I was just slapped in the face

Originally Posted by ut0pia

People are lazy for sure, and some people these days don't even make the effort to discipline their children in any way whatsoever, and add to that teaching them bad behaviors by example. But I don't think much more highly of those who hit their children and instill this fear in them, to me they are just as lazy, because they won't take the time to actually teach their children.
They are only "training" their child not actually making them use their ability to reason to understand what's right and wrong, but just relying on their instinct of avoiding further pain not to repeat the behavior...And sure humans are a smart species, eventually when we grow up we get why things are right and wrong and why we were hit, but it's unnecessary and damaging.
Like otto said, I am scared of what will happen when this child feels like she's in the same position of power as her adults who hit her are; for example if she's around cats or other animals or even her peers, and she feels like she has the upper hand, and there isn't any more fear of being spanked to keep her in check.

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I don't recall ever being hit by my mom... maybe one swat on the behind. But my mother was a disciplinarian by other means. She said what she meant and meant what she said and there were consequences for improper actions and WE KNEW IT! Parents these days don't set boundaries and teach their children as Utopia said. Or simple tell them all the time how wonderful they are even if they aren't so as not to bruise their little egos. The result is spoiled, self-centered children who grow up to be miserable adults.

Oh and to the subject at hand, I don't know if I would have spanked the little girl, but I would have found some form of punishment and explanation for it. Well, maybe one swat and ask her if she likes being hit. Then don't do it to others. The problem here is if proper discipline and explanation aren't reinforced all the time by the PARENTS - I don't know how much good it will do.

ETA : and I wouldn't babysit them. At all. Ever. When I was in charge of my siblings' kids as a babysitter I had full discretion both for the safety and welfare and to punish/correct bad behavior. Otherwise, forget it.

Originally Posted by otto

I understand your shock and dismay, unfortunately you spanking her only solidified the lesson that hitting is the way to solve problems or express displeasure.

Next time don't discipline with hitting of your own. Take a priviledge away, instead. And keep Tavia away from the child, no telling what she'll do to your cat.

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I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with this (except for the keep Tavia away from her part). I see nothing wrong with correcting a child in a mild physical way. A slap on the face would be uncalled for, but a few forceful taps on the behind (which is what I'm guessing the OP did) isn't going to hurt the kid and maybe will instill some kind of boundaries since it definitely sound like she needs some.

I'm sorry, the biggest brats I have seen are the ones where their parents don't feel they are allowed to "correct" them. We're talking about a 4 yr old people.

I'm sorry, I would have smacked the mother first!

My friend who pops her kid doesn't hit her animals. :shrug: I spritz the cats with a water bottle if they do something bad like claw up the screen or bed after I continually say no or move them away from it. She crates her Dachshunds when they misbehave. Her child knows how to respect animals though. If her kid starts disobeying her when she repeatedly tells her not to do something or to do something, she gets popped on the butt and sent to her room. She even had to discipline someone else's kid in her home (she gave them a time out and told them they'd no longer be welcome if they did it again) because the mother wouldn't do a thing about her child throwing sand in my friend's daughter's face. The other girl who doesn't discipline her child hits animals, and other peoples kids all the time.

Most of the problem these days is complete and utter laziness in parenting and discipline. Most people with kids these days SHOULDN'T be having them, either.

I know most of you wont agree about popping/whatever, but we're all entitled to our own opinions I'm never having kids, so I don't have to worry about it. I avoid other people's children as much as I can unless they are well behaved.

Originally Posted by calico2222

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with this (except for the keep Tavia away from her part). I see nothing wrong with correcting a child in a mild physical way. A slap on the face would be uncalled for, but a few forceful taps on the behind (which is what I'm guessing the OP did) isn't going to hurt the kid and maybe will instill some kind of boundaries since it definitely sound like she needs some.

I'm sorry, the biggest brats I have seen are the ones where their parents are allowed to "correct" them. We're talking about a 4 yr old people.

I'm sorry, I would have smacked the mother first!

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This is what I'm saying, too. No need to beat the crud out of them, just a forceful tap or two on the butt. And the mother needs to be educated in raising a child properly!

The difference in this case and that of your friend is, hitting is a way of life for this family (according to my interpretation of the OPs posts) She said her sister used to kick her grandma, and is teaching the child to hit her aunt, and the aunt and mother's elderly uncle, as entertainment. And animals are only one step sideways from that.

I don't agree with hitting as discipline in any case, but this issue that is being discussed here is just an endless cycle of violence, much of it apparently for the fun of it.

