Firefighters let house burn to the ground - Page 4

We'll see. My bet is that there will be more about this all, especially if it goes to court. If the homeowner can show that he had paid the last however many years, and had just missed this one, and hadn't acknowledged that he had missed it to any neighbors, in other words, wasn't blatantly ignoring it, then I suspect the court may rule that the policy is unreasonable and needs to be changed. Wouldn't be surprised if it gets changed to what most such departments use, anyway, just over the negative publicity.

On the other hand, if he told even one neighbor that he knew he hadn't paid it, normally didn't pay it, and wasn't going to pay it, he may lose what sympathy he's gotten.

Barring a court case, we're stuck where we are. I think the policy is wrong, but it's the policy and the homeowner apparently knew it. The city doesn't have to provide any fire protection to those outside its limits, but it does so under a clearly-stated policy. I think they will change the policy, but it could be to cease providing fire protection outside the city limits.

Mr. Cranick wants a do-over, but life just isn't like that. And the fire chief is right: If they fought fires without being paid the dues, who would pay the dues? No one thinks their house is going to burn down.

I wonder how many other departments have the same policy and are quietly working on changing them right now.

And I think you're wrong about the T-shirt. I suspect that there are many places it would not only get you free coffee, but your meal and drinks paid for.

I don't see it going to court actually. Tennessee does not have an "obligation to rescue" law, and it's "good Samaritan" law only covers medical situations. I don't even see it being about the money, though a lot of people desperate to keep it from reflecting badly on small government are trying to make it about the money.

10 days ago, every professional Firefighter in the country would have looked you in the eye and told you that NO firefighter is going to stand by and let someone's house burn. Now, it has been thrown into their faces that is wrong, and they are mad about it. It's also coming to light just how many little podunk wannabe "departments" have done similar things.

Firemen themselves are posting on Firefighter's forums the entire department needs to be drawn and quartered, ripped into tiny pieces and buried alive. Nearly every real Firefighter in the business are where they are because they have a drive to help people, to the creed of Duty, Honor and Courage. Now, they find themselves being constantly compared to a piddly outfit of fee enforcers that almost complies with only one part of the creed, and it hurts them. At the "fill the boot" drives, there is always someone who will ask quite bluntly why they should donate when they pay taxes. Now they will also have to put up with the one's that are going to ask if they will let their house burn down if they don't donate.

Apparently fire service coverage has come up multiple times in this community and each time the community votes against it. The county residents do not want fire protection services to come out of their taxes- which is just insane to me- but it's what they voted for- repeatedly.

Personally, I think they should have fought the fire (if it was fightable- they waited two hours after all and apparently made no attempts to put out the fire when it was confined to a garbage can), but then billed the family for the thousands of dollars it cost the FD to put the fire out.

I my county we have mutual aid agreements written up with other counties. If another county requests my guys to respond for their fire or other emergency situation, we already have a mutual aid agreement set up and I dispatch them. We have agreements with several counties in Ohio, as well as surrounding counties here in Indiana. I can't imagine ever living in a town that does not have fire protection service covered by local taxes- but that is what this community chose. There is a small, local community that refused to allow an ambulance to stage at their fire department, and now they do not get ambulance service (because they don't want to pay for it). I imagine this decision on the part of that down is going to come back to bite them at some point. The nearest ambulance is several miles away and would take forever to get there.

After reading this whole thread I can see both sides. The homeowner is definitely at fault. I have a hard time understanding how a fire fighting team could stand by and watch a house burn to the ground without doing something.

BUT what about the firefighters insurance? Are they covered if they fight a fire that is not within their jurisdiction? What if they get injured? Are they covered for that?

When I worked at a restaurant I would stop in frequently on my days off, and if they were getting slammed I would help out by seating people, getting drinks, even hopping on the cut table. That stopped because the insurance didn't cover me if I got hurt on the job. I didn't like it, but I stopped helping out because told me if I continued I would lose my job.

So, I have no idea what the insurance policy is for firefighters. I don't know if this is the case or not, but it could be food for thought. It could be that the firefighters hands were tied.

Without having access to the actual policy, it's impossible to say. Our volunteer departments don't even insure the firefighters. The volunteers have to have their own life, health and auto insurance, and the department simply pays for "emergency services" riders for their policies.

Ours also have a clause that is similar to the "reasonable person" in tort law. Take for example, a firefighter is ordered to leave a burning building. But, he/she is within sight of a person in need of rescue. If that firefighter is injured in the rescue attempt, he/she is still covered by insurance, even though they were disobeying orders from the incident commander.

That is a lot like the suggestion by Mai_kitties.
This option wasn't available to the homeowners though.

Um, thats not right, it is required you have AT LEAST liability insurance in Tennessee. A friend had her DL suspended for 6 months because she did not have proof on her and just paid the fee. But she didnt realize that is the same as admitting to not having insurance in TN.
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/tenne...ance-laws.html
http://www.ehow.com/facts_5008622_te...ance-laws.html

Well, 40 years ago it wasn't illegal to drive without liability insurance in Texas. It was just illegal to have an accident without insurance. If that happened, you would be required to post a $20,000 bond until it was all sorted out.

