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Our male cat sprays everywhere, doesn't get along with other cats. Need help!

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Hi all! This is my first post here, and like many others, I've become exasperated with the behaviour of one of my cats, who sprays incessantly. I've followed all of the recommendations in the stickied thread but none of them have worked. Here are some details.

I have two cats, a male and a female, that get along just fine. Two years ago I moved in with my girlfriend, who also has two cats. These are also a male and a female, although they tend to fight. The problem we have is with her male cat, a Persian named Ash. When we first moved in together, he sprayed everywhere, constantly. On the floor, in corners, on the wall, on the bookcases (ruining some of our books, DVDs and video games), on furniture, pretty much everywhere. He would often do it right in front of us, too! They were not accidents.

We got him checked out at the vet, but other than some crystals in his bladder, which we treated with medications, everything was OK. When we got some new furniture, we bought some Feliway plug-in dispensers and put them over the house, and kept them up for a few months. At this point he stopped for about a year, but started up again after that. We tried plugging in the Feliway again, but it didn't affect anything this time. We took him to the vet again, and they put him on a small dosage of Buspar. We kept that up for a month and that had no effect. The vet told us that the next (and only) step would be to take him to a behaviorist. We made an appointment, but the cost is astronomical - $400 for a single visit ($500 if they make a house call)! We can't afford that, especially if it doesn't work! This is compounded by the fact that we just moved to a new apartment and are still unpacking, and he's started spraying a lot more than usual, as we expected.

We have three litter boxes in different parts of our apartment. We also have a gigantic attic where each of the cats can have their own space. But the pheremones didn't work, the medication didn't work, the clean-up spray that's supposed to make sure they don't re-soil doesn't work. We can't urine-proof specific areas because he targets everything!

There are numerous other issues which seem intertwined. This cat, for example, is always harassing the other three cats. In particular, he likes to chase down the females and start licking their butts. One of them will take a swipe at him, the other just runs away. He usually just chases them or runs away but he does this constantly. He occasionally tries to start up fights with the other male cat, although those don't amount to anything. He seems very awkwardly socialized and does not get along with any of them. My girlfriend attributes this to him hanging around dogs all of them when he was growing up. He was spayed but he doesn't seem to act like it.

He is also completely obsessed with my girlfriend. He follows her literally everywhere, and he is always crying for her attention. We close the doors at night and he will often start crying outside the door, to the point where we had to lock him up in another room at night to get some sleep. His tail is always shivering and he always seems extremely tense. He is generally friendly but also very overbearing, especially compared to the other cats, who are much more independent.

So, like many others, we are being driven up the walls, and the price for a professional as suggested is just not affordable, especially if it takes multiple visits. Does anyone else have any more suggestions? The last last resort would be to give him away, but my girlfriend loves him a like a child, in spite of all of this, and I have a weakness for the little bugger too. Any help would be much appreciated.
post #2 of 24
Do you know how old he was when he was neutered? Not that it'll help, just curious.

There are other medications other than Buspar. They all work in different ways so it's worth trying the others. Some are "girly" hormones and some are antidepressants.

It could also be a hormonal imbalance. I'd ask the vet about that possibility.

Just as a note--though it might not make any difference--is that the recommended number of litterboxes is one per cat plus one extra. So adding another couple litterboxes wouldn't hurt.
post #3 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willowy View Post
Do you know how old he was when he was neutered? Not that it'll help, just curious.
It does sort of matter. If he was neutered after reaching adulthood, that could explain why he's able to spray.
post #4 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rad65 View Post
It does sort of matter. If he was neutered after reaching adulthood, that could explain why he's able to spray.
Of course it matters. . .it just won't be of any help NOW. And early neuters are just as ABLE to spray, they generally don't because they never had any hormonal thoughts to make them spray, but physically they're just as capable.
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willowy View Post
Do you know how old he was when he was neutered? Not that it'll help, just curious.

There are other medications other than Buspar. They all work in different ways so it's worth trying the others. Some are "girly" hormones and some are antidepressants.

It could also be a hormonal imbalance. I'd ask the vet about that possibility.
Roughly a year or so, estimated. Given the way he acts we almost suspect that it was done wrong or something, if that's possible.

