cosequin for bladder health?

i called the store i ordered the food from. they said that they would change my order for me so that is good. the cats will get just chicken, turkey, and duck flavour canned food from now on. i also bought some chicken wings and i will grind a few to see if i can get the cats to eat raw...that might be a lost cause but i will try again. i will try just wings for now and then add organs and hearts later on if i can get them eating it. maybe that will help too?

i also looked up a cranberry supplement for cats and found out that 250 mg once a day is a good dose so i am going to check the drug store here later. hopefully i will be able to find capsules in that dose so i can sprinkle it on her food.

i will also look into getting vit. c for her since the website i found suggests that that might help too. this is the site.

thank you for your help.

oh, blue has never had crystals. she had a bladder infection when she was 4 and didn't have one again until this past winter. she is 13 now. hopefully with these few changes we can get this under control.

Originally Posted by blueandfrodo

i called the store i ordered the food from. they said that they would change my order for me so that is good. the cats will get just chicken, turkey, and duck flavour canned food from now on. i also bought some chicken wings and i will grind a few to see if i can get the cats to eat raw...that might be a lost cause but i will try again. i will try just wings for now and then add organs and hearts later on if i can get them eating it. maybe that will help too?

i also looked up a cranberry supplement for cats and found out that 250 mg once a day is a good dose so i am going to check the drug store here later. hopefully i will be able to find capsules in that dose so i can sprinkle it on her food.

i will also look into getting vit. c for her since the website i found suggests that that might help too. this is the site.

thank you for your help.

oh, blue has never had crystals. she had a bladder infection when she was 4 and didn't have one again until this past winter. she is 13 now. hopefully with these few changes we can get this under control.

Click to expand...

Cranberry relief says use it 2x a day for the first 1-3 weeks (I am using it for the first 2) then just twice a week for maintenance - not once a day for the rest of the life of the cat... I would verify the dosage...

Each dose contains 210mg of cranberry extract, 105mg of echinacea, 34mg of Vitamin C, and 34mg of Oregon Grape Root.

So they are getting double of that a day for the first 2 weeks, one dose of that twice a week.

If the urine goes too acidic, you risk trouble with crystals... I am not sure about giving it everyday....

thank you. i will probably give it for a few weeks and then cut back like the cranberry relief suggests. i will still look for the cranberry relief when i go out of town next week. if i can get it there i will probably get my mom to mail it down to me so i won't have to use human supplements for long, just until i get home on the 26th.

Dumb question and a warning...

Has she had a senior blood panel?

I would NOT give raw with bone at this point as the bone could increase the overall ash to the point of causing crystals or another infection..Organs should be safe ( of course a call to her vet will be in order prior to implementing any of the ideas given)

Also Please do not try anything till the antibiotic is finished unless the vet give the green light

Originally Posted by sharky

Dumb question and a warning...

Has she had a senior blood panel?

I would NOT give raw with bone at this point as the bone could increase the overall ash to the point of causing crystals or another infection..Organs should be safe ( of course a call to her vet will be in order prior to implementing any of the ideas given)

Also Please do not try anything till the antibiotic is finished unless the vet give the green light

Click to expand...

I have to agree with Sharky, make sure that you've had a senior blood panel done to rule out any kidney failure. Talk to your vet before giving supplements that would acidify the urine. The last thing you'd want to give a cat with renal failure is an acidifier. Renal failure cats often have metabolic acidosis secondary to the renal failure, which causes muscle wasting. Once muscle wasting has occurred, it is nearly impossible to rebuild muscle mass in a renal compromised animal.

she had a complete blood work up done in april. all it showed was the infection in her bladder. i am assuming that she is ok now. the vet didn't suggest that i get blood work done when she was in on friday.

Originally Posted by blueandfrodo

she had a complete blood work up done in april. all it showed was the infection in her bladder. i am assuming that she is ok now. the vet didn't suggest that i get blood work done when she was in on friday.

