Comments from Judges?

We have asked judges to evaluate our cats and kittens offline. There are so many varying opinions. They focus on different attributes. But if you have a consistent message like "that it is a nice cat" you know your on to something.

In the ring it's nice when they point out the certain traits that are the best. Or what thing they liked about the cat.

That's how judging is done here, they talk about what they like or don't on each cat.
We have to ask the visiting American judges to do the same They usually do once prompted as I understand it's done differently over there.

What's the point of going to a cat show if you can't hear the comments?

I've inherited a non-stop talking technique from my grandparents while judging.

Right, Fife judges in Europe are also supposed to talk a lot and give their comments. Oh, sure, there are points for everything, but the judge usually dont say them aloud, possibly writes down in the protocol. You can anyway understand from the comments where the cat got lotsa points, and where - not maximum...
So what are the american judges doing? just giving points aloud?

But sometimes the judge does slip some half private comment. Yes it happens. And these comments are usually appreciated - even if sour and unfair negative.
At worst they become a merry anecdote about the judge. But at best - they are a gold worth suggestions and advices for this breeder.. Even if not so flattering to the cat individual.

But they usually try to be nice and friendly. Like for our stud Vagis first wife, a lovely russian blue female, although more than somewhat on the fat side (RB are supposed to be slender and elegant, although with good muscles): "Excellent Appetite" did he wrote down!

I would rather hear as much of their impression of my cat (both positives and negatives) as possible. I like the judges who talk a lot. I know at some shows in other parts of the world they get more balanced critiques. The judges I have seen so far in America seem to mostly only mention the good points in the ring though I've heard a few judges who did say something about some aspect of a cat they didn't think was so ideal. But usually it seems like you have to talk to them privately and ask them specifically to get that. I guess maybe they are cautious because of hearing about people complaining. but I should think breeders should WANT to hear the good and the bad according to each judge's assessment.

Remember that cat shows are not all about breeders benefiting from a judge evaluating the good and bad points about a specific cat. A good breeder will/should and needs to know more about the written standard for their breed of cat than a judge does. A judge looks at all these different breeds and can know them well, but the breeder working with one breed of cat should be able to run circles around a judge in their knowledge of that cats standard.
A big part of cat shows are the spectators (at least in the US), so the clubs ask judges to be positive in their evaluations of the cats, because these spectators are listening and the judges comments can either promote the breed or tear it down.

In my opinion the biggest tangible benefit for breeders attending a cat show, is seeing what fellow breeders are producing and bringing to the show. Seeing and maybe touching these other cats within a breed you're working with keeps you in the loop and allows you to compare your own program results with those who are passionate about the same breed.

I can count on one hand,(with fingers left over) the number of judges who's opinion of one of my cats would give me pause to consider if I should make a change in my breeding program.

I do think hearing the judges comment on cats they like has it's place in the show hall. The spectators like it, the breeder/owner of the cat gets a thrill out of it, but unless that judge is a breeder of that particular breed of cat, I think negative comments should be made in private. I have heard judges get it wrong out loud and it's quite uncomfortable.

Those are good points, of course the judges can't know every breed as its breeders do and come to think of it, the few times when I have heard even a somewhat critical thing expressed in front of the spectators was when they were a breeder of that breed so it was more likely to be right.
I am just new at this and curious what they are thinking and part of it is I'm wondering if they DO have it right. That's especially pertinent because right now i am showing a breed in TICA that is new in championship so there is still definitely a need for an ongoing dialogue and education (actually that is probably true for many breeds but especially for ones that judges have not seen as much ) Of course in championship we can't have that more open dialogue in the ring like in the New Breed classes. But it's important to get to know what the judges are thinking including if there's some part of the standard they are perhaps not understanding or not remembering or not paying attention to, so as to know what points to emphasize in breed seminars etc so when possible we can try to talk to them for a minute privately later.

I certainly agree! In TICA you will see some judges refer to their breed standard manual while they are judging a cat. This shows me that this judge is questioning his/her knowledge of the breed and is verifying that the correct assessment is being made on this particular cat. I would much rather see a judge do this, rather than "wing it" pretending to know something they don't.
All that does is make the breeders who know the standard, shake their heads.

Most breeds have a comittee of elected members. This is where judges need to get their official imformation on breed standards and changes or modifications. But, I do think judges who are a little shaky on the new breeds can learn alot from the breeders who are working with those cats. As long as they don't take it all as gospel, and do go back to the comittee for confirmation that what is being said is correct.

Now of course all these standards are subject to be interpreted slightly different by each judge, so you have that thrown into the mix as well. Then there is the human emotion factor. As example, you have 2 Maine Coons competing. One is the epitome of the standard, but has an attitude problem. The other could be better in the ears, the ruff could be bigger and perhaps more time could have been spent on grooming, but the cat is kissing up to the judge, parading around and getting the spectators to laugh at it's antics on the podium. Guess which is going to get Best of Breed most of the time?

In TICA there are no points awarded for temperament......at least not offically!

I would definitely rather they refer to the standard than just wing it out of not wanting to take time or not wanting to look like they did not have it all memorized. It makes me respect that they are being careful.

Exactly. I relay comments from judges back to the breed chairperson.
And all during the new breed process that was what was going on, exhibitors were sharing details from shows with the chair as well as with other members of the breed club.
The judges can learn a lot in the new breed classes. They can ask questions of the exhibitors like what they see as what is best about their cat's conformation and what is worst, or what order they would place the cats in if they had to rank them and why. Or they can ask whether certain cats are related to other cats they have seen, which gives them an idea of how consistent the different lines are within the breed.
But of course the judges should not take everything said during those discussions as absolute. People are coming with differing levels of knowledge and experience and also may have conflicting opinions (probably especially in early days within the process).

Yeah it says in the standards they can try to get away and can complain aloud. But in reality that does make a difference!

Unless, you have an HHP. Then it's a HUGE difference. It's what messed TC up at last year's annual. Pretty boy. Rotten attitude.

Right! I did forget about how they judge the HHP's.

I'm only familiar with Fifé shows, so I usually get realistic comments from what is good and what is bad in my cats. The judges evaluate everything in the cat and tell you what they see and think. There was only one time when I felt the judge wasn't quite familiar with the breed, or then he just happened to have a very good day.. He adored Kuura and couldn't find anything 'wrong' with him, said that Kuura was propably the best silver shaded BSH he had seen (note that they are not that rare over here). Of course it was very nice to hear a judge talk like that, but the fact is that Kuura does have few obvious 'faults' I think he should have mentioned. The judge is very nice however, always happy and everyone likes him and he has been judging for years and knows my breed, so I guess he was just in a very good mood. I want to hear an honest opinion of my cats if I take them to be judged.

They would be helpful.