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Are you ready for your tax hike?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Yes, you're going to get one on January 1, as things stand now. Unless Congress acts (and I would put good odds on them doing so), all income taxes go back to what they were before the "Bush tax cuts" took effect. For a fairly average family, that will be something like $200 per month.

Here's the deal. All those tax cuts were "temporary." They had to be made permanent later, and the Republicans assumed they'd be able to do that late in President Bush's second term. Unfortunately, they had an experience in 2006 much like the Democrats just had, and they were never able to pass the legislation.

What does this mean to you? Well, even if you're currently paying no income tax, you may start seeing federal income tax withheld from your paycheck starting Jan. 1. Under the Bush tax cuts, some 4,000,000 taxpayers were removed from the tax rolls. In fact, 50% of all families in the U.S. currently pay no income tax.

The deal is that the withholding charts required to be used by employers on Jan 1 will be the same as they were before those tax cuts, and they are already going out to employers. That means that everyone will move up a bit in the percentage required to be withheld. Now, Congress may pass a bill before Dec 31, but there won't be time to print new withholding charts. There may be some adjustment to those charts to make up for the initial high withholding, but there's no guarantee of that.

So, if you're currently in the 10% tax bracket created by that bill, you will now be in the 15% tax bracket.

If you are currently getting the $1,000 per child earned income tax credit, you will only get $500.

The "marriage penalty" will come back.

The personal exemption and many deductions will also change.

And I thought those tax cuts were all about the wealthy!
post #2 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
And I thought those tax cuts were all about the wealthy!
It is about the wealthy. The proposal was on the table to extend the tax cuts for individual making less than $200,000 and couples less than $250,00. This would have extended the Bush tax cuts for 97% of the nation. It was blocked because some in congress thought it important to preserve the tax cuts for the wealthiest 3%. It is another classic case of the people in the US that can least afford to be affected by political nonsense and non action are going to be hurt.

Even if congress acts now it is still a mess. You are absolutely right. The largest payroll companies have to start imputing the 2011 tax rates now into their software systems. It is not like they can stop on a dime and change these things. And right now they have to imput what will be law on January 1, 2011.
post #3 of 21
yay! I'm going to be unemployed after the first of the year so I don't have to worry about this at all!!

*insert sarcasm here*
post #4 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by peachytoday View Post
It is about the wealthy. The proposal was on the table to extend the tax cuts for individual making less than $200,000 and couples less than $250,00. This would have extended the Bush tax cuts for 97% of the nation. It was blocked because some in congress thought it important to preserve the tax cuts for the wealthiest 3%. It is another classic case of the people in the US that can least afford to be affected by political nonsense and non action are going to be hurt.
Exactly right. Obama has stated repeatedly that he wants to eliminate the tax cuts only for the wealthy. It's been stalled because the GOP wants to keep the Bush tax cuts in place for everyone. The argument for keeping them is that they will stimulate jobs. These cuts have been in place for 10 years and I'm sorry, but they failed to do that in the last 10 years, so why would they magically cause this effect now?

The argument for eliminating them for the wealthy is that the deficit would increase by 4 trillion dollars over a period of time. If the Tea Party and the GOP are so keen on balancing the deficit, how could they possible argue in favor of keeping tax cuts for the wealthy?

Until I was laid off, I made a very decent wage. Even though it fell way short of the $250,000 cut off, I could easily have afforded increased taxes. The extra money didn't cause me to spend more money, I simply socked it away for retirement, something that doesn't really stimulate the economy. People with far greater incomes than I might have had to do things like cut back a little bit on their stock investments. It doesn't stimulate the economy.

I see this as simply another "the sky is falling" issue being pushed by the GOP.

