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"If you touch my junk, I'll have you arrested"

post #1 of 173
11/16/10 at 8:52am
Thread Starter 
I'm surprised we aren't already talking about this here.

TSA has new screening procedures in place. If you are pre-selected for the Super Secret Security Screen, or if you set off the metal detectors, or look dodgy, or whatever criteria they use, you have two choices. You can go through the x-ray machine that may expose you to unhealthy doses of radiation as well as giving the screener(s) a pretty full view of your naked body, or you can get the "pat down" which is them touching your entire body - including genital area. Drudge had a photo of an older nun getting the pat down on his sight yesterday. They do have an exemption for children 12 and under.

(I refer to it as the Super Secret Security Screen because we were "randomly" selected for it out and back, both trips that we had to make to Chicago for funerals in the past few years. Obviously we had to book flights without much advance, 2 days at most. On our boarding pass was SSSS as notice that we were "randomly" selected. "Randomly" my hind end! Understandable, yes, but drop the whole "random" act.)

This really made the news when a man at the San Diego airport refused the body scan and after the pat down was explained he stated, "OK, but if you touch my junk I'll have you arrested." His argument was that what they proposed to do constituted sexual assault if anyone else in the country did it, and just because they are the federal government doesn't mean they can. While it may not be "sexual assault" as there isn't the intention there for sexual gratification, it would most certainly be assault in by any US State's law. For refusing the searches, he was not allowed in or out of the airport security area and was threatened with a $10,000 fine.

Not even criminals are allowed to be touched in that manner. They can be strip searched, but the police cannot touch a person before or after conviction in the genital area.

I was unaware of just how invasive the body scan really is because I had only seen the images on news shows and news websites. They have to blur out the genital area to be able to legally show it because it would not conform to FCC regulations. I cannot even link to an image here because it is not family friendly. The body scan clearly shows every curve lump and bump, every body cavity, and the clear image of the penis and testicles (of a man, obviously). The only thing lacking is flesh coloring, but they are essentially doing a strip search on you while exposing you to potentially unhealthy levels of radiation.

Pilots and flight staff are not immune, and they are not happy to say the least.

Here's an article from USA Today about the whole thing

The question really is, how much of your privacy are you willing to give up for the sake of "security?"

Remember...not one of the plots that have been, thankfully, stopped have been on flights that originated in the US. Not one. And this goes well beyond government access to library cards! This is some stranger either seeing you, basically, naked or feeling your breasts, your buttocks, and your groin. And how would you feel if they "randomly" selected your 13 year old son or daughter for this SSSS?
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post #2 of 173
11/16/10 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
Remember...not one of the plots that have been, thankfully, stopped have been on flights that originated in the US. Not one.
These regulations will help keep it that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
And this goes well beyond government access to library cards! This is some stranger either seeing you, basically, naked or feeling your breasts, your buttocks, and your groin. And how would you feel if they "randomly" selected your 13 year old son or daughter for this SSSS?
As sad as it is that we have come to this, I would rather have my family subjected to either method than find out the underwear bomber or someone like him was on the plane with them. Thats the bottom line for me.
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post #3 of 173
11/16/10 at 9:42am
Keep in mind that the terrorists don't have to even get on the planes now - all they need to do is walk in the airports with explosives strapped on them and set them off in the middle of the crowd before you even are going thru the scanner.

You don't think they are smart enough to do this - think again! How many "suicide bombers" are walking in a crowded area?
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post #4 of 173
11/16/10 at 10:26am
I don't have any problem with the "naked body" scanners which, according to some sources, but not others, only expose you to infinitesimally small amounts of radiation, and which have been in use in other countries like Holland for a while. I imagine whoever has the job of screening the images will OD on "naked" images. Given the choice, I'd prefer such a scan to extremely thorough frisking.
Experts quell radiation fears over Manchester Airport's 'naked' scanners
Quote:
Axel Macdonald, of the HPA’s centre for radiation, chemicals and environmental hazards, said: “Since the start of the year a huge amount of attention has been paid to the use of X-ray security scanners in UK airports. Some people have been concerned about the privacy issues while others have raised fears about their health from further radiation exposure.

“What has not been widely reported in the coverage is that radiation doses from this technology are very small, especially when compared to those that air travellers receive from cosmic rays when flying.

“The body scan dose from a single scan gives travellers about the same amount of radiation as you get in 15 seconds from cosmic rays while flying at 35,000ft.
“If the government opts to roll out this technology to all UK airports our advice to the travelling public would be do not see this technology as a barrier to air travel.”

