The fine line between pet ownership, rescue, and hoarding...

This may be an unpopular subject, but it's something that I really would like to discuss here.

How does one know when their good intentions surrounding pets turn into a hoarding situation?

I have four cats, two dogs, a cockatiel, and a betta fish. I have had other pets in my home including small animals who have now passed. But, currently, I am not looking to open my home to any other small animals and feel confident that, aside from the possible addition of another betta fish or aquatic frog in the future, I have the perfect number of pets for me in my household. So, how did I decide that the animals I currently have under my care are enough?

I live in a large modified 2-family home. My roommate and I live together, but have our own separate living areas. She has her own pets and I have mine. Aside from the dogs, none of the other pets cohabitate together. I have quite a lot of space for my pets and there is no crowding. However, that being said, I don't think that space is necessarily an indicator of how many is too many (there are members here with multiple cats in a relatively small space, but those cats are in a wonderful, loving, and caring environment -- that is not what I'm getting at). Financially, after being unemployed for a couple of months, I am feeling the burn. But, I am able to more than provide for myself and my pets. I do think that finances are important when considering how many pets to have in the home, but I don't think it's the only concern. More than anything, I think that time (the ability to clean regularly and provide a healthy environment for the humans and pets in the home alike) as well as emotional stability (the ability to be present for both yourself and the pets in the home) are what should decide the number of pets in the home...along with the financial responsibility and the ability to house all of the animals and yourself comfortably (this differs from person to person).

I'm having trouble wording this properly, so please bear with me. I hope I'm making sense here. Please keep in mind that this is not meant as an attack on anyone, I'm just trying to have an open, respectful discussion...

I think, as animal lovers, we'd all like to save the neighborhood cats and the pets in the shelters who possibly await euthanasia. And, in many instances, we can do a lot in our communities to work with animals in need. There are many members here who foster and many others who have fostered, but who have adopted their fosters and can no longer take others in without infringing on the well-being of the others. We have members here who do TNR and who volunteer at shelters. I'm sure there are others too who support local shelters monetarily. These are not the situations that concern me. But, what about the individuals who take in every stray or feral cat, but who don't find them homes? What about the ones who take in pregnant females, but never place the kittens and have a continual cycle of new kittens? Eventually, their numbers rise and it makes me wonder what the quality of life is for all of the animals under their care. And, that's not mentioning what the quality of life is for the individual or their family. What about those who don't have the financial means to care for all of those animals and, therefore, they go without proper medical care? What about the cats that are fed less than because the owner has accumulated too many? There are other situations as well that make me wonder, but the issue is that every situation is different. How does one determine when too much is too much? And, as a cat lover myself, how can I not be concerned when I read of a member that has, what appears to me, and as exorbitant number of cats? I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here on the forum, but these are questions and concerns that I have.

All of my animals eat quality pet food (and, by quality, I don't necessarily mean expensive -- they eat what works for me budget-wise and what they need in order to be healthy) and receive both preventative and emergency vet care. I have time to clean their litter pans as well as the house and provide a safe living space for both myself and them. I have the ability to give them all individualized attention and meet their needs -- not just physically, but emotionally as well. I know when one of my pets is unwell and I can be conscious about what is going on in my home. I know there are many people who can have many more pets than I do in the home and still provide the same level of care. But, there are others who I don't think can manage the pets that they have. We read about them in the health forums and we see patterns arise throughout the rest of the site. I don't want to cause trouble or open a can of worms, but I can't pretend that it doesn't worry me when I read or see (in my community as well) some troubling things.

What is your opinion on this situation? How does one know when there is one too many? Again, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone and don't harbor any ill feelings for anybody on this website. I'm just merely opening this up for a discussion.

I hope I'm not coming off as rude or holier than thou. I certainly do not feel that way. But, I think sometimes the fine line between pet ownership and hoarding blurs and I would like to know others' opinions or experiences on the matter.

For me it IS all about care, both financially AND emotionally. All the time I get "You have HOW many cats?!?" in a very condesending voice and although I have gotten used to it, it drives Dana nuts, let alone when they hear that we foster as well.

