out of his safe spot for quite awhile.

I know you're worried about her, but from your posts, it does sound like Gracie is slowly starting to get used to things.

Sorry Carolina, I meant does she enjoy alone time with you. And obviously the answer is yes.

Given that... I think it's just a matter of time.

As to your question about bullying vs. the hierarchy thing.... we didn't bother trying to figure that out. If Billy was crouched, running, or cornered - basically, if he was scared and felt intimidated, we intervened.

I'm with LDG regarding the bullying vs. hierarchy issue. I can't even tell you who is the alpha cat in my house. Actually, I am.

I don't approve of bad manners. Everybody has to be nice and get along.

At least when I'm home.




Robin

Also, remember she is older and not only is she learning a new house and all it's sounds and such, learning to trust you, she's acquired 3 curious siblings. On top of all that, she's trying to beef up and get back to health. I can't think of anyone (human) who would want to do all that while not feeling 100% well. She's undergone a big change in her life and she's still learning the ropes.

It speaks volumes that you're so concerned about her well-being. I think if she does choose to live in your bathroom and is in good health, eating well, maintaining her weight, and enjoying your company, then that's much better than the life she was living.

Sounds like you've got everything under control. Just wanted to jump in and say that she sounds very much like my Hestia..(who was rehomed to me at the age of ten, declawed). It has been a few years and Hestia is still the bottom of the totem pole around here. But it's not in a miserable sad way. It's just that she is so defensive it makes it very hard for her to establish any relationship with any kind of animal (I have a disabled ferret that she will run and hiss at and he can't even walk straight let alone pester her). Thing is though she LOVES attention from me and my OH..she is all about people. Also, once it was established which part of the house was "her" territory and such then there wasn't really any problems. I finally figured out she is just never going to be "friends" with the other fuzzies and that is okay, she is older too and spends a lot of time sleeping on her own on her turf. But she also comes to me and OH for cuddles and purrs and "makes muffins" and such. It makes me sad to think how confident of a cat she would have been if she still had her claws, but what's done is done and I know she is happier here than where she came from. The first year she was here was the rockiest..we'd have progress then go backwards a little.
I don't really have any advice, I just kind of wanted to say "hey, i've been there and it all turned out alright" or some kind of reassurance