I don't agree that all children are being raised without values, that has been a standard complaint for countless generations. "kids these days have no respect......", you know?

I know many children who are being brought up to be lovely polite fun to be around contributing people. And none of them have ever been hit.

Originally Posted by calico2222

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with this (except for the keep Tavia away from her part). I see nothing wrong with correcting a child in a mild physical way. A slap on the face would be uncalled for, but a few forceful taps on the behind (which is what I'm guessing the OP did) isn't going to hurt the kid and maybe will instill some kind of boundaries since it definitely sound like she needs some.

I'm sorry, the biggest brats I have seen are the ones where their parents don't feel they are allowed to "correct" them. We're talking about a 4 yr old people.

I'm sorry, I would have smacked the mother first!

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Originally Posted by Tara & Rob

I would have hit her too. LACK of discipline these days seems to have kids being little brats. I know that when I was a kid I wouldn't DREAM of doing anything like that to an adult, because my mom would turn my butt red. I feared that! Everyone wants to be best friends with their kids. I'm not saying BEAT them, but an earned spanking back in the day kept me in line!

I can sort of see how what you're saying with telling a kid not to hit while hitting them is hypocritical, but still, the current generation is horrible without getting their butts popped for misbehaving. Instead, a kid misbehaves now and they get a cookie and told to go play.

I can't stand seeing that. I'm so glad my friend is a butt popper when her child misbehaves, and she's one of the more well behaved children I've been near. The other friend is the "here's a cookie sweetie, go play" when her kid is being an evil little hitter, and she's a terrible kid.

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Absolutely! I am sorry, but there is a very clear difference in between a disciplinary slap on the butt and violence. Me, my brothers, my cousins, (and I have many cousins, having 12 uncles and aunts on moms side, and 7 on dads side) were all slapped when we were kids, and I am yet to see one of us who have become violent. Sorry, but kids need discipline. It makes me sick sometimes to see this oh so "politically correct" way to raise children that is creating little manipulating kids who run their parents house like they are the bosses, and grow up spoiled brats with absolutely no sense of reality, no boundaries and no respect to society and to others.

I just wish you'd get out of there and away from those people!! None of them sound like they're supportive or decent to you. I can't stand how they disrespect you and are just plain mean to you!!

Originally Posted by Bellaandme

I just wish you'd get out of there and away from those people!! None of them sound like they're supportive or decent to you. I can't stand how they disrespect you and are just plain mean to you!!

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IMHO that is just another example... How are your plans of moving out coming along?

Not hitting children has nothing to do with being politically correct. It has everything to do with respecting children as full human beings. I would never hit my husband/mother/best friend/stranger at the park for doing something I deemed inappropriate, even if I had requested that the behavior stop previously. So why would I hit a child?

Here's my question for this specific situation. The original poster told her niece that she (the niece) was "being ugly." Translated to toddler understanding, she called her niece ugly. If it's okay to hit children for doing something inappropriate, then why isn't it okay for the little girl to have slapped her aunt (and honestly, even though it was in the face, it couldn't have hurt much coming from a 4 year old) for being extremely rude?

Originally Posted by Jillian

Here's my question for this specific situation. The original poster told her niece that she (the niece) was "being ugly." Translated to toddler understanding, she called her niece ugly. If it's okay to hit children for doing something inappropriate, then why isn't it okay for the little girl to have slapped her aunt (and honestly, even though it was in the face, it couldn't have hurt much coming from a 4 year old) for being extremely rude?

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Where I came from, parents took the time to educate children and we knew very very well to never EVER slap anyone across the face, and to never hit, or slap an adult. We took respect your elders quite seriously. Maybe times changed, which is sad...

Originally Posted by Jillian

Not hitting children has nothing to do with being politically correct. It has everything to do with respecting children as full human beings. I would never hit my husband/mother/best friend/stranger at the park for doing something I deemed inappropriate, even if I had requested that the behavior stop previously. So why would I hit a child?

Here's my question for this specific situation. The original poster told her niece that she (the niece) was "being ugly." Translated to toddler understanding, she called her niece ugly. If it's okay to hit children for doing something inappropriate, then why isn't it okay for the little girl to have slapped her aunt (and honestly, even though it was in the face, it couldn't have hurt much coming from a 4 year old) for being extremely rude?

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Originally Posted by Carolina

Where I came from, parents took the time to educate children and we knew very very well to never EVER slap anyone across the face, and to never hit, or slap an adult. We took respect your elders quite seriously. Maybe times changed, which is sad...