I invite anyone who even questions my ability to come into my home, to see how my own cats, as well as my fosters live. Anyone who has seen their pictures can see how healthy, shiney and beautiful my babies are and I adore them. Even with all of the animals in my home, there is no odor. Simply put I KNOW I would not have these animals there if I could not properly care for them in every way, shape and form. As much as I love cats, of course I want what's best for them.

I have savings set aside in case of emergencies that is used for kitty care and kitty care only. I interact with my babies, I give them treats, pets, toys, everything. They are my life, and I wouldn't have it any other way. As for fostering, everyone at the shelter says that I am by far the #1 foster mom when it comes to the health of the cats when I care for them, to the fact that I am great at finding forever homes for my fosters. I'm not trying to brag, but I am so proud and thankful for this!

I know that a lot of people out there mean well but get in over their heads. I thinks you have to know your limits, have a great support system (I have Dana and my family.) and you have to be able to provide. What drives me nuts more than anything are the real hoarders who give people like ME a bad name.

For me, when I had seven, I didn't know how many was enough. Now that I have nine, I realize it was seven.

Seriously, though...I think if you're of sound, rational mind (which I'm not, so I guess this is more or less hypothetical on my part), you wake up one day, look around you (or, on top of you) and you realize you're at your limit. Like exploring the lean angle on a motorcycle though, sometimes you don't know how far until it's too far. And you wake up in the hospital with a broken collarbone. But I digress.

It's funny too, because, even though I only have a 2-bedroom apartment (with many modified provisions for them to "go vertical"), they spend most of their time around one another. So, thankfully, the kitties' happiness is the least of my worries; they have a ball with each other and love their life. The obstacle is me, primarily with space. I'm just thankful I was able to say "when", because I'm not a person that says "no" to anyone or anything.

Oh, and about those two extra I picked up when I had a "perfect" seven? Wouldn't trade those crazy kittens for anything in the world.

The people you see posting in the health section are not really completely representative of the regulars on here. You get a lot of people that only post when they have a problem, and many are still resistant about admitting there is a problem (see UTI warnings in the behavior section all the time).

I feel safe say that none of the regulars here who will be posting in this thread are the irresponsible ones.

And yes, I cut corners and try to save money when I can. How? I repurpose and make things for my cats. Most of their toys are hand made (safer that way) and instead of multiple cat trees and store bought scratching post they have large boxes and furniture I've made.

I'm at my limit for pets. Not because of space or money, just because I cannot take care of anymore. Mentally and physically, this is it. (9 cats, 6 geckos, and 9 turtles - maybe, though unlikely, I'll get other lizards in the future after BIL moves out)
I didn't want to take in the last three cats, but there are no resources for ferals. Those fostering cats vary between dog people with cat experience and well meaning people with very little experience (and an abusive young child). Besides they were slated for AC pick up in the morning. I kept them because nobody wants a kitten that their young child can't drag around.
I'll help others with advice, supplies, and even some money. But no more are coming into my home, even if that sounds selfish.

And that's where the line gets drawn. It's not that fine IMO.

I know I have quite a few here.
To me the hardest thing is turning down a cat-I know theres sooo many at a few different apartments-not just ferals but dumped pets. I look at craigslist everyday(offer assistance for food/vet care in form of supplies not cash, or pay for cat to get fixed onto vet tab) Go to petsmart and see all the adoptables or online. I think the most botehrsome I see is the free kittens at the food stores board

Far as keeping cats-I would love to keep them all but like the litter sister "donated to me" mom who has 3 is taking 4 of those and the mom will go back-she has an owner there whos pretty much a small scale hoarder in my opinion-6 cats from what I gather but always has kittens/half grown adults...not sure where they go after as sister has seen some disapear-be it shelter or another resident takes them in(LARGE complex).

the ones I had just now all got fixed early-not even 3 months old. To be sure there would be no oops bro/sister mated. 2 boys were held back(heart issue that needs ultrasound possibly, and one who was so small...whats the difference as hes barely 3 months old and no girls left.

