Doing Some Experimenting - Need Ideas.

vertigho

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This is my second thread on this topic, but my goal for this one is to be more specific.

If you hadn't heard already, my cat Bruce started panting lately (mid September). It isn't constant, and it first starts after he exerts. It varies in how long it lasts, but he generally recovers pretty quickly.

We've had everything done to ensure that he's fine - we had an echocardiogram done, we had blood-work done, we had a chest x-ray done, and we've had him physically examined. Not a single one of these things showed that anything was wrong. He's still eating and drinking as usual, he's active (almost too active - he annoys the other cats too much) and he's acting like a perfectly normal cat.

The vet has said that we've ruled out anything life threatening/serious (cancer, heart disease, etc, etc). He thinks that it's something in his upper-respiratory system, and this would make sense because according to the SPCA records, Bruce was INCREDIBLY sick as a kitten with multiple respiratory viruses - he was close to dying.

I've been wondering if this upper-respiratory damage he has is causing some restriction, and therefore he needs to breath through his mouth when he exerts - but this begs the question, why hasn't he always panted? Well, I think I may have found the answer: Allergies.

It's October, so fall allergies are out in full-force. Not only that, but we recently switched his food, litter, and his pro-biotics. He was having dry-food for a long time, but the vet recommended that we switch to a wet food. We started giving him California Natural wet food, and he seemed fine. Recently though, we started giving him Evo food. Around this time, he started having the panting. Furthermore, we started using Feline Pine, instead of a certain dust-free litter that we were using. And lastly, he was having fortiflora pro-biotics, but we recently switched him to Pet-Dophilus pro-biotics.

With him already having upper-respiratory damage, could one, or multiple of these switches be causing him to have an allergic reaction, and therefore, having issues breathing?

As I said, we've had everything serious/life-threatening ruled out, so I don't want to hear about that, but I want to hear some opinions on which of these things could be causing this.

(P.S. - I'm going to switch him over to California Natural again, and I'm going to try a new litter. I'm also going to switch back over to fortiflora pro-biotics. I'll see what happens with these changes.)

Thanks in advance,
-Vert
 

catsallaround

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Most of my cats will pant at some point or other-heat/stress of a hour long car ride when we moved.
of the ones who pant just cause one was a bit chunky and would pant from running. vet said it was normal. He died at 9 yo or so around time of recalled pet food. Never panted as a kitten started when he was about a year old seemed to calm down as time went on and he settled into life a bit lazier


My cat with a murmur never pants tho so go figure. I would be interested to see if you can get him to stop at some point and nail it to something
 

rad65

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Those could all be affecting his breathing. Cats under stress breath heavily, and every minute detail changed in their lives stresses them out. Why, might I ask, did you do all of these changes at once? Usually it takes a week or two just to switch foods, and litter needs to be switched over slowly a well or cats may even refuse to go. The pine dust itself could be doing it, cats have very sensitive nasal passages. I'm not sure about the probiotics, but I would bet changing brands set him up for some transitionary side effects.

And when you add in the problems during kittenhood, his breathing problems all make sense. In fact, I would be more surprised if he wasn't experiencing some side effects to all of those changes mixed with bad URIs as a kitten.
 

strange_wings

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I have one that was very sick as a kitten and does have some sinus damage. As a result his sense of smell is poor - he is the only cat I have ever seen that does not respond to things like fresh garlic, onion, and even oranges. (we've tested all sorts of things for curiosity's sake) He does not pant.
When he was younger and overweight he did snore, though.

Your other pictures show clay litter yet you say you've switched to Feline Pine? Just so you know pine contains abietic acid that does cause respiratory damage with regular exposure. It and cedar are not safe to use.
If you're looking for a truly non-dust not allergen/irritate type of litter you have the options of Yesterday's News, Smart Cat Box system, and Tidy Cat Breeze.
 
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vertigho

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

I have one that was very sick as a kitten and does have some sinus damage. As a result his sense of smell is poor - he is the only cat I have ever seen that does not respond to things like fresh garlic, onion, and even oranges. (we've tested all sorts of things for curiosity's sake) He does not pant.
When he was younger and overweight he did snore, though.

Your other pictures show clay litter yet you say you've switched to Feline Pine? Just so you know pine contains abietic acid that does cause respiratory damage with regular exposure.
If you're looking for a truly non-dust not allergen/irritate type of litter you have the options of Yesterday's News, Smart Cat Box system, and Tidy Cat Breeze.
No, no. This was actually posted awhile ago and since then the panting has stopped. We started giving him herbal pills that are supposed to clear your sinuses. Since we started these, we haven't seen any panting.

I switched FROM feline pine to the new clumping litter you saw in the other pictures. I tried Yesterday's News and they didn't like it. The litter I'm using now is 99.9% dust free, and they all love it. As we've learned, the only downside is the fact that it makes your cat's pee's look small and cause concern on the owners behalf.
 

strange_wings

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I wonder if it was the feline pine, then? How long did you use that? Recently, looking up other woods like aspen I've come across a bit of info about it, pine, cedar, and some other wood resins having the possibility to cause liver damage...

I wouldn't be surprised if the pine was part of the problem, though.
 
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vertigho

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

I wonder if it was the feline pine, then? How long did you use that? Recently, looking up other woods like aspen I've come across a bit of info about it, pine, cedar, and some other wood resins having the possibility to cause liver damage...

