Chickster Growling at butt

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snickerdoodle

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Gracious. I am thankful she is not harming herself yet.. and it is not continuous. Also, I never mentioned before, but during and directly after an episode she sniffs the carpet. I mean deep-sniffs, and she's started sniffing everything. Side effect of the medication, or a symptom?
 

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Do you mind if I post Tolly's story in your thread? Like I said his diagnosis is Idiopathic Seizure Disorder, but in those days I had never heard of FHS. He saw a neurologist and it was determined his episodes were neurological in nature, but I think FHS may be, also.

I'll never forget the day they started. He was a few weeks shy of turning 3 years old. I had stopped home for lunch and I saw him under the kitchen table chasing a bug. I thought it looked a little strange, but off I went to work.

When I came home 6 hours later and saw him still doing it I knew something was wrong. It was 8 pm. I called my vet, she was out of town. I called the on call vet. HE said "it sounds like a behavior problem I can't help you".

I called another vet I had tried, but didn't like in the past, office closed, no emergency contact info.

I called my former vet whom I'd loved but I left because I moved. By this time it was midnight. I left a message on his machine.

He called me back within 10 minutes. Spoke to me at length, agreed to see Tolly first thing in the morning.

He agreed with me that it sounded like seizures, though Tolly did not have an episode while we were there. (figures doesn't it?) He started Tolly on phenobarbital, a very low dose 1/4 of a 15 mg tablet, 3.25 mg, once a day. Took blood, gave instructions on follow up, wanting me to come back in two weeks, call if the phenobarbital did not help.

The phenobarbital stopped the episodes for three days, then they started up again, so I was instructed to double the dose, now he was on 1/4 15 mg table twice a day 7.5 mg total.

He became so so dopey I couldn't' stand it. He wasn't my Tolly boy. I missed him. I didn't have the knowledge and support to know that this dopiness would wear off with time. I was part of a pet forum even back then, but it wasn't very busy, and there wasn't anyone with any real knowledge or experience in it.

(The following is why I stress so strongly to people starting a pet on phenobarbital. It takes a few weeks but the dopiness DOES wear off)

I stopped the meds, and came home the next afternoon to non-stop episodes. Out of my mind, my vet still out of town, attending vet too far away, I popped him in the carrier and rushed to the vet I had used a few times before (when I was still trying to find a vet locally) and brought him in.

The vet was sitting on the counter talking on the phone, she didn't even look up. The office person was filing her nails. She looked at me standing there out of my mind with worry and said "We're closed".

I held up the carrier and tried to tell them what was going on, but burst into tears. The vet turned at the noise, put her hand over the mouth of the phone and said "I'm off duty, you'll have to go somewhere else" and then turned back to her phone conversation.

This vet is a miserable person, which is why I had left the practice after only a few visits, but she had had a huge write up in the local paper as being a cat specialist, which is why I had gone to her in the first place.

So I went home and started the medicine back up, and called the far away vet to let him know what had happened.

Finally my (then) vet came back, and she examined Tolly, said this was out of her experience or knowledge and sent us to Cornell University Companion Animal hospital. We'd already been there before, with Tolly's herpes eyes, so I already knew how great they are there. I am so fortunate that that hospital is only a two hour drive from me.

At Cornell was where he saw the neurologist, had a slew of tests, including a CT-scan (they didn't have an MRI then though they may now) chest x-ray and so on. And was diagnosed with Idiopathic Partial Seizure Disorder.

It took some time to find the right phenobarbital dose. We needed it high enough to control break through episodes, but as low as possible to go easy on the body..namely the liver.

It took 18 months of slowly increasing doses, blood work and so on. Then when they were finally controlled (no episodes for a full month) we started just as slowly reducing the dose, until he had another episode. Then raised the dose slightly again.

He finally was settled on 1 1/4, (15 mg) tablets a day=18.25 mg a day.

He took a half tablet and a quarter tablet in the morning and a half at night. For many many years.