Click to expand...

For a senior blood work should be done 2 times a year ... some vets actually want 4 a year with a cat over 10 ( oddly enough they usually are the ones that blood work is reasonably priced)...

No vet I know would not recommend newer blood work as april was 6 months ago ( ie in cat years 2-3 yrs ago)

Originally Posted by sharky

For a senior blood work should be done 2 times a year ... some vets actually want 4 a year with a cat over 10 ( oddly enough they usually are the ones that blood work is reasonably priced)...

No vet I know would not recommend newer blood work as april was 6 months ago ( ie in cat years 2-3 yrs ago)

Click to expand...

what are you getting at?

my vet did not suggest blood work and i didn't think of it. i am planning to go back to town at the end of november. i will call the vet and see if they want blood work done then.

I have a 14 yo girl who has arthritis and kidney problems. The vet hasn't diagnosed her with chronic renal failure, but she definitely has kidney issues and we've been watching her BUN and creatinine for the past 5 years. We have her blood tested twice a year (every 6 months if everything is going well) for the past 5 years. She does get cosequin for her arthritis, but I don't think it's helping her kidneys any. Since we've made dietary changes that have helped her kidney issues, I tend to think it's the change in food that has helped rather than the cosequin. However, I can't rule out that the Cosequin is having no effect on her kidney health.

Since your kitty has an infection, IIRC from reading all the posts in one setting, I would ask the vet to do a urinalysis to rule out crystals as well as a new senior blood panel to see if there has been any change in her numbers since April. Since you're sitting at the 6 month mark, it wouldn't be totally out of the ordinary to go ahead and do another round of bloodwork. At the least, it will help you get a good baseline to compare with in the future. At the most, it would help both you and your vet have a better idea of the kidney function and you'll find out if things have changed from April.

A couple of things I've learned from loving a kidney problem kitty the past 5 years, is that their health can change quickly and that keeping them as healthy as possible will help them. Also, you have to be the advocate for your kitty. It's not that your vet doesn't know what s/he is doing, it's more for your own peace of mind. I've probably had unnecessary labwork done on my girl, but I'd rather have it and know she's okay than to not have it and then have her get really sick.

One other thing that I don't think anyone's addressed is the role of stress and the health of your kitty. My girl didn't start having problems until we got a second cat. The stress of that addition was enough to cause her to have a couple of UTIs. We now run Feliway 24/7 and it not only helps calm my older girl, it helps my 2nd cat's Herpes stay in check.

HTH!

Originally Posted by Momofmany

In a more recent study, they controlled the variables a little better. They gave some cats Cosequin with no other changes, changed the diets of others in the study, and used various medications to others. The cats given Cosequin had absolutely no improvement in their bladder health. The cats with diet change did.

Click to expand...

Would you by any chance any references to these studies? I would be interested in seeing what diets etc the cats were on.

Also, Carolina I don't recall from your other Bugsy thread whether Bugsy had his urinalysis yet. Was it confirmed he does not have crystals? I am just curious about your vet's opinion on the cranberry supplement's safety. I was interested in it too but cautious because I worry giving too much.

Our kibble has cranberry and since Teppo had some crystals (low count in vet's opinion), I did not want to go on adding them on my own. Vet did bring it up but was also of the opinion that it would not be the first line of treatment at this point. (Well actually he just brought up 'acidifiers' in general).

I have been adding Cosequin to Teppo's diet for now thinking it can't hurt. If it's total bogus without diet changes (which I plan to make after I can make up my mind and after we have stressful Nov done, so we don't have too many changes at same time!), then I am certainly not going to waste money on that. It would be very hard to gauge the 'benefits' - other than this far we have not had a relapse.

Originally Posted by piikki

Also, Carolina I don't recall from your other Bugsy thread whether Bugsy had his urinalysis yet. Was it confirmed he does not have crystals? I am just curious about your vet's opinion on the cranberry supplement's safety. I was interested in it too but cautious because I worry giving too much.