Experts say people living in Britain are already exposed to natural radiation and can safely pass through the body scanner 5,000 times a year.
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post #5 of 173
11/16/10 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
As sad as it is that we have come to this, I would rather have my family subjected to either method than find out the underwear bomber or someone like him was on the plane with them. Thats the bottom line for me.
That assumes someone like the underwear bomber was selected "randomly" for a scan. Nothing they're doing make you any more or less safe, in my opinion. It just makes you feel like you are safer.
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post #6 of 173
11/16/10 at 2:48pm
Flying is not a right. If you don't want to go through the security, drive, take a train, bus, whatever.

It's the human body. We are all alike. People need to get over being offended. I'd rather be offended and alive than not throughly scanned and dead.

You see the outline of the body, nothing specific. Yea, it could be embarassing. But people need to get over it. It's the way of the world now, so just get used to it.
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post #7 of 173
11/16/10 at 3:27pm
I'd much rather be radiated then touched...
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post #8 of 173
11/16/10 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by farleyv View Post
Flying is not a right. If you don't want to go through the security, drive, take a train, bus, whatever.

It's the human body. We are all alike. People need to get over being offended. I'd rather be offended and alive than not throughly scanned and dead.

You see the outline of the body, nothing specific. Yea, it could be embarassing. But people need to get over it. It's the way of the world now, so just get used to it.
Yes its a human body, but you are wrong about just seeing the outline. The pictures they show are blurred - only cause they cannot show you the true picture as its much more clearer then you can put on tv, etc. You see far more then "the outline of a body" -it IS specific. There are people that have gone thru this and while TSA is supposed to delete the pictures, some have made it to the web and its clear body parts!

Like I said - the terrorists don't even need to use planes to set bombs off - they have many other methods where there is no security!


And to another part on these scanners/pat downs - NOW there are Muslim women wanting to be "exempted" from both because of their "religion" and not supposed to be touched or seen by another person that is not their spouse - do you agree with that? Muslim women are used many times as bombers where its hidden beneath their clothes - you think that is right they should be exempt?????
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post #9 of 173
11/16/10 at 8:37pm
We've been capitulating our liberties at a fairly fast clip since 9/11. What is enough? When have we given up enough? They cloak everything in the name of "safety"...it's the pill pocket they use to get us to swallow this all whole. How much do we allow before it's too late?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
And to another part on these scanners/pat downs - NOW there are Muslim women wanting to be "exempted" from both because of their "religion" and not supposed to be touched or seen by another person that is not their spouse - do you agree with that? Muslim women are used many times as bombers where its hidden beneath their clothes - you think that is right they should be exempt?????
I think a lot more than muslim women should be exempt. Also? It's incredibly rude to put quotation marks around the word religion when speaking of someone elses religion.
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post #10 of 173
11/17/10 at 4:43am
Does anyone find the potential of having to go thru that absolutely creepy and weird?

Im all for security but I have a problem when it starts flirting with a line between decent and indecent. If their body searches involve searching a persons private areas in depth thats just wrong. As someone said before, they arent even that bad when it comes to jail searches. Squat, cough and your done.....
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post #11 of 173
11/17/10 at 4:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by farleyv View Post
Flying is not a right. If you don't want to go through the security, drive, take a train, bus, whatever.

It's the human body. We are all alike. People need to get over being offended. I'd rather be offended and alive than not throughly scanned and dead.

You see the outline of the body, nothing specific. Yea, it could be embarassing. But people need to get over it. It's the way of the world now, so just get used to it.
I agree totally!

I think even bus and train terminals should be subject to the same security. There have been some horrific incidences here where people have gotten on a bus coach and murdered a person because they had a knife on them.

I looked at the images by going to google and searching out airport full body scanners, and I don't see any cause for alarm. Seeing an outline is one thing, but there is no definition. There are images of a woman going through the scan. The lower part of her body looks like she's wearing underwear. You don't see any genital/pubic detail. And given the images I saw, regular scanners or searches would have missed the items these people were packing.

I'd rather go through a body scanner along with everyone else in order to ensure that the plane I am getting on doesn't have any psychotic bomb toting, gun wielding, knife carrying scum bags on it.

The more they can do to make our public modes of transportation safer, the better.
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post #12 of 173
11/17/10 at 5:06am
Well if we are all forced to do this, then NO one should be exempted for any reason. And it will be a nightmare when EVERY single person in line has to go thru this.

