TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › Church plans Quran-burning event
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Church plans Quran-burning event

post #1 of 58
8/19/10 at 12:40pm
Thread Starter 
This pastor and his flock really need to get a grip.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/29/flo...day/index.html
I am so glad that I look to God instead of these other "Christians." For the record, and before reigniting the intolerant thread, I believe most of us vehemently disapprove, Christian or not.
Reply
post #2 of 58
8/19/10 at 1:00pm
They'll probably use the Harry Potter books for kindling
Reply
post #3 of 58
8/19/10 at 3:26pm
There are some that are so convinced they must be "persecuted" that they'll go to great lengths to create enemies where none exist and bring it on themselves. They must think they get some kind of "persecution points" for it or something.
Reply
post #4 of 58
8/19/10 at 3:33pm
This is horrible. What are they trying to achieve by asking people to burn a holy book?
On a positive note I went to Facebook to report the group as being a hate group and it's already gone.

But there is another groups that calls itself "Christian" - a conservative "Family Group" that now thinks that no mosques should ever be built in the US at all.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...48-503544.html
Reply
post #5 of 58
8/19/10 at 4:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
This is horrible. What are they trying to achieve by asking people to burn a holy book?
On a positive note I went to Facebook to report the group as being a hate group and it's already gone.

But there is another groups that calls itself "Christian" - a conservative "Family Group" that now thinks that no mosques should ever be built in the US at all.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...48-503544.html
Incredible. As mentioned in the mosque thread, it's happening in this country of religious freedom.
Reply
post #6 of 58
8/19/10 at 4:29pm
I like to think that reason, tolerance, and the normally open nature of Americans to welcome friends will win out. But this serously disturbs me. I hate posting a wikipedia link, but this group has the distinction of now being the latest in a sad history of burning books that represent something that a group disagrees with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning

I'm beginning the find the parallels chilling
Quote:
In a symbolic act of ominous significance, on May 10, 1933 the students burned upwards of 25,000 volumes of "un-German" books, presaging an era of state censorship and control of culture. On the night of May 10, in most university towns, nationalist students marched in torchlight parades "against the un-German spirit." The scripted rituals called for high Nazi officials, professors, rectors, and student leaders to address the participants and spectators. At the meeting places, students threw the pillaged and unwanted books into the bonfires with great joyous ceremony, band-playing, songs, "fire oaths," and incantations. In Berlin, some 40,000 people gathered in the Opernplatz to hear Joseph Goebbels deliver a fiery address: “No to decadence and moral corruption!” Goebbels enjoined the crowd. “Yes to decency and morality in family and state! I consign to the flames the writings of Heinrich Mann, Ernst Gläser, Erich Kästner.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings

Could it happen here?
Reply
post #7 of 58
8/20/10 at 9:45am
Thread Starter 
I watched a short interview with this "pastor" on the news this morning. He actually said that this book burning is not against the peaceful Muslims, just the radical ones. Of course he ignored the question "How is it NOT against the peaceful Muslims when you are burning their holy book?" Then he called the Quaran a book of lies.
Reply
post #8 of 58
8/20/10 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
I like to think that reason, tolerance, and the normally open nature of Americans to welcome friends will win out. But this serously disturbs me. I hate posting a wikipedia link, but this group has the distinction of now being the latest in a sad history of burning books that represent something that a group disagrees with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning

I'm beginning the find the parallels chilling

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings

Could it happen here?
The parallels do indeed cause some concern. Especially when one realizes that it was shortly after it reached the point of burning "un-German" books that a madman used the banner of nationalism to lead that mostly Christian nation on one of the bloodiest episodes of ethnic cleansing in recorded history.
Reply
post #9 of 58
8/20/10 at 11:17am
Religious freedom doesn't always equate to tolerance...just sayin'.