Click to expand...

Due to the blood, the way that his bladder was completely empty on the x-ray, and the circumstances (major stress), and Bugsy's history (several different immune issues, the vet was pretty certain this was an inflammation on hi bladder/UTI as oppose of crystals, caused by stress, and preferred to not stress him any further with another vet visit for the urinalysis unless he got worse. Bugsy got better really quickly... He said on his case it would be safe to go ahead and use the Cranberry supplements, keep a close eye on him and report the results. Cranberry is not recommended/safe for calcium oxylates crystals, which seem to be more common in Persian kitties and older cats...
But if your vet feels that in your case an acidifier is not a good idea, I would listen to the vet's opinion...
I will keep you posted.
BTY - I bought a bottle of Cosequin and took only one capsule out, but Bugsy would not eat the food with it mixed in it - if you want it, I will be happy to mail it to you... Just PM me your address and you get is free of charge... I am not doing anything with it anyways...

Originally Posted by Carolina

BTY - I bought a bottle of Cosequin and took only one capsule out, but Bugsy would not eat the food with it mixed in it - if you want it, I will be happy to mail it to you... Just PM me your address and you get is free of charge... I am not doing anything with it anyways...

Click to expand...

If you do not have anyone local who could use the Cosequin, I would appreciate your offer for sure. Teppo is such a big boy his daily dose is two capsules, so the pill bottle goes fast with him. Thanks!

I wonder if different companies make different flavors or if Nutramax is the main one available (that's the one we have). I thought it would be really tasty with the chicken/tuna but Teppo has also given me a couple of looks like "you did put something in here did'ya?" It has not been his biggest fave, he really lurves his wet food and does not want it spoiled.

I am planning to keep Teppo on the supplement at least until new diet is established. I would like to read more about it and I hope to consult another vet about it too. I just found out a new 'holistic' vet opened a practice nearby from our new back up pet sitter. I am going to find out if she is a quack or someone to go to talk about diets and stuff.

Thanks again for the offer.

Cats with FLUTD do not do well on grain free foods. They need plant based proteins such as corn; corn gluten meal is a low ash source of protein and acts as a urine acidifier in cat food. While not the best quality source of protein, the use of corn gluten in small amounts offer preventive health benefits for cats with urinary tract problems.

And the cosequin for cats DOES help FLUTD cats. You can find studies that proves it doesn't, and you can find studies that proves it does. You can find studies on anything. the bottom line is, does it help your cat. And in my experience, yes it does.

I agree with the others that you need to not feed any more fish foods to your affected cat, and get her on a food more appropriate for her special needs condition.

Do not start things like cranberry extract or vinegar without speaking to your vet first. Things like that can back fire if not done properly and the urine is not closely monitored.

I am concerned about the frequency of the infections. To have 2 infections in such a short period of time either means that the infection didn't get totally cleared up the first time or something is triggering it. Definitely need to get bloodwork and another urinalysis done to get a better picture of what's happening.

Originally Posted by otto

Cats with FLUTD do not do well on grain free foods. They need plant based proteins such as corn; corn gluten meal is a low ash source of protein and acts as a urine acidifier in cat food. While not the best quality source of protein, the use of corn gluten in small amounts offer preventive health benefits for cats with urinary tract problems.

And the cosequin for cats DOES help FLUTD cats. You can find studies that proves it doesn't, and you can find studies that proves it does. You can find studies on anything. the bottom line is, does it help your cat. And in my experience, yes it does.

I agree with the others that you need to not feed any more fish foods to your affected cat, and get her on a food more appropriate for her special needs condition.

Do not start things like cranberry extract or vinegar without speaking to your vet first. Things like that can back fire if not done properly and the urine is not closely monitored.