Money is a factor-obviously but it can be dealt with(no not buy not buying litter and feeding cheap as can dry. My guys all get a name brand dry(at times purina at times science diet with lots of friskies wet food daily. key is you learn the bargains. how to shop sales the best way possible. Stockpile when its good(that would be why I have a table full of large bags of food and about 10 cases of the 13 oz friskies and litter to go months in advance.

Caring for them is something else. I am lucky my husbands got a great job and we can afford for me to stay home-as if I was working ft I really would be stretching myself to give them the attention they need!.

Some days a couple may feel like to much if all have the runs or puking hairballs...or moving

I know what I have now is a bit nuts at times but more cause the kittens can destroy a freshly cleaned room in minutes(oh goody a water pan to swim in...mommy loves us)

Online I will say my numbers in real life I keep it to just the vet/petstore. I met a worker at a nearby grocery and shes made a comment how I must have what she has, I started talking to her to find out she had 12 or 14...one fixed male all others intact/pregnant cause"i love the kittens, and the shelter is no kill" i was in shock so i was like which shelter? and she said the county one...yeah I tried to explain they may have periods of less kittens but not no kill by any stretch.

I know in my city theres a lady with 50 all breeding in house and I know someone who went to take kittens...its BAD ac is involved or about to be


so my overview on this is(no real order)
1-all are fixed by breeding age(or kept from breeding if medical unable to)
2-fed fresh food, fresh water.
3-space-not the each cat needs 2 rooms but within limits. can they run/play tag/get away from eachother as they wish?
4-clean litter, clean floors, nothing should be living in its own waste. accidents happen-leaving it there till maggots come or something to that affect is NO GOOD

I, too, feel safe in admitting that I don't think anyone with a hoarding issue would be posting in this thread. Nor do I think that any regulars to this site are what I would consider to be hoarders. My question wasn't based on what I necessarily see on these forums, but, rather, I used some examples from this website to back up what I was trying to get at. I, in no way, think that some of our members with multiple cats have issues with hoarding. Rather, I was opening up the discussion about individuals who truly do hoard and who are not represented on this forum.

This came about due to a number of conversations that I have had with individuals in the recent past as well as some situations I have been made aware of. One was at a vet clinic I no longer take my animals to. The vet tech had 47 cats and kittens -- most of whom were not spayed or neutered and who had health issues. Her reasoning was that she liked having a constant flow of kittens around. And, another individual I have recently heard about rescues every cat or kitten that comes to her door, but never rehomes them. Instead, she takes them in and provides food and water, but no veterinary or health care. And, now, she is being investigated since she has so many animals in the home that neighbors are complaining about the odor emanating from her home. Another situation has unfolded locally as well with a woman who had 50+ cats. The city became aware of what was going on and has given a rescue organization until mid-October to find homes for as many cats as possible or else they will be euthanized. And, lastly, there are two individuals in my own family who I consider to have an issue with hoarding (I am estranged from them, but am working with other family members to try to decipher what the issue is and how to handle it as we move forward). I won't go into the details here at this time, but it is a very upsetting issue and one that I am trying to better understand -- especially since I am working in an environment now that lends itself to seeing animals in inhumane situations.

I didn't mean to imply that anyone on this site has an issue with hoarding. And, I apologize if it came out that way. Yes, I think we have all read the posts where individuals forego medical treatment for their pet due to financial restraints or feed a poor diet because of ignorance or the ability to afford something better. And, I can't formulate anything but an initial opinion on those situations since those people are usually the kind of members who join, ask a few questions, and then disappear -- they do not represent TCS. I hope no one feels the need to defend themselves on this thread. It is not meant as an attack and no one member or group of members was in mind when I posted it. If I had such concerns, I would not be posting them here.

For me, I just wanted to open up a discussion on cat ownership, cat rescue and foster, and hoarding. It's such a sensitive topic, but one that is all too common in today's society. I think, as loving cat (and other pet) owners, we have insight on the line between helping and hoarding. I, for one, am just interested in exploring the topic. Again, my apologies if I came across as judgemental toward any members here. It was certainly not my intention. Rather, I have chosen to discuss this topic here because we have such wonderful, caring, and responsible pet owners and advocates on TCS.