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Times have not changed as far as this Carolina, there have always been families who hit to communicate and there always will be.

This situation is disturbing because it is not "a spank on the butt" for discipline that is happening here. The mother of the little girl encourages physical violence and meanness. She used to kick her grandmother and is teaching her daughter to kick the elderly uncle.

The OP could have been showing the niece that there is another way to settle disputes rather than hitting, by refraining from spanking her.

I was hit as a child, and did not come out all right. I have issues dealing with anger and self esteem that have handicapped me all my life, from being hit and verbally abused as a child and teenager.

Times HAVE changed in regards to diciplining children and certainly not for the better! Children are MUCH worse these days that they ever were behavior wise.

I agree with Tara 100%, but then again, I too am never having children and really don't want much to do with them at all. Children get away with everything these days and in my opinion there is NOTHING wrong with spanking if a child does something wrong, and by that, I mean a spanking on the behind, not a full fledged beating.

So, you respect your elders, but you don't respect children? Well, that makes a ton of sense.

Just so I've got this straight

Hitting a child-ok
Child hitting another person-not ok, spank to teach them so.

Some of you who think the children of today are worse than other generations admit you limit or have no exposure to children at all, so what are you basing this on?

I work in homes with children every single day. I know many families, many children. And most of the kids I know are being brought up with good values and are not hit.

Yes there are plenty of rotten brats out there, and we've all had to experience the type of parent that thinks their kids should be allowed to do anything they want, or the type of parent who makes empty threats, or the type of parent who yells and smacks as a matter of course to no effect whatsoever.

None of it is new, since the world began people have been complaining that the current generation of children are being brought up with no respect for their elders or for other people.

If even one mind can be changed on this, not raising kids by hitting, that is success. It's not any different than trying to teach people to spay and neuter their pets. Or to not rub the dogs nose in it when she has an accident. There are always going to be people who refuse to change or see that their way is not beneficial to anyone but them, the person who is too lazy to change.

And there are always going to be people who are just plain mean, and take pleasure in raising their children to be mean, too.

Not hitting does not mean letting the kid get away with everything. There are other, better, ways to teach. Raising a child to be a well balanced contributing member of society takes work. Just like always, some parents are willing to do the work, some aren't.

One of my sisters was blessed with the rottenest kids on earth. Mouthy, snotty, miserable brats. None of us could stand them. But my sister has worked very hard on her children and now they are pretty nice kids. But it took work on her part, and will continue to take constant vigilance and work. Sure she could have shrugged and let them be, or smacked them around. But she cared enough to put in the effort, without hitting, to teach them how to be, against all their natural rotten instincts.

Then there's my other sister, who got lucky. Her kids were born so naturally nice she never had to do a thing to teach them how to behave. They just are naturally sweet polite generous helpful children,(in spite of the fact that she has waited on them hand and foot all their lives, so they can't do anything for themselves.) They've never been hit, either.

I work in a house with three girls and all of the girls, ages 17, 14 and 11, are nice considerate caring individuals. they care about their family first, and are devoted to one another, and treat their friends well, and their pets. No they are not perfect children, they fight and tease one another, and mouth off and get into trouble. But they are not in general rude or disrespectful and they are not hit.

I drive by another home, but (thank goodness) do not work in it, where the children are encouraged to defy authority and society anyway they can. I know because the kids, even the babies, are encouraged to play in the road, and jump in front of cars, and swear at the drivers as we drive by. Actually two homes, across the road from each other.

It's quite frustrating for anyone who lives there or has to drive past there any day. The police have been called many times on these families allowing their children to behave this way, but nothing ever seems to be accomplished. I got frustrated one day and layed on the horn when one of the kids deliberately veered his bike directly in front of my car. If I had not been paying attention I would have hit him. I was going slow enough, I almost wish I had.

Now, every time I drive through there, if the kids are outside they follow my car to the stop sign on their bikes and pull up right next to my window and scream at me as I stop. My take is that these kids are urged to behave this way in public, but I bet they get smacked around plenty inside the house when they defy the parents.

My point is, there are good families and families that don't care, just like there always have been.

Kids can be raised properly without hitting.

Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom

I completely agree. Hitting someone for hitting someone is negative reinforcement.

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Oh, hooey.

If she's used to being disciplined with nothing stronger than a talking-to and losing some little privilege (which is often not really enforced), she has already been taught that her own violence has no result to her. A spanking may have been exactly what she needed.

