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Pictures of Uday and Qusay released - Page 2

post #31 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by sherral46
your right, I should not have lowered myself to that level.I just get tired of people running down our leader's when we all have things from the past that are not good. She has her opinion as I have mine. As what I said may have been unkind to her what she said was unkind to me also. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Sherral, I certainly did not mean to hurt your feelings, and I am sorry. Bush is my president, too, and I simply do not have any respect for him or the vast majority of the people he has appointed to run the country, because they show no respect for the rest of the world or the environment. I would be guilty of blind patriotism were I not to question his motives and credibility, because there has been far too much deceit regarding the reasons for and the costs of this war. Yes, I think it is wonderful that Saddam has been ousted, but I question that old adage, "The ends justify the means". I personally think that the government should be totally accountable to its citizens, and I am not seeing that in this case. In other countries, a vote of confidence could settle the issue, but that does not exist in the U.S., only the impeachment process.
post #32 of 50
One of the reports that I read said that the teenaged boy was the last holdout and went down shooting.

I have to agree with the Marine who stated, "He ceases to be a kid, when he fires a gun at me."

It appears that the people in the house were given every opportunity to surrender peacefully. After the initial order to surrender, the owner, his wife and four daughters exited and were taken into custody. Prior to entering the building, soldiers fanned out through the neighborhood and evacuated nearby civilians.

This raid does not appear to have been conducted willy-nilly. When people shoot at you, after being given the chance to surrender, they lose the right to any considerations.

SOME lucky Iraqi has hit the jackpot: $15 million apiece, for these bits of pond scum.
post #33 of 50
Was the boy actually identified as Qusay's son? You're right - somebody got very lucky, and I hope somebody else will get luckier and collect the reward on Saddam's head!
post #34 of 50
I have not heard a confirmation as of yet, to the identity of the young man. I've heard a couple of different things.

It seems the noose is tightening around Saddam's neck. I just heard they did a raid in Tikrit and have just captured 13 members of Saddam's regime. 6 of which are his personal security team.
post #35 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by mzjazz2u
Being married to an Iraqi, having family in Iraq and knowing hundreds of Iraqi's I know that the U.S. government did what they absolutely had to do as far as showing the pictures. You have no idea the strong hold Saddam's regime has on these people. My own husband spent 3 years in one of their torture prisons. The Iraqi people absolutely need those pictures. Even the ones living safely in other countries. I wish you could hear some of the stories I have heard from so many Iraqi's.

We've talked to many family members in Iraq the last couple of weeks. It's the first time we've been able to talk to any of them except for one cousin in Baghdad. Everyone in the south says things are very good and life is better then before. The relatives in the north say the same. The cousin in Baghdad says things are improving quickly now except for the (very) few idiots trying to ruin things by attacking the American soldiers.

Did anyone else hear the crazy stuff coming out of Germany?? They're saying the U.S. government pretty much staged 9/11. How ridiculous is that? VERY!

Ma Salaama!
Well, I would say this post says it all. Someone in this thread addressed the issue of why don't the Iraqis' have running water, electricity, etc. Are you sure of your facts? I mean, you can't believe everything you read in the paper thats for sure.

And for the record, I support Bush 100%. He is a good man, with good intentions. Sure, perhaps he may have made mistakes, but the final outcome was the correct one. The Iraqi people are free from a horrible dictatorship, and they have a chance now to govern themselves. As far as the WMD, they'll be found. I'm sure of it.
post #36 of 50
Now the media are showing videotapes of the bodies, so I suppose there was some concern that people would think that the pictures were manipulated. Tybalt, it might very well be that they'll have to put Saddam's body on public display. I'm assuming that he will be found and won't be captured alive. It sounds barbaric, but just remember how Europeans, in particular European Jews, really needed to know for sure that Nazi leaders and henchmen were either dead, or had been brought to justice, and how traumatic it has been for Ugandans and Chileans to know that Idi Amin and Pinochet escaped their just desserts.
post #37 of 50
Americans objected to photos of dead soldiers being made public. The Hussein brothers were not soldiers.
post #38 of 50
In response to the comment about electricity and running water: power plants and water pumping stations are being sabotaged, by holdouts. Engineering units and NGOs are doing their darndedest to restore and keep the infrastructure functioning.
post #39 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by adymarie
I never believed in this war in the 1st place - there is a larger threat that should have been dealt with 1st - N. Korea. IMO, the USA is picking their fights based on what they thought they could win. Will the Saddam regime was horrid, it was, for the most part, confined to the 1 country. In N. Korea there is proof of them being a nuclear power - they have flaunted it and said that they aren't afraid to use it. Why not go after them.