Blood work every year.

When the inevitable liver damage showed up in January 2010, we were ready. Tolly was put on denosyl, and his dose was dropped by 3.25 mg, so he was (is) now on 15 mg a day, half pill (7.5 mg) in the morning, half at night.

He had three very small episodes when the dose was dropped. The first was 3 weeks to the day after the drop in dose. But the next day when cleaning I found one of his half pills under the chair, so he had missed a dose at some point, which explained the episode. He had two more that I saw over the next week after the first, both so short as to not have been noticeable to anyone but me, who knows what to look for. My friend was here for one of them, and she saw it too, but wondered if he had just had a twitch. I assured her I knew the difference.

Since then he has adjusted to the reduced dose, no episodes, his liver numbers have been in normal range for the last two blood checks (every three months now) He has more energy than two of the younger cats, he runs and plays and sings and plays practical jokes and makes up new Games, and is Himself.

He still takes the denosyl, will always take it for the rest of his life.

As a side note, his herpes has been controlled for years on the l-lysine, he hasn't had a flareup in 6 years. He has had FORL (a painful dental condition) twice and has had to have extractions both times, he has very few teeth left, but my now vet is wonderful and even though I am scared to death when he goes under anesthesia, I trust her with his life.

Congratulations to anyone who made it to the end of this novel.
 

mrsgreenjeens

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Oh my gosh, I knew Tolly had some medical issues, but never knew what they were! Now I know. How interesting, and scary, since Chickster's issues didn't come on until she was over 2 years old (I think), and Tolly's didn't come on until he was around 3. Wonder why? So now I'm worrying about my boys, who will be 2 in February. (no reason to suspect this might happen to them, but you just never know, do you?)

Anyway, Snickerdoodle, I care deeply for Chickster too, just like I cared for Boo, and just like I care for all the kitties I read about here on TheCatSite. I have no experience withi any of the drugs you are thinking about, so can't lend any expertise, but just listen to your heart and your Vet, (and Otto, who, as always, is a fountain of information!)
 

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Originally Posted by mrsgreenjeens

Anyway, Snickerdoodle, I care deeply for Chickster too, just like I cared for Boo, and just like I care for all the kitties I read about here on TheCatSite. I have no experience with any of the drugs you are thinking about, so can't lend any expertise, but just listen to your heart and your Vet, (and Otto, who, as always, is a fountain of information!)
I have no experience with FHS or ISD, but like Otto, that video broke my heart - and I know that was a mild one.


Otto, I'm so glad you were able to get Tolly's episodes under control so quickly - though I'm sure the whole process took a few years off your life!


I'm just so thankful that finally you've got a vet that really cares.
 
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snickerdoodle

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Wow Otto. I can't imagine what that was like, I know it must have been outrageously stressful and worrying. I thank you for posting it, as I'd never heard of either of these conditions before this, and now it seems like our poor cats (and other animals) are all coming down with the strangest conditions. Why? The products in the food, the environment, breeding, medications, .. It bothers me that so many animals come down with diabetes, cancer, kidney failure, other strange things .. like FHS. I wish there were some magical key to it all. People keep telling me I missed my calling as a vet and I'm starting to believe it as I'm actually interested in learning about all of this stuff, especially with, blessing blessing blessing, finding these two new wonderful veterinarians that are actually INTERESTED in her case, like I believe vets should be.

And Otto I am SO HORRIFIED that a vet would turn someone away and say "We're closed". If you walked into MY new vet today they would not turn you away. I'm shocked that they even come out and sit with me and talk to me free of charge as many times as they have, not to mention call me and talk to me for near an hour about things. They really are amazing.