Oh, I didn't think you were attacking anyone. But maybe referencing some posts in the health section that might have upset you a bit. Those who only care about getting an answer that won't cost them money or require any effort on their part are extremely frustrating.

I don't know if hoarding is getting more common or if it's simply a combination of media and people actually reporting stuff now. Hoarding isn't simply people just keeping too much of something, it is a mental disorder. Maybe society breaks some people into falling into this? Or maybe these people would have been locked away in institutions in the past by family.

ETA: I was thinking in the car earlier on the way to drop supper off to DH at work. I believe the biggest difference between a hoarder and a non-hoarder is simply how they look at things around them. They don't see things as unacceptable, don't see illness, or mass breeding as bad. Others (in the cases of keeping stuff and trash) don't see keeping largely useless things as anything problematic. The rest of us look and our brains immediately reject it as something wrong (ie: keeping massive amounts of trash in the house, letting litter boxes overflow with feces, etc). So again, big big line.

We have six furkids, ranging in age from 16 down to 7 months. The geriatric kids (4 of them) have vet appts every six months.....at least, sometimes it's more often, simply because we worry about them. When Banshee was alive, she suffered from both asthma and thyroid problems...she saw the vet at least four times a year. Everybody has dentals once a year, except for the 16-year olds, who our vet feels are just too old for anesthesia at this point.

They don't get the best food, simply because they refuse to eat "quality" food. Even Mollipop who was started out on Blue Buffalo and Royal Canin kitten food, tired of it very quickly and started eating what the big cats eat. And that's cans of Friskies Buffet. And Purina Indoor Chow. And yes, I know, it's junk food. But believe me, we've tried a lot of the foods and really, what does it matter how good the food is if the cats won't eat it? And mine simply will not. Besides, 16-year old cats? Hydrox was 20 when he developed breast cancer. Darn it, we're doing something right.

The cats drink bottled spring water all the time. We never give them our well water. Both Hydrox and BooBoo developed crytals, so they've been on spring water for years.

They have lots of toys, pillows and bed strewn about the house, and plenty of food, treats, and Sip. Most of our windows now have catnappers; the bay window in the living room has a custom-made pillow that's just right for kitty-butts.

The cats allow us to share our bed with them. In the winter months, the electric blanket is turned on whenever we're home. We keep our house fairly cool and those old kitty-bones can use the extra warmth from the blanket.

Yes, they get on my nerves sometimes, esp at 4:00 in the morning when they decide they want breakfast. And then I could spit nickels. And I hate the hairballs and the cling-ons sometimes.

But you know what? The velvet ears and the furry muzzles? The beautiful eyes? The tail twitches? Having "help" no matter what we're doing in the house? The sound of a kitty purring in our ears, yes, even at 4:00 in the morning? The softness of our cats' fur when we're cuddling with them? The look of utter contentment and peace when a kitty with a full belly is kneading my neck as she falls asleep? Those are the things that DH and I live for. Those are the things that we love.

We figured out a long time ago that six is our limit. There is simply no way we can have more than that in our (excuse me, their) home. We have the finances, the love and the attention to care for six cats. We know that. We've talked about taking another cat or two, especially when we see kitties outside who could use a nice home and regular meals. But we can't. We just can't. So we do the best we can with the ones who share our lives with us. And since our house is small, we can't foster either.....and I wouldn't be able to give up a foster kitty anyway. I don't how those of you who foster regularly can do that and my hat goes off to all foster moms! You guys go the extra mile!

I apologize for this very long post. But it's how I feel. Our furkids mean everything to us.

For me, three is my financial and emotional limit. Two have CRF and the other has crystals and chronic UTIs. I spend a fortune on vet visits, medications and special food. Things might be different if all of my cats weren't special needs....but probably not. I feel like I'm able to spend quality time with each cat, every day. That's important to me.