I'm not taking one side one or the other in any of these discusions, but pastor of that church needs to study up on history. Violence in the name of religion isn't a one sided affair. The spread of Christianity has also had more than its share of blood filled moments. Muslims fought against Christians. Christians fought against Muslims. Muslims and Christians fought against the Jews. The Hebrews did quite a bit of butt-kicking themselves to lay claim to the "Promised Land". To take it a step further, Muslims slaughtered Muslims, and Christians slaughtered Christians just for not simply believing the exact same as they do. Then there is that "lovely" period known as the Spanish Inquisition. Nice (<-- sarcasm).
Reply
post #10 of 58
8/22/10 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post

Could it happen here?
I would have never thought so...would have never thought so many of my fellow Americans would feel such hatred of 1.5 billion people based on religion alone. Those people are becoming what they perceive they despise.

IMO, this is scary, scary business. So many are squawking about how they think Muslims are, they're blind to their own faults and foibles. I would never have believed so many Americans are so ready to deny the rights of others, which is tantamount to burning the constitution, and they're the ones lighting the match.
Reply
post #11 of 58
8/22/10 at 10:58pm
The similarities to the Kristallnacht are chilling. In 1938, a Polish Jew assassinated a German diplomat in France. An actual crime, a murder...by one Jew. In 2001, a terrorist attack, an actual crime, murder...by 19 Saudi Muslims.

Every Jew in Germany, be they German, Polish, Belguim...it made no difference; they were all held responsible, just as all Muslims are being held responsible for 9-11. There were no trials, the military and Hitler youths took care of everything. Synagogues and places of worship were taken over and the Jews forced out. Pushed out of their neighborhoods into "proper places". Just as their is a concerted effort to push the New York Muslims into their "proper places".

Now we progress to burning books. Like I said earlier, a fellow named Santayana told us about things like this a long, long time ago.

When they start going after the legal immigrant firearms purchases, then we'll know for sure.
Reply
post #12 of 58
9/8/10 at 7:41am
According to the FBI, Muslims are way down on the list of hate-crime victims. ANY is too much, but it's easy to jump to the conclusion that there are many more than there are. And we assume that Muslims are far and away the most victims. In fact, when it comes to religion, 66% of the hate crimes were against Jews; less than 8% were against Muslims.

2008 FBI Hate Crime Statistics

However, as to the Koran burning situation, I would have to use a familiar phrase these days:

"It is, of course, completely legal, protected by the first amendment, but it is unwise, poorly advised, unnecessarily provocative, and not intended to build brigdges between peoples."
Reply
post #13 of 58
9/8/10 at 8:10am
As a Christian I find this insulting. Jesus talked of acceptance and love not hate.
Reply
post #14 of 58
9/8/10 at 9:37am
I had someone post something about this on facebook. I sarcastically replied that perhaps we should burn some bibles- ya know, as a tribute to the victims of the crusades... a very Christian, near extremist that I went to high school responded with something along the lines of "That wouldn't solve anything! Bibles should never be burnt!" Yet she isn't entirely against the Quran burning. Confusing, eh?
Reply
post #15 of 58
9/8/10 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
According to the FBI, Muslims are way down on the list of hate-crime victims. ANY is too much, but it's easy to jump to the conclusion that there are many more than there are. And we assume that Muslims are far and away the most victims. In fact, when it comes to religion, 66% of the hate crimes were against Jews; less than 8% were against Muslims.

2008 FBI Hate Crime Statistics

However, as to the Koran burning situation, I would have to use a familiar phrase these days:

"It is, of course, completely legal, protected by the first amendment, but it is unwise, poorly advised, unnecessarily provocative, and not intended to build brigdges between peoples."
The phrase may "fit" in some ways, but I find it repugnant to use it in this situation. The one group is attempting to build while the other is attempting to destroy. I don't know who said it originally, but I'm reminded of the phrase "Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one."
Reply
post #16 of 58
9/8/10 at 11:39am
I feel that this action is very extreme. However, I don't agree with the point of view that this action will endanger our troops. They are already in danger. If I were this particular pastor, or a member of this church, I would be looking over my shoulder.
Reply
post #17 of 58
9/8/10 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
I feel that this action is very extreme. However, I don't agree with the point of view that this action will endanger our troops. They are already in danger. If I were this particular pastor, or a member of this church, I would be looking over my shoulder.
Personally, I don't see how it could NOT increase the level of danger. Many Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan are working with US troops trying to rebuild their countries and fight against extremism. If the extremists can use acts like this to convince them that the US is in a war against Islam, and not just against extremists, then all those allies we currently have could become enemies. One would think the US had learned it's lesson in 1950 about creating enemies where none would have existed.
Reply
post #18 of 58
9/8/10 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
ANY is too much
This says it all Comparing percentages is kind of meaningless.

