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Russian Black/White

post #1 of 23
9/29/10 at 8:11pm
Thread Starter 
I have recently visited my local animal shelter with the intent to adopt a kitten. I have filled out the necessary paperwork and just waiting for an approval. There were a specific set of kittens that I was looking and I recall the lady working at the shelter saying something about Russian. There were 4 or 5 kittens in the litter. All of them were black except one, unless they were Russian Blues but I don't think the dim lighting would have thrown me off that much.

The one that was not black was a mixed color, black and white. Is it possible for a Russian Black to be mixed like that? I am skeptical of their breed but I have read about the qualities of the Russian Blue and the cross breeds that have come from it and I like their personalities and feel they would blend well with me and my environment. I also do not know much about cat breeds in general and how popular Russian Black or Russian Whites were in the United States due to their origin in Australia and New Zealand. Can anyone offer me some advice? I guess when I go back to the shelter, I can get a better look and see the paperwork that was on their cage to make sure. I plan on adopting one of them regardless but it would be nice if I know their breed and was sure it was a Russian cat.
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post #2 of 23
9/29/10 at 8:41pm
Most shelter cats, unless you go to a breed-specific rescue group are mixed breed, just DSH or DLH. Domestic short or longhair. It's not like dogs where you can say something is part this and part that. Some shelters try to drum up interest in their cats by saying a cat is part this or that breeed based on vague physical resemblance. I'm sure the people who know specific breeds will chime up soon and will probably say the same thing.

The only way to know for sure is if someone surrendered a purebred cat and gave their papers to a shelter (unusual as most good breeders will want to take their cats back should an owner be forced into rehoming).
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post #3 of 23
9/29/10 at 8:48pm

You might enjoy reading this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicolor_cat
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post #4 of 23
9/29/10 at 8:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrajean View Post
Most shelter cats, unless you go to a breed-specific rescue group are mixed breed, just DSH or DLH. Domestic short or longhair. It's not like dogs where you can say something is part this and part that. Some shelters try to drum up interest in their cats by saying a cat is part this or that breeed based on vague physical resemblance. I'm sure the people who know specific breeds will chime up soon and will probably say the same thing.

The only way to know for sure is if someone surrendered a purebred cat and gave their papers to a shelter (unusual as most good breeders will want to take their cats back should an owner be forced into rehoming).
That's what I figured. I am sure I will be happy with the kitten I do adopt anyways. My previous cat passed away about 2-3 years ago and I have been longing for a new one since but was not able to get one due to living at college. Now that I am done with school, I have the time to welcome a new pet into my life and am very excited to do so. I am hoping they contact me tomorrow about the adoption papers and I can adopt one tomorrow. I will be sure to see what kind of information they have regarding the kittens, I failed to see what the documents said when I was looking. The woman did introduce me to other cats and referred to them as DLH or DSH but these specific kittens she dropped the word russian. I was too busy adoring the kittens to really bother with what she was saying at the time.
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post #5 of 23
9/29/10 at 9:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrajean View Post
Most shelter cats, unless you go to a breed-specific rescue group are mixed breed, just DSH or DLH. Domestic short or longhair. It's not like dogs where you can say something is part this and part that. Some shelters try to drum up interest in their cats by saying a cat is part this or that breeed based on vague physical resemblance.
.... Good luck tomorrow, and welcome to TCS!
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post #6 of 23
9/30/10 at 1:11am
I have no idea how common white or black Russians are in the US, I see more blue and whites with no blacks (and the occasional Tabby which is an accepted colour here)

More than likely they are domestics I would think. Good luck with your application hope you're bringing home a new kitty soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrajean View Post
(unusual as most good breeders will want to take their cats back should an owner be forced into rehoming).
That only works if people contact the breeder, some do not and just surrender the cats.
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post #7 of 23
9/30/10 at 4:51am
Shelters tend to lable any grey (blue) cat as a Russian Blue which is wrong. I've never even seen a real RB on Petfinder either. So its very doubtful its any kind of "Russian" cat unless there is a pedigree with the cat.

Please don't get me started on the Russian Blacks/Whites. My first cat was a Russian Blue purebred and I'm kinda upset that our association's RB council rammed thru the Whites and Blacks and want them all to be called Russian Shorthairs.

I have NO objection to the whites and blacks and any other color Russian Shorthairs, but feel that the Russian Blues should remain as a separate breed. RB's were the "origianal" breed when CFA and the other associations accepted them - they were always blue and that's the only color the breed came in and was accepted.

