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Who was wrong?

post #1 of 22
11/17/10 at 5:59pm
Thread Starter 
I'm curious what others think about how this was handled.

Two kids in a grade 7 class are friends, I'll call them A and B. Both kids like to draw and exchange notes. The notes are written/drawn during free time at lunch and at nutrition break. The notes are not threatening in any way; they are funny pictures, jests, puns, and harmless jokes. One note listed ideas for reality show spoofs, and one of the ideas listed was for a mock reality show called "Extreme Penis" (with no drawings). All the notes were for fun, written for exchange between the two friends, and to make each other laugh.

A and B's teacher is aware of and has no problems with the notes, since they weren't written during class time.

While A and B were eating lunch in the cafeteria, two other kids, I'll call them Y and Z, went through everything in A and B's desks in the classroom. Y and Z found the notes in the desks and gave them to the principal. The principal called A and B separately into his office, and gave them each stern lectures and made them both promise never to write notes again. A and B were given the option to tell their parents or have the principal call their parents. A and B were in tears by the time they left the principal's office.

Do you think that was fair? Would you have done the same as the principal? Why or why not?
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post #2 of 22
11/17/10 at 6:24pm
I think Y and Z should learn to respect other people's property. If I was principal, I would have probably had talk with Y and Z about going through other people's things.
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post #3 of 22
11/17/10 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nurseangel View Post
I think Y and Z should learn to respect other people's property. If I was principal, I would have probably had talk with Y and Z about going through other people's things.

Y and Z's behavior is typical of bullies IMHO... I don't know why, but that is what is sounds like to me.
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post #4 of 22
11/17/10 at 6:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nurseangel View Post
I think Y and Z should learn to respect other people's property. If I was principal, I would have probably had talk with Y and Z about going through other people's things.
As the kid who often had her desk ransacked by classmates, I agree with this.

So long as it wasn't on class time and they weren't being disruptive, what's the problem? Would they have gotten in trouble for hanging out quietly at recess drawing pictures? This sort of thing is exactly what turns kids off of school...

I think A & B should have been left alone and Y & Z should have had their parents called for their obvious lack of respect for their classmates things. All the principal accomplished in this case was to teach Y & Z that they'll be rewarded for breaking rules so long as they can implicate someone else and teach A & B to mistrust authority and their classmates.

Sorry - this one hit a bit close to home for me.
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post #5 of 22
11/17/10 at 6:42pm
I think the principle was completely out of line and that Y and Z should have been in the office for going through the other kids things. I would personally punish my children if they went through another child's things unless they had seen a weapon or something of the sort and then it should have just been reported. I have been bullied before, and to me that is just that, and the teacher actually joined in and I see this as the same thing. Why would you put a kid through that for being a kid.
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post #6 of 22
11/17/10 at 7:35pm
A & B sound like kids being kids to me. And I agree, Y and Z need to be getting a talking to as well. I honestly think the principal should have spoken to the teacher. The principal is undermining the teachers authority. If the teacher knew about that particular note and thought it was something inappropriate to be left in a desk or discussed like that during school time (break time or not); then the teacher should have been the one to talk to them. And if I was the Mama of A or B; I'd be having a chat with the principal.
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post #7 of 22
11/17/10 at 7:50pm
I agree, I think Y and Z should have been the ones that were spoken to and parents contacted, not A and B. If I were a parent of A or B and I found out that it happened in this fashion, I would be very angry, as would my husband.
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post #8 of 22
11/17/10 at 8:21pm
This would be what the principle saw if it was my kid, and I was A and B's mama Just for starters he would get the lecture and might be infront of others.
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post #9 of 22
11/17/10 at 9:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nurseangel View Post
I think Y and Z should learn to respect other people's property. If I was principal, I would have probably had talk with Y and Z about going through other people's things.
couldn't agree more. What were they doing going through the desks?
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post #10 of 22
11/17/10 at 10:16pm
Public schools tend to treat kids like prisoners. Just more of the same .
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post #11 of 22
11/17/10 at 10:37pm
If I were the parent of A or B, I would be having a meeting with the Principal and finding our why he condones Y & Z going through other people's desks.

Y & Z should have detention or some form of punishment for their behaviour IMO.
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post #12 of 22
11/18/10 at 4:43am
Y&Z should be punished for not minding their own business and going through other students property. If I was the parent of students A and B and the principal called me, I would tell that principal to mind his or her own business.
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post #13 of 22
11/18/10 at 5:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nurseangel View Post
I think Y and Z should learn to respect other people's property. If I was principal, I would have probably had talk with Y and Z about going through other people's things.


Why is it okay that Y & Z went through A & B's desks?
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post #14 of 22
11/18/10 at 5:44am
My sister is the assistant principal at a middle school. When I talk to her tonight, I'm going to ask her how she would deal with this situation.