And btw, even if the tax cuts were eliminated for lower wage earners, they could be offset by the tax cuts already implemented in the last 2 years. 95% of the country has already received tax cuts and most people are completely unaware of this fact.
post #5 of 21
American has been in debt for decades that would have had an individual citizen evicted 30 years ago...going to have to start paying the bills somehow.
post #6 of 21
Yeah taxes...*extreme sarcasm*

I get so confused when it comes down to tax season..H&R Block has become my best friend. The only thing Ive been doing differently this year is saving all the receipts from tool purchases since Bf has had to restock his tool supply for work. I have no clue what in the world that means but I just plan on taking the pile in and saying heres what he spent on tools for work. Its a good chunk of change too.


I honestly didnt even know we had a tax cut because when I filled out my w-2 I always just put 0 to have the maximum amount taken out in hopes that I got a good check come tax season, plus I didnt want to end up having to pay out of pocket for anything.
post #7 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by peachytoday View Post
Even if congress acts now it is still a mess. You are absolutely right. The largest payroll companies have to start imputing the 2011 tax rates now into their software systems. It is not like they can stop on a dime and change these things. And right now they have to imput what will be law on January 1, 2011.
Sad. Fortunately I think they're required to put all laws on the irs.gov website. For fast answers they have a slew of toll-free numbers but I would opt for the website because when something's in writing, it's proof. Spoken words are hard to prove.

Quote:
Business and Specialty Tax Line
800-829-4933
For Small Businesses, Corporations, Partnerships and Trusts who need information and/or help related to their Business Returns or Business (BMF) Accounts. Services cover Employer Identification Numbers (EINs), 94x returns, 1041, 1065, 1120S, Excise Returns, Estate and Gift Returns, as well as issues related to Federal tax deposits.
Many more IRS toll-free numbers at http://www.centrevilletaxservice.com...freenumber.pdf (This link is in .PDF format)

Here are a few:

Quote:
IRS Tax Help Line for Individuals
800-829-1040
For individual and joint filers who need procedural or tax law information and/or help to file their 1040-type individual returns (including Schedules C and E); and, general account information for Form 1040 Filers. Automated Self-Service Interactive Applications are offered on this line.

Refund Hotline
800-829-1954
For 1040-type individual and Joint Filers who need to check the status of their current year refund. Automated Refund Self-Service Interactive Applications are offered on this line

Forms and Publications
800-829-3676
For individuals, businesses and tax practitioners who need IRS tax forms, instructions and related materials and tax publications.
post #8 of 21
Get ready for high estate taxes, too. After 2010, American parents who worked hard all their lives and saved a little money (or assets) will not be able to leave it all to their kids when they die. The government will be getting about 50% first.

The U.S. is one of the only countries left with an estate tax (also called death or inheritance tax). Most countries realize that money that parents leave to their kids has already been taxed and taxes paid, so an estate tax is DOUBLE TAXATION. Of course, if you or your parents are loaded and can afford a good estate attorney, there are all kinds of ways to legally avoid inheritance taxes.

But if you are one of the millions of Americans who just wants to leave what you've worked for to your kids, they are not going to get very much after the government takes its cut.
post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampWitch View Post
The U.S. is one of the only countries left with an estate tax (also called death or inheritance tax). Most countries realize that money that parents leave to their kids has already been taxed and taxes paid, so an estate tax is DOUBLE TAXATION. Of course, if you or your parents are loaded and can afford a good estate attorney, there are all kinds of ways to legally avoid inheritance taxes.
I don't think this statement is correct. I remember paying an inheritance tax in Germany myself. Based on the information in this survey of European countries, most DO have an inheritance tax.
Quote:
The objective of the Inheritance Tax survey is to compare the levels of inheritance tax payable in different European countries. The results for 2005 show some substantial differences, from an effective tax rate of 17% in Greece to no tax at all in a group of countries including Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Portugal, Sweden and Switzerland.
http://www.agn-europe.org/htm/firm/n...cle%202005.pdf
post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampWitch View Post
Get ready for high estate taxes, too. After 2010, American parents who worked hard all their lives and saved a little money (or assets) will not be able to leave it all to their kids when they die. The government will be getting about 50% first.(
Little money? At the preBush rates you got an exemption of $1,000,000 as well as other deductions that can be taken. This is for singles, for couples there are other rules that come into play. The 50% tax rate does not hit until you have another $2,000,000 in money or assets. So you would have to have an estate valued at over $3,000,000 to get that rate. And if your estate is a house you got tax breaks for all the mortgage interest. If part of your estate is your retirement funds odds are you put that money in your account pretax anyway. There are problems with the estate tax for family owed farms which should be taken into account. It is not a perfect system. It is estimated that if the estate tax is reinstated, in 2012 108,000 estate tax returns will be filed and of those approximately 44,000 will have to pay tax. Not many Americans certainly not the millions that is being claimed.