Click to expand...

i cannot and will not feed my cats corn based food. or any other food with grain for that matter.

i have also researched fish based foods and flutd and found out that all fish foods are not bad for flutd cats. they said that previously poor quality fish meal was used and it was mostly bone therefore the problem arose with the crystals. i am not feeding poor quality food.

i am planning to try the switch to raw with my cats when i get back from toronto next week. i really feel this is the best diet for them.

Originally Posted by stephanietx

I am concerned about the frequency of the infections. To have 2 infections in such a short period of time either means that the infection didn't get totally cleared up the first time or something is triggering it. Definitely need to get bloodwork and another urinalysis done to get a better picture of what's happening.

Click to expand...

my vet is a 2 1/2 hour drive, one way, from where i live. i am planning to give her the whole course of meds (orbax, 14 days) and if it seems like there is still issues then i will take a day off work and bring her in. it is not as simple as popping down one day after work. i know that her health is the most important thing but i can't be driving 500 km a day to bring her back and forth to the vet.

Please SHARE the research and or studies you have SHOWING a fish diet to be fine for a FLUTD cat.... I have researched this for YEARS and talked to Many many vets and not one item/ vet has recommended fish based for this condition... Poor quality fish meal is not the issue it is Fish and processing... A raw diet may help you but you can also cause kitty alot of harm with it , due to not knowing what is causing the infection and the fact you have to adjust certain things to make a Raw diet and a Uti / FLUTD cat work....

Originally Posted by blueandfrodo

i cannot and will not feed my cats corn based food. or any other food with grain for that matter.

i have also researched fish based foods and flutd and found out that all fish foods are not bad for flutd cats. they said that previously poor quality fish meal was used and it was mostly bone therefore the problem arose with the crystals. i am not feeding poor quality food.

i am planning to try the switch to raw with my cats when i get back from toronto next week. i really feel this is the best diet for them.



my vet is a 2 1/2 hour drive, one way, from where i live. i am planning to give her the whole course of meds (orbax, 14 days) and if it seems like there is still issues then i will take a day off work and bring her in. it is not as simple as popping down one day after work. i know that her health is the most important thing but i can't be driving 500 km a day to bring her back and forth to the vet.

Click to expand...

Sometimes you have to go with the lesser of two evils. A diet that controls the bladder problems, or a cat in constant pain? I'd take the less than desirable diet, myself, and have.

I have on cat on prescription food. She has been tried on high quality canned grain free diets. The crystals always come back. I'd like to have her on the canned prescription but she won't eat it. She likes regular canned food but not the c/d. So she gets Hill's Prescription c/d kibble, because it is the only food that keeps her free of urinary tract pain and crystals.

Raw diets are great, but are not a cure all for every ailment a cat can suffer. An FLUTD cat may very well need very special tweaking of any raw diet, more so than a healthy cat. I'm not very knowledgeable about raw diets, but I know much about FLUTD. Meat proteins and bone are high in things FLUTD kitties should not have much of. Magnesium, phosphorous, calcium. Nor do they contribute to the acidity of the urine. How will you know how to adjust for this cat's special needs?

Cosequin for bladder strength and feliway plug in diffusers to help decrease stress should be definites, in my opinion, regardless of what ever else you do for her .

Has a urine culture ever been done? If not, this really needs to be done. A urinalysis is good, but not as complete and in-depth as a culture.

A culture is taking a urine sample and growing the bacteria found in the sample, and applying different antibiotics to it until an antibiotic is found that the bacteria best responds to.

A culture also identifies what else is in the urine that doesn't belong there, crystals and what type, stones, phosphorous, and what have you.

Trying random treatments, and diets without knowing the whole story is just not the way I would advise handling this trouble your cat is having. That's all.

i have stated a few times now: blue does not and nor did she ever have crystals.

i will look for the articles that i found about flutd and fish.

How is she doing? Is she any better? I didn't realize that the vet was so far away. Is there any way to find a vet closer to perhaps relay the info to your vet that's further away?

When was Blue's last urine culture?