Do you agree this should be standards of education

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by Willowy

Are you really saying that you think I don't know any history? Or math? Or any "school" subject?

Who said unschoolers don't know history?
Talking about the kids in the OP's first post and parents that don't do anything.

While you may have been driven to learn, a lot of kids are not. The US doesn't just lag behind other countries due to poor teaching, but also because a lot of kids now days are lazy.
 

ut0pia

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Originally Posted by Willowy

Are you really saying that you think I don't know any history? Or math? Or any "school" subject?

Who said unschoolers don't know history? Just because nobody stuffed it down their throats doesn't mean they don't learn things. That information is available wherever you want to find it, it's not like textbooks have a monopoly on information. I was particularly fond of historical fiction as a teenager. The fiction led me to look up the factual information, etc. Sometimes I looked at actual textbooks (gasp!). Because I did it myself doesn't negate that learning.

Unschoolers learn BECAUSE nobody forces them to. Learning is the natural human way to live. The only way to suppress that natural instinct to learn all the time is to make learning unpleasant, as many schools tend to do.

And let's say an unschooler DID do nothing but sit around all day watching TV, reading comic books, and twiddling around on the internet. I doubt that describes a normal unschooler but let's just say that. I'm pretty sure I learned just as much from watching Jeopardy, nature programs, Law & Order, and even sitcoms, as I learned from "official" sources. The internet has all the info you ever wanted to know (and plenty you didn't want to know, too). I wish I had the internet when I was a kid. I had to take the bus to the library! And I KNOW I learned more from Archie comics than from any schoolbook. I'm sure that the majority of unschoolers do a lot more than just sit around. Museums, theaters, nature hikes, etc.--it's not like they live in a closet!

As for passing the GED, I never even looked at an algebra or geometry book. I had no interest at all. I fully expected to flub the math section entirely, but figured I could score high enough on the other subjects to make up for it. But! I scored just as high on the math section as I did on every other subject. I don't know how or why. I guess somehow, in my normal everyday life, I must have absorbed enough algebra and geometry to get by.

If I ever needed to deal with higher math, or know advanced chemistry for some reason, I know I could pick it up quickly. It's not like people stop learning once they turn a certain age.
The thing I can't understand is, I look at myself now as an adult, I have so many interests that I could learn about and want to learn about- like I'd like to learn Japanese for example- but I still would take a class in order to learn it, I would find it more difficult for me to just study on my own. I would also love to take some art classes and learn more about art history. But I still find it hard to just sit down and study art history on my own, maybe it's lack of self discipline. But don't we all lack that to some degree? So I don't understand how a child is expected to just sit down and learn skills to use in order to an earn a living in life or further develop their talents all on his/her own if I can't even do it as an adult.
 

Willowy

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

Talking about the kids in the OP's first post and parents that don't do anything.
I admit they're at a disadvantage if the parents don't foster a learning environment, but still, they don't live in a closet. They'll learn something. It's the way humans are.

And I can't say my parents did a lot, educationally speaking. I did it myself.

Most older kids may not be driven to learn, this is usually because they've shut down due to being in a bad school environment. Learned helplessness is a terrible thing. But most unschoolers have never been to school and are not shut down. The natural instinct of humans is to always learn.

And sure, sometime the best way to learn something is to take a class or to find an experienced person who can give private lessons. There is no reason an unschooler wouldn't do this. The point of unschooling being that nobody forces you to "learn" anything, but seeking guidance from people with experience in what you want to learn is not the same as being forced.
 

ut0pia

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Originally Posted by Willowy

I admit they're at a disadvantage if the parents don't foster a learning environment, but still, they don't live in a closet. They'll learn something. It's the way humans are.
Well I'm sure they will learn something- my grandmother who only went to school until 8th grade is more intelligent than a lot of people with college degrees, because she has been reading a lot all of her life. So I understand that you can learn a lot on your own just by satisfying your curiosity. But she still worked at a factory practically as an unskilled laborer making barely enough to survive and lived a difficult life. So, while I agree that you can be intelligent you are still at a disadvantage in today's world unless you have some kind of either formal education or a skill that you learn by practicing and being taught.
 