What I find most amazing about the estate tax is how many people get on that bandwagon that will never have to pay it and nothing is said about the AMT tax. The AMT is projected to affect tens of millions of middle class americans. But nothing is ever said about extending the higher exemption or even idexing it for inflation.
post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 
Estate taxes are hard to compare, because you have to not only compare rates, but trigger points.

A Comparison of Estate Taxes by Countries

That is from 1999, but it will be the effective rate if no tax cut extension is passed.

You have to have a fair amount of money before they're triggered. And it should be pointed out most of the wealthiest Americans pay no estate taxes; they've put their wealth into trusts that are exempt. For example, so far as I can find out, no Kennedy of the last two generations has had to pay an estate tax.

It's interesting that Canada has no estate tax.

My bet would be that, much like the "luxury tax" on yachts passed by the Clinton administration, the estate tax doesn't actually collect much money, because people have found ways of avoiding it. As near as I can tell, estate taxes added up to every penny earned by every American for approximately 12 hours in 2009. (That number comes from the calculation for "Tax Freedom Day.")
post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampWitch
Get ready for high estate taxes, too. After 2010, American parents who worked hard all their lives and saved a little money (or assets) will not be able to leave it all to their kids when they die. The government will be getting about 50% first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
Estate taxes are hard to compare, because you have to not only compare rates, but trigger points.

A Comparison of Estate Taxes by Countries
If you scroll down through this link, you'll see that the trigger point in the U.S. is $3,000,000. So what this tells me is that for the parents that worked hard all their lives and saved a little money wouldn't be affected at all. I've heard that only the top 2% of the rich actually pay into this tax. The fear of the death tax has been hyped for years by the very wealthy people in this country who can afford to pay politicians to work on their behalf.
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momofmany View Post
If you scroll down through this link, you'll see that the trigger point in the U.S. is $3,000,000. So what this tells me is that for the parents that worked hard all their lives and saved a little money wouldn't be affected at all. I've heard that only the top 2% of the rich actually pay into this tax. The fear of the death tax has been hyped for years by the very wealthy people in this country who can afford to pay politicians to work on their behalf.
The link you refer to is dated, it's for 2009. I was talking about what's going to happen in 2 months, in 2011 and beyond.

This year (2010), there is NO estate tax in the U.S. Zero. Anybody dying this year will be able to leave 100% to their heirs, with no federal inheritance tax.

In 2009, the ceiling was $3.5 million, and in 2011 it will (probably-noone knows for sure yet) be $1M.

When you include the homestead, a 401K or other retirement account, and savings, it's very easy to reach the one million mark.

Retirees know they need AT LEAST $1M to retire comfortably, $500 to live "okay" for the rest of their days. Anyone who retires with less than that is going to need help from someone or to be on some kind of pension or government assistance, so probably not much of an inheritance there.

I've been working with two estate lawyers and an accountant for the last year since my dad died and left a huge mess and we've been talking about all of this stuff a lot.
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momofmany View Post
If you scroll down through this link, you'll see that the trigger point in the U.S. is $3,000,000. So what this tells me is that for the parents that worked hard all their lives and saved a little money wouldn't be affected at all. I've heard that only the top 2% of the rich actually pay into this tax. The fear of the death tax has been hyped for years by the very wealthy people in this country who can afford to pay politicians to work on their behalf.
It depends on what state you live in. My sister just had to pay estate tax on a bank account that was about $150. Seriously. And my aunt is being harassing for $400 they claim she still owes on a bank account that was under $100,000. She already paid what she owed, and they're still harassing her. My guess is the weathly have ways to get around paying the tax and its people like my family who get screwed.
post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty8723 View Post
It depends on what state you live in. My sister just had to pay estate tax on a bank account that was about $150. Seriously. And my aunt is being harassing for $400 they claim she still owes on a bank account that was under $100,000. She already paid what she owed, and they're still harassing her. My guess is the weathly have ways to get around paying the tax and its people like my family who get screwed.
You're talking about state taxes, though, we've been talking about federal; State taxes are in addition to the federal ones. (Some states like Texas don't have a state tax at all).