I wonder how many of the fire departments in Tennessee are actually happy about one of the side effects of this incident, which I would suspect is that a lot of people are going to make sure they've paid their fee. I know I double-checked with my brother to make sure he's paid our fee this year.

well I just know when you get pulled over in TN they do ask for DL , Registration, and Insurance.

As for the fire departments, not sure. I live in East TN and all of ours are volunteers or paid by the city, but do not have a specific fee you have to pay for fire protection.

My son is a volunteer fireman and EMT in the area we live in Missouri.The way the fire departments work around here is that if you live within the city limits,your housefire is fought by the city fire department,who are also volunteer and are partially tax supported.Living in the city limits you do not pay a yearly fee.If you live outside the city limits,we have volunteer fire depts. in almost every small town around.Their fees vary but the norm is about $ 65 a year....a little more if you have several out buildings,and they are not tax supported either.If you have not paid your yearly fee (which if you do it can lower your homeowners ins.)and you have a fire,they will come and put out the fire the same as if you were a "member",but you pay per man,per equipment,per hour charges.Some of those charges may be covered by your homeowners policy,some may not.Different companies do different things.They also have a mutual aid agreement with neighboring fire departments and if they need help fighting your fire,as a non member you would be charged for the mutual aid departments as well.Your larger cities have tax supported fire departments and all the fancy equipment.Your smaller fire departments survive on those fees.Many of the volunteers pay for their own schooling and their own equipment because the department just can't afford it.Yes they can get grants from the state sometimes,this is true.Many of the rural depts. have fund raisers year round because not everyone pays their fees.We get a request for membership in the mail every year and we pay our dues accordingly.I have never known of any department in our area refusing to put out a fire...I have heard of it happening,though.I don't agree with it.I do not think it's right.I can understand if they are financially strapped...so send the guy a bill and put out the dang fire!We had a neighbor whose house caught on fire.My son was the first on scene and requested mutual aid from neighboring depts. as our small dept. could not have done the whole job alone.The neighbor didn't pay his fees and threw a fit when he got the bills from the mutual aid depts. ...saying he didn't call for mutual aid.Our department ended up taking him to court,and he eventually paid the bills.I just thought I'd stick my two cents in as to how this works in my area.When you stand back and look at it,in our area,it works quite well.It brings to my mind a tee shirt my son has that asks the question...what would happen if volunteer firemen didn't?Shame on those who wear the badge and don't!

Well, I suppose if the city police were to drive by every crime they saw happening in any area they weren't directly assigned to, it would increase the sale of concealed carry permits.

That would make some money managers somewhere happy no doubt.

How much time and money did it take away from the financially strapped fire department to take him to court?

You know,I really don't know.Probably more money than they rightfully should have spent,I'm sure.I think there was a bit of a principle involved,that being when you call 911 and request aid because your property is burning,you have to know that if whoever it is that establishes incident command feels they cannot handle it on their own,they're gonna ask for mutual aid.They don't take the time to hunt the property owner down and ask their permission.Time is of the essence!It's my understanding that he was a bit of a jerk about the other departments coming,which there were 2.Some of the rural departments around our area have more equipment than others....tankers or dump tanks,brush equipment,manpower,and they share.When you're rural,you have to.Like I said,they depend on those membership fees and whatever grants they can get to keep their departments running.With this particular fire,they needed tanker support for water and manpower.When you have all volunteer firefighters,not everyone shows up to every incident.They can't afford it!

There's no way to link my local news (south central KY) until they put it on their website, if they do, but there is an interesting twist going on in this situation.

They are having difficulty holding a hearing for the family member that knocked out the fire chief...because none of the firefighters that witnessed it will show up for court.

lol.. actions speaking louder than words?

I agree with all of you.

As a Tennessee girl myself (west TN), I am absolutely DISGHUSTED that those firemen just let the house burn down (animals and all). That is unacceptable! I have lived in TN my entire life and I have never heard of having to pay an annual fire dpt fee for protection. I assure you all that the rest of Tennessee is NOT like that idiotic county! The city that I live in responds to all emergency calls.

My friend Abby and her husband Jon live in the same apartment complex that I live in. Abby's husband Jon works for one of the local fire dpts. We asked him what he thought about this and he thought it was obsurd as well. The job of first responders is to save lives and protect property, not watch them burn to the ground.


(To answer the last post, yes, Tennessee is very humid!!! During the summertime/early fall here, the humidity can be worse than the heat alone at times. There were several weeks during the past few months where my area stayed above the 100 degree mark for days at a time. It has only began cooling down in the last few weeks here to a comfortable temperature!)

- As far as some of the other posters go- Tennessee does not have a state income tax. However, we have one of the highest sales tax rates in the country! Also, we are absolutely required to carry liability insurance on our cars! Trust me, I cringe each time I make a car insurance payment.

They certainly should have rescued the animals.

The practice is very common. The fact you haven't heard of it only indicates that you aren't acquainted with rural life in most of the United States, including Tennessee.