I grew up in a home were we actualy rehabbed animals--at one time we had 9 cats, 5 dogs--none small btw, 14 turtles, 4 cockatoos, 5 green parrots, a bunch of guppies and other assorted fish and some budgies. My parents rehabbed robins, racoons, a bobcat, several geese and a few other critters that people would come wandering in with.

In our house we are looking after 2 cats only as that is all my wife and I can afford to actually take care of.

We do look after some ferals that live in our semi-sorta kinda heated driveshed--that we keep open so they have shelter though

I have had up to 7 cats/dogs and fish... Currently 4 cats and 1 dog( plus I run a pet sitting doggy daycare so usually more on weekends ) ... For me I realized quickly that no more than 2 dogs of my own and 6 cats without any other critters as that is the max I can give quality time , love , food and vet care to without stressing myself ...

Early in the year I had 10 cats under my roof and for me that was too much... 4 of them kittens under 6 months old .... one was a lost cat , four were fosters... and Like Hissy I charged a rehome fee and did the vet care they needed...

Would the stress point be different for all? Yes.... I know folks on here that can and do handle 30 plus animals a day

Hoarding is about not letting go of the cats under your care. Not providing for their welfare, although most hoarders would argue that they love their cats so much. For me, my numbers are high now because the economy is in the tank. No one in my area wants to add another mouth to feed in these uncertain times, so even my kittens aren't moving. Plus I don't "get rid" (Ugh i HATE that term so much!) I find them loving homes and there is an adoption fee charged for each kitten. I even reduced the fee down by $10.00 and still the kittens aren't leaving. So they stay here. I have them listed everywhere I can think of and still nothing.

I am out of rescue now- my husband needs more or my time and is unable to assist with bottle babies, scooping litter pans or even feeding the cats so it all falls on me. I sometimes question if I am a hoarder, but there are over 500 families out there with loving kittens in their home that would disagree that is what I am all about. Plus my vet bill which is extensive, currently says I rescue not hoard- it is just recently in the last two years when the kittens coming in are no longer healthy and vibrant- but very, very ill. I see diseases getting smarter and vet medicine in small towns unable to keep up. So it is time to leave rescue before it zaps me completely- and yes, it is hard for me to say no- but I really can't do this anymore. My inn is full.

Easy!

Hoarding is when you can't stop.

The result is a home that is unkept, smelly, and the cats look mangy/tangled because of lack of care.

Your home is covered with cat hair because you have no time to clean. And you can't keep up with the feedings, play, gooming, cleaning of the animals in your care.

And you also can't afford health care beyond the basic feeding of the cats. However, this particular one could apply to even one cat if the person falls on hard times. So you have to take into account the stuff I said above.

I think your limit is individualized and right now I can afford only one maybe two cats but I am planning on going back to school and even thought work will pay for school they won't pay for the gas to go to school and well that adds up but once I get through with school maybe at most I could handle 4-6 cats but it would depend on my situtation at that time. and I am just happy I finally talked my dad into letting me have one cat. Everyone has to decide what their limit is but that being said my mother has 20 + cats and one litter box and the cats are not fixed or cared for properly and so I actually called the animal control on her. I felt for the cats and 6-7 dogs well being and 2 rabbits and the birds as well as being concerned for her. The dogs for the most part were not potty trained and went every where and she had a mountain of fleas and roaches and the house when I went into it my nose burned from the amonia and the walls were black halfway up from it and you could barely walk in there. Now whether they did anything I don't know because I haven't been there since 2007 but I know they showed up but not sure if it did any good.

When I got into breeding Rexes, I had decided on how many adult cats (including spay/neuters) that I would have in the house - the number was 6. I felt that this was the max I could handle in expenses, food, vet care, etc. Also the emotional needs of the cats have to be kept in mind - some want more attention then others.

And keep in mind that the more you have in your house, the less likely you will be able to go on any kind of vacation. Its hard to find someone to come in and care of the pets when you are gone.

When you are cutting back on your own expenses (health, food) so you can feed the pets, then you have too many. And if you are neglecting vet care and not affording to neuter/spay, you have too many.