There shouldn't be an inheritance tax at all, IMO, federal or state. When a home is bought, the taxes are paid, there shouldn't be more taxes after death; any income earned has already been taxed. It's not fair to tax it again after it's been saved.
post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
I don't think this statement is correct. I remember paying an inheritance tax in Germany myself. Based on the information in this survey of European countries, most DO have an inheritance tax.


http://www.agn-europe.org/htm/firm/n...cle%202005.pdf
That's from 2005. Here's the current one for 2010:
http://www.agn-europe.org/htm/firm/n...cle%202010.pdf
and the EU countries will probably start phasing out inheritance taxes, just when the U.S. is increasing them.

Here's some (current) info on estate taxes, scroll down to "tenative tax" for 2011. Not just for the rich!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_..._United_States

Anyway, I didn't mean to sidetrack the thread from income taxes.
post #17 of 21
Thread Starter 
Have you seen the news today about the recommendations from the Budget Deficit Reduction Committee? Some very interesting ideas, but really no big solutions to our biggest budget problems. That is Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid essentially use 100% of all the annual income tax revenues. Everything else, we have to borrow for.
post #18 of 21
SW I found an interesting tidbit in that wiki article. I agree with you that money should not be taxed twice. However there is a way to sneak income past the IRS if there is no inheritance tax and that has to do with unrealized capital gains. If the decedent has wealth in the form of stock and that stock is transferred to the beneficiary, the cost basis is the value at the time of transfer. That is really nice for those cases when Dad bought stocks in 1953 at <$1 a share that are now worth $50 / share. When you sell, you use your cost basis and not the actual cost from way back when. So those capital gains are lost.

Not so with trusts. They may be tax exempt as far as inhertiance goes, but the cost basis does not step up. You have to use the actual cost basis and that means you get stuck with huge capital gains if there are any.

Just an FYI I was executrix for my mother about 15 years ago and my father died recently leaving a trust - it's not as simple as it may sound on the face of it.
post #19 of 21
Thread Starter 
I think the biggest problem is the family business or farm. When I worked on a ranch in Colorado, I knew many people who were cash poor but land rich. The family I worked for had 2,000 acres of what they considered pretty good $50/acre land. They sold off one pasture for development at $500 per acre, and the developer re-sold parcels of a minimum of 8 acres for $1,000-1,500 per acre. That made the remaining 1500 acres worth nearly $2,000,000. When the father died, they had to sell off nearly half the ranch to pay the estate taxes, and it essentially killed the ranch.
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampWitch View Post
You're talking about state taxes, though, we've been talking about federal; State taxes are in addition to the federal ones. (Some states like Texas don't have a state tax at all).

There shouldn't be an inheritance tax at all, IMO, federal or state. When a home is bought, the taxes are paid, there shouldn't be more taxes after death; any income earned has already been taxed. It's not fair to tax it again after it's been saved.
Its not a state tax, its an inheritance tax. PA has a state tax, City tax, Federal tax, and this is separate.
post #21 of 21
Thread Starter 
While Texas does not have a state income tax, it DOES have a state inheritance tax. Or, more accurately, it did until the U.S. dropped the inheritance tax, and it will again if the inheritance tax is reinstated.

This was at the root of the big lawsuit over where Howard Hughes died. Texas wanted that inheritance tax!

By the way, the federal inheritance tax is reduced by the amount paid to any state.
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