IMO the pictures were in bad taste. Especially after the US gov't objected so strongly about showing the pics of dead US troops - contrevention on the Geneva Convention - they have just done the same thing, but in a more graphic manner. IMO they should have let some people of importance in Iraq that the Iraqi people trust examine the bodies and have them make statements. Has this been done, or have Coalition forces been the only ones to see the bodies.
Ba'ath party members who have been captured have seen the bodies. But that's it and there is about 89% of the Iraqi population that would never believe them. I still think they should let the Shi'a clerics veiw the bodies and all the forensic eveidence and they can go to the public. That would work.

I think there is a little difference between showing dead soldiers with blood running out of their heads and Iraqi's kicking them and disrespecting the bodies versus the pictures that were shown of the two criminals/human rights violators. It is a fine line though. And I dissagree that the pics of the American's weren't as graphic. The video is very graphic and disturbing. Especially with the Iraqi's kicking, poking and grinning from ear to ear.

And with all due respect, who cares if Saddam was confined to one country? Tell that to my husband who hasn't seen his family in almost 15 years!He's never even been allowed to play with his own children! Or to the female teacher who was taken and beheaded for refusing to talk her husband into returning to Iraq and they hung her head on her families front door jam as an example. Or to my husband friend who refused to confess to false charges and watched his mother, sisters and wife be abused, beaten and raped by thugs of Uday.

Where I agree with you is I think Bush should have picked his battles a little wiser and prioritized differently. N. Korea and Palestine/Israel should have been higher priority. But I'm glad Saddam has been over thrown. I've seen the suffereing first hand and spent many nights watching my husband cry his self to sleep.
post #40 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by mzjazz2u
I've seen the suffereing first hand and spent many nights watching my husband cry his self to sleep.
wow, your post gave me chills. thank you for your very unique perspective on this discussion.
post #41 of 50
Quote:
And for the record, I support Bush 100%. He is a good man, with good intentions. Sure, perhaps he may have made mistakes, but the final outcome was the correct one. The Iraqi people are free from a horrible dictatorship, and they have a chance now to govern themselves. As far as the WMD, they'll be found. I'm sure of it.
I was trying to find words for my feelings on this matter but dtolle said it first.

IMO
post #42 of 50
Quote:
Americans objected to photos of dead soldiers being made public. The Hussein brothers were not soldiers.
Technically speaking, they were military leaders. One of the brothers, if I recall correctly, was in charge of the training of the Iraqi elite forces. In my book, that makes him a soldier. President Bush is no longer in boots either, yet he is in every soldier's chain of command, and is every soldier's Commander in Chief. By virture of his office, he is also a soldier. He may fight from behind a desk, but he's still in the fight.

I agree with showing the pictures of the dead men. I'm sure it was a tough call. U.S leadership would be damned if they did and damned if they didn't. If the Iraqi people need to see those pictures in order for them to be able to move on in a productive manner, then the Iraqi people should see the pictures.

The brothers, in my opinion, are not subjected to the laws of warfare as they did not fight by the laws of warfare. They were criminals through and through. When the Iraqi leaders aired footage of American POWs they did so to humiliate those soldiers, and weaken the resolve of the coalition forces. There's nothing worse in the world to a soldier in combat than the fear of capture and torture.

The Hussein brother's were already dead. The object of airing their pictures was not to degrade and humiliate a nation, but to make it strong again. The proof is in the puddin'......

I would also like to add, that from this soldier's perspective, Bush rocks!


Just an IMO from a retired soldier.
post #43 of 50
I read in this morning's paper, that tribal members buried the Devil's spawn and accorded them a martyrs' funeral. Hope they saved a spot, for Daddykins.

I can't believe that interview, with Saddam's daughters. "He is a a kind, wonderful father." He MURDERED both of their husbands!
post #44 of 50
All I have to say is.....with a $25,000,000 bounty on Saddam It won't be long before someone snitches him out and he will be in one of our soldiers guns bullseye. He will get bored of life as a mole.
post #45 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by katl8e
I read in this morning's paper, that tribal members buried the Devil's spawn and accorded them a martyrs' funeral. Hope they saved a spot, for Daddykins.