As much as I love all animals I have enough sense to know where to draw the line in how many are in the house. Right now we have 3 (2 cats/1 dog) and in the spring will have another kitten (show Ocicat). But this will be our limit (my and my husband's decision together) - no more unless one passes away.

Animal hoarding is a compulsive problem where the person continually wants more animals. No number is enough. When they get a new one, they immediately want more. Not "I want to save one more" but "I want another cat/dog/whatever", then they justify it by saying they are saving them. Then the situation spirals out of control. A hoarder feels as though they need those animals and they can't emotionally give them over to another person's care, even if they know other person (or rescue organization) would provide the animals with better care. A hoarder will also continue to obtain/take in more animals to their own detriment.

That fine line, for me, is defined by knowledge and commitment. When you're committed to rescue, you're informed, and you WANT TO STOP THE BREEDING. If you do not adhere to this main tenet, you may be helping to save lives, but you are not a rescuer.

I think it's important to note, there is a HUGE difference between people who get in over their heads and hoarders. Hoarding is a psychological illness. Someone who got in over their head may have cats that are ill and not receiving proper care, the home may not be as sanitary as it should be, and it may get to a point that the ASPCA or animal control may need to step in and "help" - but you will not find dead cat carcasses under the couches.

Hoarding is an illness. A Tufts University Project promotes understanding. Here is the definition on the Hoarding of Animals Research Consortium (HARC) website: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/hoarding/abthoard.htm#A1

I am flabbergasted by the story of the vet tech with 47 cats - enjoying the constant flow of kittens. This can't be ascribed to a lack of education - though that is someone to whom I would definitely provide info on US euthanasia rates and shelter stats. You want a constant flow of kittens? FOSTER, don't generate more! I would definitely do more than just boycott that clinic. I'd write a letter and provide information. I'd also look up contact info for local foster networks and locate shelters with foster programs to provide the informational so that person can look into fostering cats officially with organizations that work to rehome the animals.

People who get in over their heads know they're in over their heads, and take steps to address it. They may skimp on food or care for a while to make it "over the hump," but the cats - for the most part - get care. But denial is an important part of the distinction between hoarding and being in over your head.

Originally Posted by trimph1

I grew up in a home were we actualy rehabbed animals--at one time we had 9 cats, 5 dogs--none small btw, 14 turtles, 4 cockatoos, 5 green parrots, a bunch of guppies and other assorted fish and some budgies. My parents rehabbed robins, racoons, a bobcat, several geese and a few other critters that people would come wandering in with.

In our house we are looking after 2 cats only as that is all my wife and I can afford to actually take care of.

We do look after some ferals that live in our semi-sorta kinda heated driveshed--that we keep open so they have shelter though

Click to expand...

Do you have the ferals spayed and neutered?

Originally Posted by LDG

That fine line, for me, is defined by knowledge and commitment. When you're committed to rescue, you're informed, and you WANT TO STOP THE BREEDING. If you do not adhere to this main tenet, you may be helping to save lives, but you are not a rescuer.

Click to expand...

Oh a somewhat related note. There are also those who take in various animals: reptiles, birds, small exotics, etc and call themselves rescuers but turn around and breed or sell them (or sell to breeders). It's a big issue with reptile and bird rescue.

Hubby and I agreed on three in the house. The third one took a little coercing the hubby, sitting down and seeing if we could afford it, etc. We could probably afford more, but we are comfortable at this amount.

We take care of a few ferals/abandoneds outside. Tom Cat was fixed last year during a Feline Fix Day, $25 for neuter and shots. Evil Kitty (abandoned by a coworker at my house) was fixed & vacc'd after we got her back near the house. There's Momma Cat and her single kitten out there still that we plan to trap and fix. We've noticed the quantity of cats plummet from the last few years in our little neighborhood and hope it has something to do with our part in fixing them. We will get Momma Cat fixed, even if it costs the normal price.

Everything mentioned above is what I'd have to say about hoarding. I've been watching the hoarding shows a lot lately, but have only watched one of the animal hoarding shows.