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by ut0pia

I'd like to learn Japanese for example- but I still would take a class in order to learn it, I would find it more difficult for me to just study on my own.
Start working on it. You can fully learn katakana and hiragana in 2-5 days if you try. Kanji takes time, but you could learn several a week. Speaking is harder because you need someone to help you and practice with. That's where I was blocked - There are no classes I can take for it around here.

Learning is very dependent on learning style, which is where schools fail in some areas, too. They don't address that some kids learn very differently. However, say those that learn from actually doing, won't be able to pick up some information at home. If you tried to order the chemicals needed for some chemistry experiments, now, you'd get flagged by Homeland Security and who knows who would show up at your door.

Some things you simply have to learn from actually doing, period. You wouldn't want a doctor or nurse with just book knowledge and no actual experience, would you?
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

Learning is very dependent on learning style, which is where schools fail in some areas, too. They don't address that some kids learn very differently. However, say those that learn from actually doing, won't be able to pick up some information at home. If you tried to order the chemicals needed for some chemistry experiments, now, you'd get flagged by Homeland Security and who knows who would show up at your door.

I have taken a few classes and read several books on learning styles and most schools only focus on one to two styles which can leave many to struggle.
 

jillian

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Willlowy-As a radical unschooler, I'm loving your responses. My son is just three and a half, but it's amazing to see how much he learns everyday just by living life. I'd love to talk to you some more about your experience as an unschooler if you'd be willing to chat. PM me?
 

adriana

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I was home schooled for most of grade 2 and grade 6. For me, it's not so much the education, but the environmental and social aspects that bothered me. I would never home school my future children, simply because I think that in a public school they'd have a better chance of being more accepting of others, more socialized and learning about other cultures, ideas and ways of life. Of course, a lot of that is up to me as a parent, but there's only so much you do when you're at home most of your life from a baby to adulthood. I think it's good to put children in situations where they need to develop social skills and learn and develop their own opinions that may just differ from their parents. I know that my parents and I think VERY differently. We have very different opinions on several different topics and I can't help but wonder, what would have happened if I had been home schooled my whole life? Perhaps I would have only known one way of life and thought that was the only way. Just my two cents.
 

carolina

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Just out of curiosity... Is there some sort of statistic out there of the percentage of unschooled/anti-schooled kids that make into college, or graduate from Universities? Anything that compares them with kids from traditional education?
 

zohdee

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My son was bullied in school and I looked into a home schooling program for him.

I didn't feel that I was educated enough in math to provide him a good education. I told the agency who oversees homes schooling this. They keep sending me information and my son will be graduating public school in June.

In all honesty, I sometimes think parents do this out of greed. You get a computer and high speed internet paid for. I am not saying all parents do that but I bet a good few do.

There are things that are learned in school that some don't learn with home schooling. Social interacting is the big one.
 

Willowy

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Originally Posted by Carolina

Just out of curiosity... Is there some sort of statistic out there of the percentage of unschooled/anti-schooled kids that make into college, or graduate from Universities? Anything that compares them with kids from traditional education?
I don't know. One thing to consider is that a lot of non-traditionally educated people are wildly non-conformist and may choose career paths that don't require further schooling (un-jobbing! There's a book about it if you're curious). So it may be that many homeschoolers/unschoolers don't even try to get into college. I'll see if I can find something. I've never known anyone who was turned down for college, no matter what their early schooling choices were, but I'll see if I can find stats for that, too.
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by zohdee

In all honesty, I sometimes think parents do this out of greed. You get a computer and high speed internet paid for. I am not saying all parents do that but I bet a good few do.

There are things that are learned in school that some don't learn with home schooling. Social interacting is the big one.
In the past social was an issue... Now I can only speak for where I live now , but they have more home school trips and social days than most schools. They are very organized which is something as a child I did not see with my home schooled friends...
 