Besides, when they stack 100 instances of graffiti and vandalism against 1 instance of a slashed throat and a couple of fatal shootings, it's a bit misleading, to say the least.
Reply
post #19 of 58
9/8/10 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
I feel that this action is very extreme. However, I don't agree with the point of view that this action will endanger our troops. They are already in danger. If I were this particular pastor, or a member of this church, I would be looking over my shoulder.
Quote:
A military spokesman says General David Petraeus and President Hamid Karzai agreed that the burning would undermine the NATO effort in Afghanistan, and endanger coalition troops and civilians.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/09...burning-koran/

I'm inclined to take General Petraeus' word for it.
Reply
post #20 of 58
9/8/10 at 12:51pm
He's a fool and so are his believers. His act is going to put all our troops in danger- if the media wouldn't have covered it in the first place, he wouldn't have had his 5 minutes in the spotlight. I believe that his agenda is based on hatred to other religions, not the love of Jesus.
Reply
post #21 of 58
9/8/10 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/09...burning-koran/

I'm inclined to take General Petraeus' word for it.
I usually get shot down when I post the FoxNews link, but I am not going to do that here. I did in fact read it afer you posted the link. I agree with what he said. Also, I agree with what Skippy posted that I had not thought of. If the extremists use this to project that the war is against Islam, not extremists, yes I agree it could cause additional problems for our military. It is sad that these people are doing this and I feel things like this are what puts a bad taste in people's mouths when they think about Christians. I just hope everyone will remember they are only one church, one small group of people in a country of many Christians. Their energy and efforts might need to be constructive instead of destructive.
Reply
post #22 of 58
9/8/10 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
I usually get shot down when I post the FoxNews link, but I am not going to do that here. I did in fact read it afer you posted the link. I agree with what he said. Also, I agree with what Skippy posted that I had not thought of. If the extremists use this to project that the war is against Islam, not extremists, yes I agree it could cause additional problems for our military. It is sad that these people are doing this and I feel things like this are what puts a bad taste in people's mouths when they think about Christians. I just hope everyone will remember they are only one church, one small group of people in a country of many Christians. Their energy and efforts might need to be constructive instead of destructive.
I completely agree with you. But there is one very important fact to consider, that people like this pastor fail to take into account. The extremists have access to media outlets, sat TV, the internet. A great, great many civilians in the areas our troops are operating in do not. They will often not have access to both sides of the story.

So, they're source of information on this will most likely be whatever the extremists show them, countered against what our troops tell them. If the troops have only reassurances and speeches of American idealism to offer, and the extremists have a fresh-off-the-net DVD of Americans burning Korans, who should we expect them to believe?
Reply
post #23 of 58
9/8/10 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
It is sad that these people are doing this and I feel things like this are what puts a bad taste in people's mouths when they think about Christians. I just hope everyone will remember they are only one church, one small group of people in a country of many Christians. Their energy and efforts might need to be constructive instead of destructive.
Substitute the word "Muslim" for "Christian" and you've expressed exactly what many Muslims feel about terrorists who claim to be acting according to their religion.

But frankly why should anyone wolrdwide believe in the good will, peaceful nature, tolerance etc of Christians in the US anymore, after supposedly 65 % (or whatever the number is) are so vehemently opposed to an Islamic cultural center being built in a former clothing retail store? I certainly don't. I see prominent Jews supporting the Islamic cultural center, perhaps because they know all too well where intolerance leads. Where are the "Christian" leaders in this country?
Reply
post #24 of 58
9/8/10 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
Substitute the word "Muslim" for "Christian" and you've expressed exactly what many Muslims feel about terrorists who claim to be acting according to their religion.