IMO, the principal was way out of line. The fact that Y & Z went through the desks and didn't get in trouble for that? Wrong! I agree with Carolina....that smacks of bullying!

With the way schools are today, you can't do anything anymore! And I think that's rather sad. A or B's parents need to raise a little cain about this....I'd be talking with the principal.
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post #15 of 22
11/18/10 at 5:56am
I agree with what everyone else said...Y and Z need a good talkin too about what they did rather than crawling up A and B's butts about something so trivial and harmless that the teacher already knew about.


In my area we have had the tragedy of bullying hit close to home and its something that will always bother me beyond belief having been bullied and picked on all thru school. After everything that has been in the news about bullying why in the world would a principal of a school condone an act of bullying not to mention the invasion of privacy..What the heck was wrong with Y and Z..were they jealous that they werent included in the notes?????
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post #16 of 22
11/18/10 at 6:56am
Wow, poor A & B... They did nothing wrong in my opinion, they're just kids being kids! Z & Y should have been the ones punished for being bullies, going through other people's things and for simply trying to cause trouble!
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post #17 of 22
11/18/10 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberThe Bobcat View Post
If I was the parent of students A and B and the principal called me, I would tell that principal to mind his or her own business.
This made me smile because my Dad actually did this (although he was a bit less polite about it.) I didn't bother doing math homework one night in high school and my teacher phoned my Dad at work to tell him. His response was "and you have nothing better to be doing in the middle of the day than phoning the parents of the kids who have 95% in your class?" I never had a teacher phone my parents about me again.
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post #18 of 22
11/18/10 at 8:09am
Absolutely - A and B were being kids doing nothing wrong. If during class time, that's a different story. But on their own time - with a teacher aware of it? The principal should have spoken to the teacher - basically investigating the situation before taking ANY action. In Canada, I believe you are innocent until proven guilty? The kids privacy was violated, and THAT is the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The parents of A and B should be raising hell. The school needs to changes its practices when it comes to handling situations like this. The situation should have been looked into before anything happened. And based on the information you've provided, Y and Z should be the ones in the principal's office, and they're the ones whose parents should be notified!
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post #19 of 22
11/18/10 at 8:20am
I am going to toss my two cents in as well...

I agree with everyone that the A & B did nothing wrong kids are kids and that is all normal. I passed notes with my friends at that age heck in fact we had a whole novel going with each person writing a chapter in our free periods and passing it off to another in the halls between classes. We tag-teamed an entire novel that way (it took us a whole year to pull it off)

I think Y & Z are the ones who should be in trouble...but maybe I missed this...but why didn't the teacher stand up for A & B? When clearly Y & Z were the ones breaking the rules?
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post #20 of 22
11/18/10 at 10:05am
Thread Starter 
Thanks, everyone for the replies! I'll try to answer some of the questions (hoping they weren't all rhetorical).


Quote:
Originally Posted by mbjerkness View Post
couldn't agree more. What were they doing going through the desks?
Good question! In real life, you cannot go through someone's personal belongings and take stuff, that is against the law. And any "evidence" that is ill-gotten, can not be used against anyone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tara & Rob View Post


Why is it okay that Y & Z went through A & B's desks?
That is something the principal needs to explain, I think!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 3CatsN1Dog View Post
..What the heck was wrong with Y and Z..were they jealous that they werent included in the notes?????
A and B are boy and girl, although they are just friends at that age it looks like it might be more. Y and Z follow them around a lot, asking if they have kissed yet and other stupid questions. My theory is that Y and Z are envious that A has a "girlfriend."

What's going on with the principal, though, is anybody's guess!


Quote:
Originally Posted by vampcow View Post
I think Y & Z are the ones who should be in trouble...but maybe I missed this...but why didn't the teacher stand up for A & B? When clearly Y & Z were the ones breaking the rules?
The teacher was completely out of the loop, Y and Z took the notes and read them, and then (I'm guessing on some level) realized that they were in possession of stolen property and since the word "penis" was on one note, they decided to redirect the blame and give the notes to the principal.

If I were the principal, I would not have even read the notes, but I would have lectured Y and Z about stealing, and then I would have marched them to the classroom and made them return the notes with an apology!
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post #21 of 22
11/18/10 at 10:10am
The principal and Y and Z were wrong - the other kids had NO business going thru the other kids desks and taking the notes.

If the principal knows who those kids were, they should have been punished. However, unless the principal also talked to the teacher who was aware of when the notes were written, then how would the principal know when they were written by A & B.

I do have a little concern about the "content" of some of the notes - I'd be concerned about that part.
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post #22 of 22
11/18/10 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I do have a little concern about the "content" of some of the notes - I'd be concerned about that part.
I'm glad you said that. I was starting to feel like an old fuddy duddy and I'm really not, but extreme penis? I too, think that Y & Z were wrong, but A&B should have been told that extreme penis is not appropriate.
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