Are there any other medications you guys would recommend? The vet initially said that after Buspar there was no other choice than taking to a behaviorist (or giving him away, which isn't happening) but we could try to convince her otherwise.

Other details: He was rescued as a kitten after being tossed out of a window of a car with two broken legs. He's had a traumatic past, which I'm sure explains his behavior a bit. Also, before we moved in together, my girlfriend left her cats behind to live in China for two years. When she came back, that's when he started getting really overbearing and whiny, and hasn't stopped since. He probably has abandonment issues, too.

We'll probably get an extra litter box or two, but he still uses it normally in addition to the spraying, so we think he's probably trying to communicate something else. What that is, who knows!

Thanks for your suggestions!
post #6 of 24
I can't think of the name, but it's used commonly in the UK, because they usually neuter their cats later over there, and it makes the late neutered boys forget their hormones, LOL. It's similar to Depo-Provera, I think. Maybe a UK member can jump in with the name. It's probably not readily available in the US but maybe your vet can order it or something.
post #7 of 24
Hate to suggest it but maybe he would just be happiest living as the only cat in the house... I know its hard to say, but he fights with the others, marks his territory, etc. As much as I would miss my cat, I would rather it be happy in the right home then on all sorts of medication and under all that stress in mine.

Just a thought
post #8 of 24
Perhaps. . .but considering it's nearly impossible to place an adult cat even under the best circumstances, and nobody will want a cat who sprays, I doubt that's a viable option.
post #9 of 24
Do you have access to Feliway?>?

how were the cats introduced?
post #10 of 24
Thread Starter 
Yeah, Feliway worked the first time, not the second time. We're still gonna dig up our plug-ins and buy a few months worth of bottles, because it certainly couldn't hurt.

Unfortunately the places we live in aren't really big enough to properly "introduce" cats like all of the guides say. We can't give them their own areas because they're simply too small and no way to contain them - we would have to lock them in a bedroom for a couple of weeks because that's about all we have, outside of a living room. This is the by-product of living in NJ where space comes at a premium. At our new place we do have a fairly large attic that, while open, at least gives the cats a large room to play around in.

I should note that our problem child ends up fighting the most with the cat that he grew up with, not mine. As for mine, one he just leaves alone because he's 3 times his size, the other one usually just scurries away.
post #11 of 24
Did you have him when he was neutered? Or did you get him afterward? Th reason i am asking is sometimes the other testicle doesn't descend and vets may clip only one- leaving the other one up and intact.

But spraying isn't a mating issue- it is a territorial response. You have a small place with four cats. He is clearly the alpha and he is spraying to keep his territory intact. It could be he is warning the other cats, or simply stressed over something and smelling his mark in the house calms him down.

I strongly recommend Cat Wrangling 101 by Dusty Rainbolt. it is a great book for multi-cat families. If you can PM me your town/state I can direct you to a cat behaviorist that will have substantially cheaper rates and be very effective.

www.harpofhope.com is another option for something to keep the kitties calm.

Is there anyway you can get him an outside enclosure where he can stay?
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hissy View Post
Did you have him when he was neutered? Or did you get him afterward? Th reason i am asking is sometimes the other testicle doesn't descend and vets may clip only one- leaving the other one up and intact.

But spraying isn't a mating issue- it is a territorial response. You have a small place with four cats. He is clearly the alpha and he is spraying to keep his territory intact. It could be he is warning the other cats, or simply stressed over something and smelling his mark in the house calms him down.
My girlfriend did, she wasn't entirely sure of his age despite him being a kitten. He's actually a runt - he's super skinny and weighs about 6 pounds, compared to my male cat, who's 18 pounds (and also our most well adjusted cat). The small one sort of wishes he was the alpha, anyway.
post #13 of 24
I had the same problem. Did everything by "the book". I reluctantly had to give him away. He was a stray and I guess that's wear my problem started.

He also was fighting with my runt boy really badly. Yet he LOVED my other cats. He just had a vendetta against this one.

Now that he's gone...the one who was bullied has taken on the one I gave away's bad behavior traits. Almost like "HA! your gone..TAKE THIS! I'M MARKING THIS NOW! MINE!"

Kill me!! I am torn now on what to do!!