I'm writing up a paper to give to my vet about her bowel habits, her appetite (It has increased on the Nutro! She only weighs 8.9 pounds, btw), medications (Miralax, Amytrip), and exercise/stimulation. I bought today for her a crinkle tunnel and some sort of feather turny thing with three holes in the sides, where the feather spins around and pops out the holes. It is quite slow and perplexes her as if it's not much of a challenge. She grabbed the top spinning thing and stopped the entire motor, and just looked like "Wow, Mom. This is sooooooo lame... BORING!!!" Then I discovered I could put her mouse-tail-in-a-stump inside the crinkle tunnel. WOW! She loves it. She went so far as to drag the stump out of the tunnel. I was stunned when she did that.

I really need to find ways to keep her entertained. She really does want to help us build stuff and clean and is always watching us. I just wish I knew how to incorporate that. How it would help if we spoke the same language!

As of her fits, she has had none after the small one this morning though looked as she was about to have one earlier when I stopped petting her for two seconds to make some coffee. Her tail twitched for a few seconds wildly but nothing else. This all really seemed to get worse once Boo passed. I also realized they always ate together, when he ate she ate, and now she has no one to eat with. So perhaps I can sit with her sometimes when she eats, too.

I will also print out your story Otto and give it to my vet. She will be interested to hear about that. I also will take my camera with the video on it to show her what the fit looks like, though it is a tamer version.

Chickster is definitely trying to control them, she realizes we are unhappy FOR her (I hope she knows not AT her, I have tried my best to be comforting)

There is a clip I did not put in the movie because I wanted it to load alright for you guys, but I distracted her by running my hand up and down the table. I Said "Oh look Chickster, distraction! Oooo It's going to get you!" She stopped, looked at my hand, tail twitching STOPPED. She was interested. After a few minutes I stopped my movements and said quietly "Distraction has stopped." A very split second later she attacked her tail.

I am throwing my hands up here and praying that the vet visit will give us something. Her last stool was nuggets and firm so still giving miralax everyday (Think I said that already, sorry)

She has decided to sleep on the floor beside my bed instead of on my bed the last two mornings. I may be flipping about in bed, though, sleeping poorly this week so far.

Thank you for your information, help, care and concern everyone, it means so much to me. It's one thing to go through it but to feel alone makes it infinitely worse, so I am so blessed to have you all. Blessings on your furbabies and you and yours!
 
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snickerdoodle

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Quick update: I bought Chickster a couple of new toys, so that makes four. Two of them are really bad, one is a "bobble" feather toy that does NOT bobble and is really awful, so I am taking it back, the other is apparently for kittens and has a feather wand that spins with three holes in the thing to get at it. It is too slow for her, she hated it.

So she is loving her crinkle tunnel with her mouse-flicking-tail-in-a-stump thing, and I bought her Pouncing Paws with the wand under the cover that spins erratically (And fast!) And it's been running nearly non stop all afternoon. She is really really loving it and she's been taking breaks to drink water, so that's great!

When I turned the toy off to give both of them a break, she started to get a little anxious and unhappy. She took a nap earlier this afternoon but started a small fit which was quelled when I turned the toy back on. I'm now switching between the crinkle tunnel and the Pouncing Paws.

Today I went to the vet and got her an appointment for a superchem and X-Ray for Monday at 10:30 AM. I also picked up her Reconcile (Prozac) and the pills should be much easier to go down. I am still doing research on the Prozac and will be starting her on it at 8AM in the morning per the usual schedule. It's 1/4 to 1/2 once a day, of an 8MG tablet, so.. we'll see I Suppose.

Only downside to that was the Reconcile was 45 dollars for 30 tablets, which would equal out to 60 administrations.. so 2 months worth. That is still expensive to me, but if it works great. I'm also unsure why she put 1/4 to 1/2 on there, I didn't think you'd really want to play with dosage. Since it's 8 MG and the Amytrip is 10, I'm going to start with a half. Think that's OK?

It's been an exhausting day and hoping to get Chickster to wind down a bit to sleep. I'm off the rest of the week so she's a bit unsure why I'm still home I think.