But frankly why should anyone wolrdwide believe in the good will, peaceful nature, tolerance etc of Christians in the US anymore, after supposedly 65 % (or whatever the number is) are so vehemently opposed to an Islamic cultural center being built in a former clothing retail store? I certainly don't. I see prominent Jews supporting the Islamic cultural center, perhaps because they know all too well where intolerance leads. Where are the "Christian" leaders in this country?
I'm not going there to debate that issue again. I already expressed all my feelings about that in the other thread. I am merely expressing my opinion here about what this particular pastor and his church are doing. Once again, I don't agree with it. I haven't read of any other Christian pastors or their members doing a Quran burning.
Reply
post #25 of 58
9/8/10 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
This says it all Comparing percentages is kind of meaningless.

Besides, when they stack 100 instances of graffiti and vandalism against 1 instance of a slashed throat and a couple of fatal shootings, it's a bit misleading, to say the least.
Well, there's a lot of information in those statistics. For example, there were (see Table 7) no religious bias murders. There were 25 aggravated assaults against Jews, and only 5 against Muslims. There were 58 simple assaults against Jews, and 30 against Muslims. There were 201 intimidation cases against Jews, and 48 against Muslims.

Now, I would probably be prepared to suspect that Muslim victims are less likely to report a hate crime than a Jew, just because of their own perceived lack of credibility in the population, but we don't have statistics for that.

I think the Florida pastor is getting an earful from many people. In tuning around the radio this afternoon, I heard Hannity raking him over the coals. I wouldn't be surprised if the event never comes off.
Reply
post #26 of 58
9/8/10 at 3:48pm
Wouldn't it be a great world if all of the religions of the world could control the extremist groups that claim a relationship with them?

If you think that this church is anything other than an extremist group, think again. Kinda catchy - extremist Christian group.

And if you think I'm bashing Christianity, I assure you that I am not. Not anymore than I would bash the Muslim faith.
Reply
post #27 of 58
9/8/10 at 4:01pm
I hope he tries it.
And I hope that it either pours down rain from the skies or that the fire department shows up and hoses down him and his fires.
Reply
post #28 of 58
9/8/10 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
Well, there's a lot of information in those statistics. For example, there were (see Table 7) no religious bias murders. There were 25 aggravated assaults against Jews, and only 5 against Muslims. There were 58 simple assaults against Jews, and 30 against Muslims. There were 201 intimidation cases against Jews, and 48 against Muslims.

Now, I would probably be prepared to suspect that Muslim victims are less likely to report a hate crime than a Jew, just because of their own perceived lack of credibility in the population, but we don't have statistics for that.

I think the Florida pastor is getting an earful from many people. In tuning around the radio this afternoon, I heard Hannity raking him over the coals. I wouldn't be surprised if the event never comes off.
Oh, but there was. It's simply dismissed because the victim only "looked" like a Muslim, which is a stupid defense in it's own right. A Sikh named Sodhi was murdered because he "looked Muslim". And that, is a religious bias murder.

And sadly, I believe that the event will go on. Having a paranoid delusion sometimes called a "persecution complex" requires enemies, and this fellow is going to have enemies even if he has to create them himself.
Reply
post #29 of 58
9/8/10 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Oh, but there was. It's simply dismissed because the victim only "looked" like a Muslim, which is a stupid defense in it's own right. A Sikh named Sodhi was murdered because he "looked Muslim". And that, is a religious bias murder.

And sadly, I believe that the event will go on. Having a paranoid delusion sometimes called a "persecution complex" requires enemies, and this fellow is going to have enemies even if he has to create them himself.
Was that in 2008? I seem to remember that incident...back soon after 9/11, right?

Again, the pastor has every right to hold his book burning. Just as protestors have the right to burn the U.S. flag. I think he realizes that he is being provocative, and that is his problem. I'm not sure the Cordoba House people realize how provocative they are being. That is their problem. I guess we can hope that all of them will see a way to proceed without causing more trouble.
Reply
post #30 of 58
9/8/10 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
I hope he tries it.
And I hope that it either pours down rain from the skies or that the fire department shows up and hoses down him and his fires.
Rain from the skies would be karma, no? Maybe a message from heaven? Interference from the fire department would be unconstitutional, as near as I can tell.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: IMO: In My Opinion
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › Church plans Quran-burning event