And another question - when you are pulled out of line - what happens to your stuff that went thru the x-ray? Are you allowed to take it or does it sit there for others to steal????
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post #13 of 173
11/17/10 at 7:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by farleyv View Post
Flying is not a right. If you don't want to go through the security, drive, take a train, bus, whatever.

It's the human body. We are all alike. People need to get over being offended. I'd rather be offended and alive than not throughly scanned and dead.

You see the outline of the body, nothing specific. Yea, it could be embarassing. But people need to get over it. It's the way of the world now, so just get used to it.
You said exactly what I've been saying! We all have the same parts, more or less, heh, so get over it. The screener sees maybe 500 or more a day. You think he or she is going to remember you or care whether yours is big or small? This is not a sexual thing any more than getting examined by your doctor.

I'm with you. I'd rather be alive and searched rather than exempted and dead. And absolutely NO ONE should be exempted, regardless of religion, attire, or level of importance. If you are flying commercial, you get the scan. Since the known terrorists have been known to use women as suicide bombers, no race or religion or age is exempt from suspicion. Scan absolutely everyone.

If you don't like it, drive your car, take a cab, rent a limo, ride a horse, or stay home.
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post #14 of 173
11/17/10 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
And absolutely NO ONE should be exempted, regardless of religion, attire, or level of importance. If you are flying commercial, you get the scan. Since the known terrorists have been known to use women as suicide bombers, no race or religion or age is exempt from suspicion. Scan absolutely everyone.
But then those extremists could have extra reasons to cry foul. "You disrespect our religion! You disrespect our women!" blah blah wonk wonk wonk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post

If you don't like it, drive your car, take a cab, rent a limo, ride a horse, or stay home.

Post of the day!
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post #15 of 173
11/17/10 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty8723 View Post
That assumes someone like the underwear bomber was selected "randomly" for a scan. Nothing they're doing make you any more or less safe, in my opinion. It just makes you feel like you are safer.
So you would agree if everyone was scanned or patted down?
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post #16 of 173
11/17/10 at 11:14am
Or if everyone was subjected to questioning, as the Israelis do, and then those who matched the profile were searched much more thoroughly.

Three-year-old children are not carrying bombs, guns, or knives. But their parents might match the profile, which should trigger a search of them and their children.

The "Shoe Bomber" matched every profile, and yet was not searched.

I think the current rules are OK, but could be made a lot more effective with psychological and behavioral techniques. I think one very good point currently is that if you refuse the scan or the pat-down, you don't get on the airplane...but you don't get to leave, either. You WILL be more thoroughly searched before you're released. The reason is that they don't want someone "shopping" for an easier line to get through.
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post #17 of 173
11/17/10 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
You said exactly what I've been saying! We all have the same parts, more or less, heh, so get over it.
To quote a very wise teacher I had in high school: "If you've seen it before, you know what it looks like, so it shouldn't excite you. And if you haven't seen it before, you won't know what it is, so it shouldn't excite you."
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post #18 of 173
11/17/10 at 12:18pm
I'm sure I'll be "randomly" selected for this next time I fly, so I might as well decide now whether I want to be dosed with radiation or groped. I'm leaning towards groping so long as it's done by a woman, and not in public.
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post #19 of 173
11/17/10 at 12:22pm
I'm not sure if you can request male/female - if you can, that would be acceptable, but no one should be exempt for any reason.
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post #20 of 173
11/17/10 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I'm not sure if you can request male/female - if you can, that would be acceptable, but no one should be exempt for any reason.
I've gone through security scores of times at many different airports over the years, and have never had a man even run a handheld metal detector over me, let alone pat me down.
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post #21 of 173
11/17/10 at 1:59pm
It doesn't bother me, somehow I've been "patted down" by a female every single time I've been flying and the most recent time I got body scanned, because I always set off the metal detector usually by not being careful and leaving something like my phone in my pocket. It has never bothered me and I just suck it up and let them do whatever so they know I'm safe. But I can see how it might bother some people. For example if anyone has been through some sort of sexual abuse, or something of that sort might find it difficult to go through one of these searches. I really can't make up my mind about whether or not it can be seen as abuse, but I know that there is no way that there is no better way to search people without making them go through this....
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post #22 of 173
11/17/10 at 2:57pm
DH and I were SSSS'd while flying on September 11. We got the air puff scanners, and a TSA officer went through every single compartment in our bags, opened everything we had, and wiped an explosive detector thing over every single surface of everything we owned. The TSA guy told us it was completely random.