Good luck!!!!
post #14 of 24
It might not help much at this point, but it's worth a try. I had two castrated male cats carrying on a contest "through" a window, and a breeder who'd accidently discovered it worked suggested putting basil plants where they were spraying. We planted some outside the window and put pots of basil inside on the windowsill, and both cats stopped. We're now using it in strategic spots to prevent neighborhood cats from spraying in the yard.

Perhaps you could puts pots of it in the worst-affected areas. If I were you I'd try confining the offender to a bathroom or bedroom with everything he needs until he's consistently using only his litter box, and then go about gradually re-introducing him to the household.

Is there a reason why he's locked out of the bedroom at night? He might stop the crying and calm down if you allow him to sleep with you.
post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
Is there a reason why he's locked out of the bedroom at night? He might stop the crying and calm down if you allow him to sleep with you.
Well, he's pretty well behaved, but then the other cats start coming in and starting hissing fights. If it was just him we probably wouldn't have a problem.

Will try the basil plants, though. Thanks!
post #16 of 24
Quote:
We got him checked out at the vet, but other than some crystals in his bladder, which we treated with medications,
There is no medication that treats crystals in the urine. Crystals are controlled with diet. It is my opinion this cat has pain while urinating so goes in other places trying to get away from the pain.

Please get this cat to a vet who will do a thorough exam with a urine culture. A urinalysis is not enough, a culture should be done.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowmiss View Post
I had the same problem. Did everything by "the book". I reluctantly had to give him away. He was a stray and I guess that's wear my problem started.

He also was fighting with my runt boy really badly. Yet he LOVED my other cats. He just had a vendetta against this one.

Now that he's gone...the one who was bullied has taken on the one I gave away's bad behavior traits. Almost like "HA! your gone..TAKE THIS! I'M MARKING THIS NOW! MINE!"

Kill me!! I am torn now on what to do!!

Good luck!!!!
I'm sorry to hear that you passed that kitty and his problems on to someone else, I hope he didn't end up back out on the street.

I recommend you take THIS one to the vet. Stress can cause urinary tract infections and imbalances that can bring on crystals. Please get your cat in for a urinalysis and urine culture.
post #18 of 24
Thread Starter 
I was actually mistaken - we did actually put him on special food for the urine crystals. Unfortunately we were only able to do it for a few months, mostly for cost reasons. The food was quite expensive and it was difficult to make sure the other cats didn't eat it.

Anyway, my girlfriend went ahead and went with the expensive behaviorist, who visited our house and recommended a plan of action. I might as well post about some of this in hopes it can help someone else.

First we had to section off part of the apartment, giving our trouble cat the living room and the kitchen, and the other three cats the rest of the house. (This is currently proving troublesome - they can obviously jump right over baby gates and they keep knocking over whatever we put in its way.) In the living room, we set up four litterboxes with different types of litter - since this cat is a Persian the behaviorist suggested that certain types of litter might get stuck in his toes and be uncomfortable. We have to keep a record for a month of which type he uses the most, and then use that going forward. We also have to give him wet food, to both this cat and the other three, and have them watch each other through the gate. This is supposed to show them interacting positively with each other, even though all they can do is watch.

We're also going to keep up the Feliway treatments, which should (hopefully) work better in a smaller room, and he's going back to the vet for another more thorough checkup. He might have to go on kitty Prozac but I guess we'll see.

We're supposed to keep this up for a month then let him integrate with the rest of the pack. Hopefully this will work. They also suggested more toys and shelves on the walls so they can avoid each other doorways, although none of them seem to like regular toys and just prefer cardboard boxes and paper bags.
post #19 of 24
Quote:
I was actually mistaken - we did actually put him on special food for the urine crystals. Unfortunately we were only able to do it for a few months, mostly for cost reasons. The food was quite expensive and it was difficult to make sure the other cats didn't eat it.
No amount of behavior modification or prozac is going to help this cat if he continues to have crystals in his urine.

Crystals HURT. If he has crystals, every time he pees it probably feels like little bits of glass passing through his urethra. Sharp glass. In addition, males with uncontrolled crystals in their urine are highly likely to block. Once blocked they die within 24 hours, and it is a terrible agonizing death.

Please, please get him to the vet and have a urine culture done. And if crystals are found you need to put him back on the prescription food and keep him on it for life.