I can't believe that interview, with Saddam's daughters. "He is a a kind, wonderful father." He MURDERED both of their husbands!
My thought on the daughters is that their escape to Jordan and those interviews is a set up. Probably daddy dearest planned it all out for them as a sympathy ploy for him and his regime. I think the U.S. should have taken the daughters as prisoners as a carrot to reel Saddam in. But that's just my humble opinion!
post #46 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by airprincess
wow, your post gave me chills. thank you for your very unique perspective on this discussion.
You know what bothers me the most? That no one cares what the majority of Iraqi's think about the war and the over throwing of Saddam. No one cares that it is what the majority wanted. And the thing that really pi**&% me off is the media's negative spin. Why do they stay right around Baghdad and report all the bad stuff?? Of course Baghdad is going to be a hot spot. And even then, it's not as bad as the media makes it out to be (from what I've heard from people over there). We know quite a few people that went over there working as interpreters for the U.S. government.

My best friend is married to an Iraqi also. His sister has lived in Kuwait since dessert storm. She was finally able to go to Iraq to visit her family and ended up leaving her cell phone with them (forgive me if I've already mentioned this). Her, and the rest of the family said things are better then they've been in over 20 years down in Basrah and Nassryia, Najaf etc. And when my hubby's family finally called they said the same. Why doesn't the media report that?? Because bad stuff and the misfortune of others has higher ratings.!

As far as the power and water. In the south and north they have more power and much better quality water then they've had since before dessert storm. Baghdad has to give up a little so that things are more evenly divided. So the south of Iraq has power the same amount of time as the Baghdad area. Prior to this war, the south might only have power 3 hours a day. That was part of the repression of the people.

As American's, I believe we need to start making it known that we want to hear all of the news. Including the positive things that happen. We deserve to know the whole story.
post #47 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by mzjazz2u
My thought on the daughters is that their escape to Jordan and those interviews is a set up. Probably daddy dearest planned it all out for them as a sympathy ploy for him and his regime. I think the U.S. should have taken the daughters as prisoners as a carrot to reel Saddam in. But that's just my humble opinion!
Yeah but why take his daughters? He is a mass murderer....why should innocent people suffer because they happened to be unfortunate enough to be his offspring? I seriously doubt that taking his daughters would get any foot hold on this maniac. He cares about himself, "POWER" and who he can "CONTROL" only. Shooting him in the head with the "spaminator assault rifle" would be far too good for him....LOL
post #48 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by mzjazz2u
You know what bothers me the most? That no one cares what the majority of Iraqi's think about the war and the over throwing of Saddam.

I care, I just don't know where to find this information, which is why I find your posts on this subject so interesting and enlightening.
post #49 of 50
Holding Saddam's daughters hostage would not bring him out of his hole. If he cared about them, would he have murdered their husbands? Of course, the husbands couldn't have been too bright - first, they married into that family and after defecting, believed Saddam's assurances that they would suffer no repercussions if they returned.
post #50 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by airprincess
I care, I just don't know where to find this information, which is why I find your posts on this subject so interesting and enlightening.
Thanks! I was really pretty much talking about the press and how they present things to us! I think there are many people, such as yourself. Some that care may not realize there is another perspective out there! The Iraqi Perspective!

Hubby and I are seperated right now but trying to work on things or at least be friends. He came over last night and we talked again about him going to Iraq. He would love to go for 5 - 6 months. But I'm afraid he wont be ready for what he finds. Life goes on and his childern don't know him. I'm afraid his heart would be broken once again. And he does have a very tender one.

My husband is still having a hard time believing Uday and Qusay are dead. One minute he talks like they are and the next he questions it. It's impossible for most people to imagine the kind of hold this evil family has had on millions of people. I know it baffles me sometimes! But the more stories I hear from the Iraqi's I am involved with, the more I understand.

I remember a friend of my husbands telling me how he was a messenger when they were in the refugee camp in Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's hate Iraqi's and especially the shi'ite (which is what the refugees are). This friend would gather letters, money, cassette tapes and take them to Iraq by night. He'd have to leave at night and be careful so that the Saudi soldiers didn't see him (the'd kill him). Then just before dawn he would dig a hole in the sand and burry himself until nightfall, when he would travel again. He'd spend 1-3 months in Iraq delivering messages to his friend's loved ones. The whole time he'd have to hide and take care not to get caught because he would be tortured and killed. After all... he was a traitor to Saddam Hussein. I just can't help thinking, how amazing and resiliant these people are. And what a terrible way to have to live!

Thanks for listening to me. It is theraputic for me too. My life has been sort of black since 9/11 and I've struggled with many things. Don't get me wrong, I love my country and thank God every day I live here.
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