We're not talking about beating a kid, just getting her attention in a very focused manner.

My wife lost a teaching job at a small private school for disciplining (not with corporal punishment, but just a loss of privileges) the son of a board member. The kid never had any discipline, and that experience taught him he was more powerful than his teachers. He's been nothing but grief for his school, family, and those around him all his life (this happened almost 30 years ago).

There are those who say we've raised a generation who aren't even good for canon fodder, because you could never tell them what direction to face. That may be a little harsh, but ask yourself how much self-discipline you see in young people these days.

As I work with young people, I see a lot of self discipline in them every day. There are brats in every generation. some are born that way, some are made. There is nothing new.

Did anyone actually READ the posts that tell about how this child is being raised to think hitting is entertainment? Spanking her is not going to teach her a thing except next time to hit things that are weaker than she is and can't retaliate. Violence breeds violence. How did this four year old learn to slap her aunt in the first place?

I was raised with hitting and verbal abusing (such as what happened here when the kid was told she was being ugly). And I am not okay.

Just because I'm not into kids and don't plan on having any does not mean I don't have a lot of experience with them because I absolutely do. I practically raised my brothers. I have babysat numerous children from the age of 11 myself. I have a nephew who I spend a lot of time with AND I have a lot of friends who have children.

Children are children, and have to be diciplined. They have to learn and earn the respect. I'm pretty sure the elders have already done so. You can't really compare apples to oranges.

Originally Posted by otto

Some of you who think the children of today are worse than other generations admit you limit or have no exposure to children at all, so what are you basing this on?

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I limit my exposure as much as I can, but MANY of my friends have children and sometimes if I want to spend time with them, it means I have to spend time with their children. When I was 17 I had to babysit my half-sister's miserable bratty children that she let get away with everything. Cursing at me (at 4 years old!), biting me, hitting me, screaming in my face. When she and my parents came home, I was able to go relax in the hot tub. Instead of any sort of punishment, she sent her son to come sit in the hot tub with me, even though he did all of the above. He got in, started splashing water in my face, so I got out and told my parents I was ready to leave.

There may be other ways to discipline kids, but from what I can tell, those who have given taps on the butt have been most well behaved out of the group of kids I've been around here. It seems to be either that happens, or nothing happens.The ones who broke things and disobeyed me in MY home were those that are NOT properly disciplined in any way. My mom spanked me until I was 12ish, then began taking away privileges, which I found was easier to act like it didn't matter.

I see many people my generation and older that seem much more respectful than the brats of today. Sure, there can be a few well brought up kids, but the majority get away with everything, run the home like previously stated, and act out to all adults. My mother in law works in the Behavioral Improvement Room at the school she's at, and she deals with lots of horribly brought up kids that she just wants to spank but knows she cant (Instead, she turns the thermostat down to 50 because she's from Maine and that's still shorts weather, and hopes the cool room is enough to get them to behave better in school). Each year there are more and more showing up in her room. They get away with talking back to adults, telling their parents what they are and are not going to do, lie, and give obscene gestures. The parents have come in to the BIR room and have taken crap from their kids in front of my MIL, and she just cannot understand. My hubby and BIL got the belt if they misbehaved - she kept it in her purse wherever they went. They're not violent either. I get to hear all the stories from her on weekends about her weeks at school, so even if I limit myself to kids as much as I can, I know people that work with them everyday.

BTW: Tavia'sMom - I hope you can find your way out of that house soon! It sounds toxic to be around the people you are around there I'm appalled that your sister is raising her child to slap people in the face or that she kicked your grandmother in the shins in the past. Someone should slap some sense into your sister!

I think my first reaction would be to slap her back altho that would not be the right thing to do but first reactions happen very quickly. This kid needs to be taught some lessons or she will grow up being very lonely.

those who have given taps on the butt have been most well behaved out of the group of kids I've been around here.

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I see variations of this comment all through this thread, and others like it.

It makes no sense to me. If these kids are so well behaved why are they getting hit in the first place?

Why do they need to be hit, if they are so good from being hit?

Nah, I'm not buying it Violence breeds violence and hitting a child is violence. Of course there's the other side of the coin and the psychological damage from hitting. Now, I didn't grow up violent from being hit, but I have a whole other mess of problems instead.

If a parent is going to indulge a child, it makes no difference what kind of discipline is NOT being used, the child is still going to be indulged. Hitting is not the answer.