Anyway. Happy Thanksgiving to you all and your furbabies and have an excellent holiday!
 
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snickerdoodle

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An update. Chickster started the Prozac Wednesday. It is Saturday. She has had little to no fits. Small ones. I tried putting the half of pill down for her first to see if she'd eat it on her own, since it's a chewable and beef flavor. She licked at it. Then lost interest.
So I pilled her, she spit it out the corner of her mouth and it was broken and mushy. So I pilled her again and this time it went down swimmingly, or so I thought.

5 minutes later she is sitting in the window sill smelling the chilly air when she starts hacking, and eventually puked a small amount of clear liquid (The water I gave her to help the pill go down). She looked at it with curiousity. I cleaned it up and petted her to make sure she didn't think I was mad at her. Now she's playing like crazy. She ate a bit afterwards.

Question is, do I make sure she eats in the mornings before giving her Prozac? I am keeping an eye on any side effects these may give. She's not a puking cat. This is the first time she's ever puked, minus the one time I think she puked some undigested food up after a big BM.

So. Little worried now. But she's acting great and active...
 
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snickerdoodle

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We are having the superchem done tomorrow morning.

She didn't puke again and has been eating and playing and attentive, though not really wanting any petting, she is more interested in being with her toys. She hasn't come to my bed nearly at all. It was a crazy weekend though with family over. I think my neice and nephew snuck into my room and may have scared her (not on purpose, but they are so interested in her, I really wanted to tell everyone before hand not to go upstairs and mess with her because she has a condition and they could set her off, but my mother didn't want to do that. It's just been a really kinda not so great weekend...)

NO fits tho! She has destroyed one of her toys and I have to get batteries for it too. SO. there you go. Will update with results once I get them...
 

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I'm sorry she threw up - but maybe if given with food it will help. But that is GREAT she's had no fits! I know it was a stressful weekend, but this is very hopeful!!!
 
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OKay guys! Back from the Vet! I went to pick her up around 2 this afternoon and we looked at her X-rays. The vet said, "You were right on the money! She IS Constipated!" and Omgoodness you guys, I mean... that's the clearest poop nuggets I've ever seen. Otherwise, no bone issues, vet said her spine is beautiful, her joints are beautiful, nothing seems out of the ordinary with her kidneys, spleen, stomach, liver, things look great there. We will get her blood tests tomorrow and she will call me, but she is not expecting anything to come up odd. She is in great health.

We are hoping the Prozac continues to help. Once Chickster got home she was very excited, running around smelling of things and running immediately back to me and meowing a squeal, which she never does. She was happy to be home.

She hasn't pooped yet and this is day 2 going on 3. The vet doesn't want to think about doing an enema until day 4-5. Also, I am to give her cat lax 1x week to help coat things, and 1/4 a teaspoon of Miralax everyday until we can get her nuggets softened up and out of her.

She is rather backed up, but you can see what is going in is soft, then it goes through a part of the intestine and the water is all sucked out and it turns into what look like funny shaped rocks. Thankfully there were no suspicious things in there like string or anything.. I was worried there might be but she's never given cause for alarm as to swallowing things.

Anyway... Here's to hoping she poops overnight ! And I will update with the test results.

There is another medication the vet has been researching, it is between prozac and Phenobarbitol, but I forget the name. Amitan, amibitan, something ... I'll have to ask her again. This is only if the prozac doesn't help. She hasn't puked again. She was a good girl at the vet's.


So! I'll update tomorrow!!
 

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Aw, poor thing with all that backed up poop. The amitriptyline is probably the culprit there. Hope the cat lax and miralax can get things moving for her.

Is the other drug Ativan?
 
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snickerdoodle

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The Doctor just called with her results and they are are normal!!!! YAY!!! She said Chickster is perfectly healthy! The other one, I asked her, is Gatiban? I've already forgotten! I am trying to find it now, it starts with a G. I don't know why I'm adding "atiban" on everything, I don't think that's even close.