Funnily enough, we and the people behind us had Australian accents, the people in front of us has English accents, and the people in front of them were also carrying foreign passports. I mean, granted, we were foreigners travelling from the US to the Middle East on September 11, and we had to bring our flights forward a day so that we ended up travelling on that day, so we expected to have extra screening done, but we couldn't figure out why the TSA guy kept insisting it was random.

I have had the full body scan, while I was pregnant, and it didn't bother me. And Zoe only has one head I trust that the levels of radiation are just as low if not lower than other sources of radiation we expose ourselves to each day.

With the full body scan, the person looking at the scan cannot see you. They are in a separate area completely, and you have to wait with the TSA person until the person looking at the scan radios them to say you're clear. I really don't care if someone sees my outlines, and my lovely lady lumps. They can't see me, and have no idea who I am. I'd much rather that over a pat down.

I would also feel much safer knowing that everyone was getting a scan. There's so many idiots out there, and when I'm that high in the sky, with no escape, I would prefer to know that nobody has smuggled anything scary onto the plane.
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post #23 of 173
11/17/10 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahp View Post
I have had the full body scan, while I was pregnant, and it didn't bother me. And Zoe only has one head I trust that the levels of radiation are just as low if not lower than other sources of radiation we expose ourselves to each day.

With the full body scan, the person looking at the scan cannot see you. They are in a separate area completely, and you have to wait with the TSA person until the person looking at the scan radios them to say you're clear. I really don't care if someone sees my outlines, and my lovely lady lumps. They can't see me, and have no idea who I am. I'd much rather that over a pat down.

I would also feel much safer knowing that everyone was getting a scan. There's so many idiots out there, and when I'm that high in the sky, with no escape, I would prefer to know that nobody has smuggled anything scary onto the plane.
IMO this is THE quote of the day. Well said Sarah.
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post #24 of 173
11/17/10 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I'm not sure if you can request male/female - if you can, that would be acceptable, but no one should be exempt for any reason.
No male TSA gets to grope a female passenger, or vice versa. That would just be about two steps too far over the line, so that's the policy. Only same-sex agents, and in a private area.
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post #25 of 173
11/17/10 at 5:28pm
I finally got fed up with the overboard security requirements a couple years ago, and I opted for what i thought was the obvious answer; I quit flying. Apparently there are people out there that don't see it as being quite that obvious.

I only fly now for business, and we have our own plane which picks us up at our completely un-secure little back country podunk airport.
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post #26 of 173
11/17/10 at 9:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
I finally got fed up with the overboard security requirements a couple years ago, and I opted for what i thought was the obvious answer; I quit flying. Apparently there are people out there that don't see it as being quite that obvious.

I only fly now for business, and we have our own plane which picks us up at our completely un-secure little back country podunk airport.
I too do not fly...
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post #27 of 173
11/17/10 at 9:40pm
I've never been on a plane before, but I've just looked at backscatter and millimeter wave pictures. For males, all you see is outlines of their "junk." It all looks very crude - females going through these scanners look like bald Barbies. They look more like they're wearing a leotard. So in saying that, I'd much rather go through a scanner than actually be physically patted down, because that seems a lot more intrusive.
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post #28 of 173
11/17/10 at 10:16pm
I also wanted to add that the "If you touch my junk" idiot is such a moron. He went through recording with his cellphone, and being deliberately obstinate so he could get a reaction and get his 2 minutes of fame. All he's done is sounded like an idiot, and hopefully gotten himself a big ol' fine.
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post #29 of 173
11/18/10 at 3:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahp View Post
I also wanted to add that the "If you touch my junk" idiot is such a moron. He went through recording with his cellphone, and being deliberately obstinate so he could get a reaction and get his 2 minutes of fame. All he's done is sounded like an idiot, and hopefully gotten himself a big ol' fine.
I don't know about a fine, but if I heard correctly, he did NOT get to fly.
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post #30 of 173
11/18/10 at 4:52am
He will not get a fine - no reason for TSA to fine him. And he CHOSE not to fly - they gave him the option to either do the screening or leave - so he left.

They had him on the radio in person about what was said/done.


Hubby and I talked about it and we both agree if we are pulled out of line, then we would go the the full body scan rather then the more intense pat-down. Its a lot more "thorough" now - not just a quick one like was done before.
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