I wouldn't be surprised if the pine was part of the problem, though.
I had used the feline pine for a number of months. I'm just happy that he's fine now.
 

carolina

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These herbal pills... I assume they are vet approved, right?
Also, if you are looking for clean, Allergy free, Fortiflora is not where you want to stay - the ingredients in that "Probiotic" are... well... Kinda nasty... IMHO.... Yes, there is one probiotic strain in there - but there is also animal digest (which you don't know exactly what is in it nor how it is processed, enzymatically or chemically, Salt...)... I Like Bene-Bac (powder) much better, and it is way way cheaper.... I buy one pound at amazon for $16.95, and it lasts me months for all my (now 4) cats, using daily...
 
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vertigho

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Originally Posted by Carolina

These herbal pills... I assume they are vet approved, right?
Also, if you are looking for clean, Allergy free, Fortiflora is not where you want to stay - the ingredients in that "Probiotic" are... well... Kinda nasty... IMHO.... Yes, there is one probiotic strain in there - but there is also animal digest (which you don't know exactly what is in it nor how it is processed, enzymatically or chemically, Salt...)... I Like Bene-Bac (powder) much better, and it is way way cheaper.... I buy one pound at amazon for $16.95, and it lasts me months for all my (now 4) cats, using daily...
I haven't talked to the vet about the herbal pills, but these are what I'm using. They got great reviews and he has been on them for a number of weeks now without any issues:

http://www.nativeremedies.com/petali...ry-system.html

http://www.nativeremedies.com/petali...dog-noses.html

I give one of each twice a day (although there are certain days when I slack and I only give one of each once a day.)
 

strange_wings

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You should talk to the vet about this. I don't get the FDA approved claim since the FDA doesn't regulate supplements...

Though chances are it was one of the changes you made and not the homeopathic remedies that made the difference.
 
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vertigho

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

You should talk to the vet about this. I don't get the FDA approved claim since the FDA doesn't regulate supplements...

Though chances are it was one of the changes you made and not the homeopathic remedies that made the difference.
I have full confidence that these are helping.

My cat that passed in February, Edward, was diagnosed with an aggressive oral cancer in April of '09. He was given about a month to live. We got him on supplements from that site and he lived for close to a year....
 

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by vertigho

My cat that passed in February, Edward, was diagnosed with an aggressive oral cancer in April of '09. He was given about a month to live. We got him on supplements from that site and he lived for close to a year....
Have you ever heard the term "correlation does not imply causation" ? It could have simply been that because you took good care of him that his cancer did not spread as fast as it could have. Or it could simply be that cancer acts differently in each body. In any case it's not really repeatable with all variables so there's no real proof of anything.

In any case, consult your vet before giving anything to your cat in lieu of treatment. What may be safe in dogs can cause liver and even kidney damage in a cat.
 

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

You should talk to the vet about this. I don't get the FDA approved claim since the FDA doesn't regulate supplements...

Though chances are it was one of the changes you made and not the homeopathic remedies that made the difference.
The FDA sees Homeopathic s as Drugs thus regulates them...Thus the claims... Homeopathy is definitely a Specialty field, I have eastern and western herb trained vets and Neither will RX homeopathic s due to a lack of training.. I too suggest at least discussing with your vet , by doing this and bring several homeopathy books to my vets they were able to give me their opinions after doing some research
 

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by sharky

The FDA sees Homeopathic s as Drugs thus regulates them...
They don't actually see them as drugs. The "regulation" is to keep out things like mercury and other harmful things that were traditionally used, and not actual strict testing that prescription meds and OTC meds go through. FDA approval does not mean a homeopathic remedy works, just that it won't kill you. (though considering that they can't even get that right on actual drugs..)
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

They don't actually see them as drugs. The "regulation" is to keep out things like mercury and other harmful things that were traditionally used, and not actual strict testing that prescription meds and OTC meds go through. FDA approval does not mean a homeopathic remedy works, just that it won't kill you.
Off topic but ..lol. @ not kill ya .. as how many that they do test end up doing that


Yeah so far no study can actually say homeopathic stuff works
 

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by sharky

Yeah so far no study can actually say homeopathic stuff works
In people, I'd say it's all placebo. If you're think you're getting better sometimes the mind can do amazing things. Just positive thought/mood increases pain control, for example.
In the case of animals, I think if the people are going out of their way to try to find something to help their pets that they will be dedicating more attention and care towards that animal - which can sometimes do wonders. Animals that people are sure will die can survive with the right person, even if their care would be identical to anothers. A bond? Love? "magic touch"? Who knows.


But while I don't believe homeopathic remedies work, if they're made up intended for humans or other animals who's to say they didn't include a small amount of something (even as a preservative, like an alcohol) that a cat's liver can't deal with?

Herbs, minerals, and other supplements can act as medicine, though, and should always be treated with the same respect and consideration as a pharmaceutical drug.

(more thoughts on FDA and homeopathy, they really don't require the makers to even be honest about dilutions. Some have lied about it and you get people having serious side effects. Much like supplements, they're really not regulated at all besides "labeling".)
 

sharky

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"
Herbs, minerals, and other supplements can act as medicine, though, and should always be treated with the same respect and consideration as a pharmaceutical drug.
"
Exactly

Many recent recalls and warnings have been issued for homeopathic formulas in recent months
 

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by sharky

Many recent recalls and warnings have been issued for homeopathic formulas in recent months
Yep, because the FDA doesn't really regulate them like real medicines. Recalls happen after people get sick.
It would be nice if everything was properly tested, including supplements, and held to stricter guidelines.
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

Yep, because the FDA doesn't really regulate them like real medicines. Recalls happen after people get sick.
It would be nice if everything was properly tested, including supplements, and held to stricter guidelines.
WAY off topic sorry
true but I also do not think the regular drugs are much safer as I get no less than 2 recalls a day for them into my inbox... Caution is to be used for anything.. I have found some supplement s with stricter testing and guidelines than the FDA use for standard drugs.. of course most do not originate in this country
 
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