In any case, no poop yet. But she's been loving, purring and playful!

Thanks guys


Gabapentin? I believe that was it, we discussed the possibility of a neurological issue, like phantom pains, and things like that causing her fits with her tail.
 

otto

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info on gabapentin use in cats:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...=2&SourceID=52

I'm always interested in feline pharmacology. This medicine is used to treat seizures but according to VIN, is expensive. I'm curious though why your vet seems to want to try everything but phenobarbital. Not judging here, just interested.

Of course if the prozac is going to help perhaps further experimentation won't be required.

Glad to hear everything is good with her blood work!
 
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snickerdoodle

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She finally went poo! It was extremely hard and small nuggets, but I was so happy! She was much more active and playful and I got new batteries into her Pouncing Paws, so she was having a heck of an evening before I left for work and sucking on her toe. Did I mention they trimmed her nails free of charge while she was there? I was SO THANKFUL (I need to call and thank them) because it totally slipped my mind. She was starting to stick to everything when she walked. Now she can't maul my hands when I pill her.

Things are going very well. I gave the cat lax already this week so it is 1/4 teaspoon of miralax everyday until we can start getting some regular stool out of her.

I am wondering if the switch of meds, or if the amytrip is still in her system enough that it is still causing the urine retention. It bothered me that she didn't go pee from Monday until this evening (If she peed at the vets, I'm not sure). She finally peed this morning and it was a large amount. And it looked very concentrated because it made a puddle in the 4 inch thick litter and finally soaked in.

I was terrified her poop had gotten so backed up that it was pinching off her urethra and she couldn't pee, but thankfully that doesn't seem to be the case (I don't even know if that CAN happen, but it crossed my mind)

So after much bottom-stimulating with a warm wet cloth, patting, exercising, water encouragement and miralax, we seem to be getting the train moving again. She is still loving the Nutro.

By the way, interesting thing: When I took her to the pan to try an get her stimulated by way of the feel of the litter, before she pee'd, she had a small fit with her tail. So now I am pretty much convinced this has SOMETHING to do with the constipation. Her little balloon knot was pooched out so I knew she had to go. My poor baby

Once she calmed down she went pee, then all was well again. She did not have another one any other time.

Who knows, maybe if we get this constipation under control, we can stop the prozac... I am still wanting to lean towards constipation as the root cause of this... but I hope against hope


Thanks guys!!
 

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Glad she got some poop out, and the not peeing must have been very worrisome.

I've said it before: Whoever said that having pets relaxes you and extends your life, must never have had pets.
 
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snickerdoodle

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Ain't that the truth? I can remember a news piece about pets lowering your blood pressure, and after one particularly bad day at work, I came home and was sitting with Boo, and I put him in my lap and said, "Lower my blood pressure dangit!!" and he just looked at me as if to say, "Yeah lady, sure, I'm trying."

I wish Chickster would get a little more used to the pilling idea. She fought hard today, I had to shove that thing back into her mouth three times before she finally swallowed it. I gave her some more miralax too. She did not poop again overnight, so hopefully that stuff will start pushing things out. I am figuring I will see some vomit when she finally does because I can't imagine her NOT after all the poop I know is in there.

Thank GOD the vet trimmed her nails or I'd be looking like a horror film right now! It seems even though her toys are running, she is very upset with me and is having a small fit. Though only lasted a couple minutes. Think she's quit now. *sigh*
 

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Thank goodness I don't have to pill Tuxie, or I'd be all clawed up too. He will NOT let us touch his nails anymore! When I did have to pill him, I could clip his claws - but he'd always chomp down on me. I wasn't any good at using the piller thingy - but I can get it over the hump of the tongue real quick - but still always with that chomp.


I don't know when you stopped the amitryptaline, but it can take two weeks or so to cycle out of her system - so it's possible it's still causing the urine retention.


I'm still hoping all of this has to do with her uncomfortable bowels too!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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