Willowy

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Originally Posted by zohdee

In all honesty, I sometimes think parents do this out of greed. You get a computer and high speed internet paid for. I am not saying all parents do that but I bet a good few do.
Wow! Homeschoolers in your state get a computer and internet service? That's awesome. We never got anything. Homeschoolers in this state don't get anything (except hassles).

I don't know why anyone thinks homeschoolers don't get enough social interaction. Day-to-day life for most people includes plenty of interaction with various people. Kids in school don't interact personally with all of the hundreds of people in their school. They usually have a close group of friends they hang out with. So do homeschooled kids.

I will say that I'm something of a social misfit, but that's because both of my parents are. I think it's genetic, LOL. They both went to all 12 years of public school, plus some college, so I don't think public schooling guarantees social success at all. You are who you are, regardless of schooling.
 

Willowy

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Originally Posted by Adriana

I know that my parents and I think VERY differently. We have very different opinions on several different topics and I can't help but wonder, what would have happened if I had been home schooled my whole life? Perhaps I would have only known one way of life and thought that was the only way. Just my two cents.
I have plenty (!) of opinions that differ from those of my parents. I'm pretty sure that's just something that happens to most kids at a certain age. Unless a parent prevents all contact with people and ideas from outside the family (might happen sometimes, though I think that's a deeper issue, independent of schooling choices), the kids will find their own opinions at some point.

Sorry to post piecemeal like this! It's hard to multi-quote on a smartphone
. I always end up erasing something.
 

jillian

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In regards to "socialization," I think what some people tend to forget is that school really isn't a social place (and a lot of the interaction that occurs between kids is hostile). In school, children sit at desks nearly all day long and are told *not* to talk to one another. Other than lunch time and possibly during group work time, they really don't interact all that much.

On the other hand, my son is a part of my husband's and my full, entire life. He goes where we go and is invited to take part in many different kinds of social interactions. Today, for example, he and I played alone, one-on-one together. We also went to the park where he played with children who were younger than him, older than him, and right around his age. He had a few short conversations with a few of the other moms at the park. This evening, we video chatted with my husband, who is away at a conference, and had an in-person conversation with a mom-friend of mine who stopped by to say hello. He was a full partner in these conversations; he wasn't told to "shush" or to go and play somewhere while Mama and her friend talked. He is engaged by both children and adults alike on a daily basis.
 

calico2222

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I just don't understand the concept of "unschooling". I'm sorry, I'm not attacking anyone or putting anyone down, and honestly I never even heard of it until I read this thread. So, kids are just allowed to learn what they want, when they feel like it? That makes no sense to me. Kids just want to have fun and learn about what interests them, which is great, but they need to learn about what doesn't interest them as well. If I only learned what interested me, I wouldn't know how to add or subtract because I HATE math with a passion.

I mean, it may work for a small percentage of children but obviously it didn't work for the OP's example. If she can't tell time or look up a number in the phone book, that is pretty sad.

What I want to know is what happens if there is a disaster and internet service is not available? What if the power goes out and all the digital clocks aren't working? What happens if her cell phone goes dead or breaks and she can't look up a phone number? That girl is basically screwed. I think so many people rely so much on the internet and technology that we wouldn't know how to manage if everything just went poof...and that's sad.
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by Willowy

Wow! Homeschoolers in your state get a computer and internet service? That's awesome. We never got anything. Homeschoolers in this state don't get anything (except hassles).

I don't know why anyone thinks homeschoolers don't get enough social interaction. Day-to-day life for most people includes plenty of interaction with various people. Kids in school don't interact personally with all of the hundreds of people in their school. They usually have a close group of friends they hang out with. So do homeschooled kids.

I will say that I'm something of a social misfit, but that's because both of my parents are. I think it's genetic, LOL. They both went to all 12 years of public school, plus some college, so I don't think public schooling guarantees social success at all. You are who you are, regardless of schooling.
Those using the "new" home school based on public education often do get a computer( free if at the right income or below) ... At least here that is how ... Internet maybe for those who did not have prior .
 
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