There are a many of the RB "purest" like me that feel the whites and blacks (btw there are tabbies too) will ruin the coats of the original Russian Blues with their silver tipping and green eyes.

To answer your question abot the "and white" ones - as far as I know none of the Russian Shorthairs allow color and white on the cats.
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post #8 of 23
9/30/10 at 5:27pm
^I agree with GK about the Russian Blues.
I still don't recognize any other colors for Russians, and have never seen any other color Russians than blue. And even the 'ruining' of the original blue to a lighter 'US trend' version which most of the Scandinavian breeders have done after judges started to favor them, has annoyed me a lot as I find the original dark version the only 'real' color. But that's just my opinion...(and I have lots of them, strong ones.)
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post #9 of 23
9/30/10 at 7:01pm
To me there is no such breed as a Russian Blue and it makes me so mad to hear that term. The Russian breed of cat looks gorgeous in all the other colours. Whites are my favourite.
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post #10 of 23
9/30/10 at 10:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WellingtonCats View Post
To me there is no such breed as a Russian Blue and it makes me so mad to hear that term. The Russian breed of cat looks gorgeous in all the other colours.
I adore a nice Russian Blue, so gorgeous
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post #11 of 23
9/30/10 at 11:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WellingtonCats View Post
To me there is no such breed as a Russian Blue and it makes me so mad to hear that term.
It's a bit like British Blue isn't it, when they come in a rainbow of colours.
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post #12 of 23
10/1/10 at 4:12am
You guys might like the other colors of the Russian. We don't and if you go back 10 or 20 YEARS you will find that the Russian Blues were the ONLY colors in the rings and no one even bred the other colors.

IMO leave the Russian Blues alone and develop the other colors as you wish, but the 2 should be kept separated. There is NO way that mixing the colors in with the blues will retain the beautiful SILVER tipping and the dark GREEN eye color of the Blues. You WILL loose the silver tipping that makes the Russian Blue what it is.
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post #13 of 23
10/1/10 at 6:51am
I have seen pictures on russian blue who saw almost black. So it surely happens RB can be very dark. (nay, them was not the so called russian black)


That said, these kittens are surely and beyond any doubt beautiful moggies, even if they have some resemblance to a black (or white) russian.
(Unless the shelter does have papers on them.)

Why, there is a russian -alike black slender female moggie owned by our neighbours. She is very beatiful, very agile, very shy etc. Even the eyes are greenish. A better russian type than these Australian black Russians...
And still moggie, moggie, moggie per definition, surely no trace of RB in her ancestry, even if she had any....


Im very glad you are prepared to adopt at least one of them as they are, russians or not.
IF they are lively as it sounds, consider to take two. It will be easier both for them and for you.

Good luck and much joy!
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post #14 of 23
10/1/10 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cahill View Post
The woman did introduce me to other cats and referred to them as DLH or DSH but these specific kittens she dropped the word russian.
If ALL the other were "common" house cats, but only this litter had some breed in them, she probably believed there was something with russian in them. (unless she did really wanted to sell them to you! )

Having a second though, I remember I had often noticed half-russians to be quite often black!

Im no expert on color-genetics, so I dont want to explain or not explain this theoretically.

But they are quite often black yes. And sometimes with white patches... And not so seldom, behave in much like russians.

So forget all about Russian black, but it is not impossible they do have some Russian blue blood in them, although being moggies. Maybe even so much as half.
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post #15 of 23
10/1/10 at 10:02am
I did already mentioned the idea of buying two.

I want to once again stress this idea.

1. It IS often easier to have two cats.

2. Your deceased cat was prob an old one. So your memories and knowledge is of having one old cat.
But this will be a kitten. They are always lively. And if russian-alike - it will be a lively kitten, and a rather lively cat as adult. Thus: easier and better for all, to have two kittens....

3. Many shelters and Animal Friends in Sweden tend to avoid selling cats as singles. They either sell them in pairs, or want to be sure there is already cats at home. Or at least, a cat friendly dog.
Your shelter perhaps thinks along the same lines?? Ie. If you are waiting to be approved, it will surely be easier to be approved if you do ask to buy and adopt two...

Good luck!
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post #16 of 23
10/1/10 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
It's a bit like British Blue isn't it, when they come in a rainbow of colours.
Funny, I've never heard of that term before and it's "my" breed. I know blue is the most popular color, but it wasn't the only original color. Are they actually called that in somewhere?

What organizations recognize the other colors of Russians? I haven't even seen much pictures of them so they are rare..? Is the standard same except in coat color?
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post #17 of 23
10/1/10 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernGlow View Post
Funny, I've never heard of that term before and it's "my" breed. I know blue is the most popular color, but it wasn't the only original color. Are they actually called that in somewhere?