I find it very strange that you will pay for a behaviorist, and yet not be willing to see that this cat is physically healthy, and keep him that way once you get him that way.
post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 
He was actually at the vet twice already this year, and he got tested. That's how we found out about the crystals, that's why he got the prescription food. He will be going back again this weekend for more thorough tests.

Everyone we have spoken to so far have indicated that his actions are behavorial, not medical. That might contribute but it is not the main cause. He is not having accidents, he is clearly spraying for territory, he is clearly anxious pretty much all the time, and he is attacking the other cats, constantly. (Moreso in the past week, actually.) Please don't be so condescending!
post #21 of 24
I went through something really similar with my cat Seti. He too forms crystals and had a traumatic past. I was sure his urination problems were behavioral since he gets upset if I'm away from him, he was taken from his mother too early and very nearly eaten by a predator. Lots of reasons to think he may not be quite right! In his case it really was the crystals and I should have known better than to assume behavior before ruling out medical but I've worked with animals professionally for nearly 15 years and was sure I was right. I was wrong. It was all due to crystals. Once I switched his diet the problem was solved, thank God. My vet, too, thought it was behavioral. It took 2 urinalyses and an outside lab before we got it nailed down. Luckily, I've a great vet who persisted in finding a solution with me. I know those foods are expensive but it works for us and we're really happy with the results. Seti gets the Royal Canin brand of crystal diet and thinks it's better than his old food. If it is medical it's a much easier fix than behavioral. Hope this helps.
post #22 of 24
Thread Starter 
Bumping this as a follow-up. The vet report from two weeks ago found that he was in perfectly fine physical health, having received a urinalysis and a blood test. So while we had bought some prescription food just in case, he doesn't need to be on it. It is just behavioural (or at least that's what they're saying again.)

We just ran into another problem with our old landlord though. We had scrubbed the hell out of the place (all hardwood floors) with the usual cat odor remedies - vinegar, peroxide, and baking soda on the oak floors, bleach on the concrete - and we were happy with the place when we left. The landlord agreed and gave us back our security deposit. Now a month later he's claiming that the odor is still there and wants to have us pay to refinish the floors, repaint all of the walls and pour concrete on the basement. I think this is all pretty sketchy since he agreed originally there was no problem with the place (although while we have the cashed checks, we don't have any of this writing, unfortunately), I think his call for such an overhaul is excessive.

Anyway, this isn't the place for legal advice, but are there any other methods to clean up this stuff that doesn't involve tearing the house apart like he seems to be suggesting? We didn't think there was a problem although perhaps the new tenants are more sensitive?
post #23 of 24
I'm pretty sure that if he already agreed that the clean-up job was fine and gave your deposit back, that he can't require anything else of you. Of course, he might take you to small-claims court, and that would be a pain. But I doubt he'd win (although you never know, depends on the judge).

There are commercial-grade urine removers available. Check out commercial cleaning supply warehouses (the kinds of places janitors buy from). Maybe that would work better than the home remedies.
post #24 of 24
Thread Starter 
I can't find any written laws on this. I know it looks bad on him but I would certainly prefer not to go to court, and that's definitely what he's threatening. He sent us bills for repainting - I don't know why he did that - and would agree to settle if we cover those. I still think it's pretty shifty.

In our experience, stuff like Nature's Miracle has worked better than the home remedies, partially because the basic scent isn't as strong as vinegar. I would have gladly supplied him with this had he decided to take a different route instead of threatening us. I'm guessing this is the type of commercial grade cleaner you're referring to?

Back to the trouble cat - we've seperated him in a different room for most of the day, and then let all of the cats interact with each other when we bring out the wet food. They tend to get along for awhile and we let them stay together providing he doesn't start attacking. Part of the problem is that our hallway is extremely narrow, and some of the fights occur because it's hard for them to manuever around each other. We were suggested to get "kittie shelves" although I don't know how if we're even allowed to install this things. The trouble cat doesn't seem to like heights, but the other cats do, so they can always get around him.

In general he is mellowing out a bit, although it has been about a month and he may just seem to be naturally adjusting to the new place. He's stopped spraying - the only thing he really ever sprayed was our boxes, strangely enough - so that's good.
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