What organizations recognize the other colors of Russians? I haven't even seen much pictures of them so they are rare..? Is the standard same except in coat color?
I'm a bit pushed for time here so will answer quickly. I'm not a fan of the term British Blue either and I hear it all the time here, although the breed is British Shorthair in NZ.

I'll just speak for my organisation since I'm pushed for time so the NZCF www.nzcf.com which is NZ's largest organisation, recognises the other colours of the Russian. Yes, the standard would be the same. Same cat, different colour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
You guys might like the other colors of the Russian. We don't and if you go back 10 or 20 YEARS you will find that the Russian Blues were the ONLY colors in the rings and no one even bred the other colors.

IMO leave the Russian Blues alone and develop the other colors as you wish, but the 2 should be kept separated. There is NO way that mixing the colors in with the blues will retain the beautiful SILVER tipping and the dark GREEN eye color of the Blues. You WILL loose the silver tipping that makes the Russian Blue what it is.
It's a bit like tabbies in Birmans, or colourpoints in Persians or bicolours in Oriental Shorthairs, or *god forbid* stripes in Ocicats (Classicats) or solid ragdolls. If you are a breeder of Russians and you just want Blue Russians, then hey no body is forcing you to breed the other colours.
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post #18 of 23
10/1/10 at 11:34pm
Quote:
It's a bit like tabbies in Birmans, or colourpoints in Persians or bicolours in Oriental Shorthairs, or *god forbid* stripes in Ocicats (Classicats) or solid ragdolls. If you are a breeder of Russians and you just want Blue Russians, then hey no body is forcing you to breed the other colours.
Sounds reasonable... there are only 41 cat breeds in the CFA while the AKC recognizes over 150 dog breeds. A little variety within the breed is cool. Heck, the CFA needs a jump start and some shaking up of it's traditions. Why quash those who are generating some new interest.

Haven't changed my mind about wild blood yet though
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post #19 of 23
10/2/10 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohni View Post

Haven't changed my mind about wild blood yet though
Neither have I!
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post #20 of 23
10/3/10 at 3:58pm
I am a proud traditionalist. My breed comes in one pattern and three colors, and I will not promote anything outside of the current breed standard. If I ever get a classic patterned Mau or a blue, they will go to responsible pet homes. Not every kitten born has to be considered show or breeding quality.

I also think it is wonderful that not all registration associations are the same. Diversity is a good thing! What would be the point of having other registries if all of them were the same?
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post #21 of 23
10/3/10 at 7:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisCat View Post
I am a proud traditionalist. My breed comes in one pattern and three colors, and I will not promote anything outside of the current breed standard. If I ever get a classic patterned Mau or a blue, they will go to responsible pet homes. Not every kitten born has to be considered show or breeding quality.
Well yeah, I personally won't be going outside 'the box' with my program. I just don't get upset if others decide to develop their own breeds. Siamese and Oriental Shorthairs have the same physical standard as far as I understand it. OS just come in a rainbow of colours and I like both varieties!
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post #22 of 23
10/4/10 at 6:52am
Re: Russians. The biggest problem is type on the Russians. Over here in the US we have a slightly different look to the Russian BLUE. The other colors are more to the standard of the NZ ones and have a different head type. When you start crossing in these cats with our Russian Blues, you will change the looks (head/ear set).

That is one of the reasons I and others don't want the other colors mixed in - you will ruin the Blues in more then one way. The only place breeders got the other colors are from the NZ cats!

Re: Ocicats - there is no hiding about the Oci's having classic patterns. That's no problem and its needed to help keep the spotting pattern from becoming too small and looking like spots on a Mau - the classic pattern keeps them larger and more "thumbprint" looking. The only ones that are shown are the spotted pattern - we are not denying they come in other patterns.

Some Ocicat breeders would have no objection to the classic pattern being shown (not sure if as a separate division or as a separate breed) but I have not heard any one say they would be against it. It would not change the breed, like adding colors in the RB's would change the breed.
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post #23 of 23
10/7/10 at 11:28am
I've never seen a Russian Black or White. I don't think they are a common type in the US and it would be very unusual for one to wind up in a shelter.
A lot of times the shelters like to label cats as a breed if they at all resemble that breed, I guess they figure they'll be more likely to be adopted. I can't tell you how many tabby Domestic Longhairs I've seen labeled as Maine Coons or Maine Coon mixes when they had no resemblance to a Maine Coon except for the stripes (and of course not all Maine Coons are tabbies!)
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