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doll face persian - Page 2

post #31 of 58
I breed for the CFA standard and like most breeders that actively show in CFA and are really truely trying to improve the breed I am against ALL breeders that breed "doll face" persians. We breeders that do produce "pets" alter them for just that reason, they are PETS! They do nothing to improve the breed and should not be allowed to breed and make more "pets."

By no means does this mean that they are no good. They are loving and adorable kittens and deserve to be put into homes where they will be spoiled. They are just holding back improving the breed by producing more pets.

If you ask any Persian Exhibitor in CFA about a "pet" breeder they will say that they are BYB's.

Dont mean to be rude, just my opinion.

Elizabeth
post #32 of 58
I have a smooshi faced Persian. My question is: Why does the doll faced Persian hamper the breed? I think they are beautiful. I always wonder about my little Persian, I wonder if he's comfortable with his smooshi face. I'm sure he doesn't know any different, but if he did, would he prefer a "normal" cat face like the doll faced Persians. Why did the breeders decide to change the original face in the first place?
post #33 of 58
I don't understand why breeding doll-faced persians or himalayans would be a dis-service to the breed. In the beginning, persians and himalayans were doll-faced. Now that people have been breeding persians and himalayans with flat faces, look at all the problems they are prone to have - which is not normal. The doll-face is a much healthier face - as confirmed by many veteranarians. I believe that the associations that prefer the flat face as their standard are wrong. IMO.
post #34 of 58
Quote:
I don't understand why breeding doll-faced persians or himalayans would be a dis-service to the breed. In the beginning, persians and himalayans were doll-faced. Now that people have been breeding persians and himalayans with flat faces, look at all the problems they are prone to have - which is not normal. The doll-face is a much healthier face - as confirmed by many veteranarians. I believe that the associations that prefer the flat face as their standard are wrong. IMO.
I completely agree. I have a newspaper article from 1872 which has a drawing of a Persian, it looks nothing like the Persians of today. Ok, so the breed standard has been changed, but there are still many people who prefer the longer nosed Persians. Same with Siamese. The Traditional Siamese is quite popular because not everybody likes the slender Siamese that are the norm.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Persians & Siamese of today, but there is DEFINITELY nothing wrong with breeders who try & preserve the "original" look of these breeds, and many people like that.

Julia.
post #35 of 58
I think there should be room in the breeding world for both types of faces on cats. Personally, I think the doll faced Persians are very beautiful-my little boy is a smooshi faced guy, but I sure wouldn't find anything wrong with the more traditional looking face. I still would like to know why the breeders decided to radically change the shape of the cats face.

My Siamese, by the way are the more traditional looking Siamese. I think the Wedgey faces ones are cool also, but to me they look mean.
post #36 of 58
I would love to see 2 standards, one for the doll-faced and one for the smooshed face. Call one Persian, and the other Traditional Persian or something like that. Both are beautiful!

My Tillie looks like adoll faced Persian. As far as I know, she is just a domestic long hair...but she does have the doll faced look. My sweet little Tillinator!
post #37 of 58
Yes, that's my point. I think that there should be two "types" of Persian & Siamese.

Only problem is there are issues with the name Traditional Siamese, with a lady claiming the "copyright" on the name. It's a very long (& boring) story, but it hasn't exactly helped matters with a fair bit of bickering, which even made it's way over to Australia when I looked into breeding them.

Anyway, I think it's the CFA have two standards for the Burmese because the Burmese in America are different to the Burmese in Europe/Australia. So, I don't see why they can't do it with Siamese & Persians too.

Julia.
post #38 of 58
Persians are Persians are Persians are Persians.

Nearly all over the world now we are breding for a open cat with sweet expression, cobby body , small ears that fot well in with the head etc etc, why should we make two different breeds?

I live in NZ and I'm breeding for the CFA standard which is alot like our NZCF one.
post #39 of 58
I thought the person who originally started this post might be interested in seeing this link from our own catsite. It explains briefly, the traditional doll face and the modern flat faced persian. The picture of the traditional doll faced persian looks a lot like yours!

The Persian Cat
post #40 of 58
I think it would be a travisty to end the look of the Traditional looking Persian. They are so beautiful, and I think they have such sweet faces. Like I said, I have a Smooshi faced boy, but I think the Traditional faced Persian face is actually a lot prettier.

Here's my Stanley:

post #41 of 58
I like them both! The traditional "doll faced" does have a very sweet, soft face. But I have a soft spot for the squishy faced (standard)kitties for some reason! And I love your kitty! Looks like the one I wanted to get (Nora). I didn't get her because she doesn't like a litter box and is VERY anti social. We couldn't even catch her so I could see her up close!
post #42 of 58
Quote:
Nearly all over the world now we are breding for a open cat with sweet expression, cobby body , small ears that fot well in with the head etc etc, why should we make two different breeds?
Sam...some people prefer the more traditional look. I'm not a Persian person, but I am a Siamese lover, and I much, much prefer the look of the Traditional Siamese to the modern one, and so do many other people. There are quite a few Traditional Siamese breeders in the world, and there is a lot of interest in these cats. Speaking as a member of the general public & not somebody associated with the cat fancy, I feel that the way the Siamese went (ie: more slender appearance) was out of my control, it's something the breeders/cat clubs decided on. Not everybody wants the modern breeds.

Julia.
post #43 of 58
Misha, I agree with you. My Siamese are traditional. When I first started seeing the "new" Siamese, I was shocked. They look more like Sphynx cats with hair and markings, then like the Siamese I have always known and loved. Personally, I don't even know anyone who has the New style Siamese cats, but I know a lot of people with Siamese like mine.

As far as Persians go, I think there should be room for both types. Personally, I think the doll faced are prettier, but that's just my own personal preference. I ended up getting a little flat faced boy, and I love him, just the way he is.
post #44 of 58
bbsmom! Your cat is really sweet! Don't bother what people say - just love him!

And some more -just to say the fact that in Russia "baby doll face" means extremal Persian, and long noses are called "traditional" or "old style"
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by Misha
Sam...some people prefer the more traditional look. I'm not a Persian person, but I am a Siamese lover, and I much, much prefer the look of the Traditional Siamese to the modern one, and so do many other people. There are quite a few Traditional Siamese breeders in the world, and there is a lot of interest in these cats. Speaking as a member of the general public & not somebody associated with the cat fancy, I feel that the way the Siamese went (ie: more slender appearance) was out of my control, it's something the breeders/cat clubs decided on. Not everybody wants the modern breeds.

Julia.
I prefer the traditional Siamese too!
post #46 of 58
I'm not a big fan of Siamese but I love a good show quialty one.. Here's my Holly - Persian- what the standard is looking for

post #47 of 58
Tammie's Persians are also good examples of the breed!

Ok if so many people feel strongly about having the Traditonal Persian and the Modern Persian they should perhaps make a remit to their cat fancys breed council, I'm not against it BUT what I feel breeding cats mean is to better the breed as well as love for the breed , the long nosed "doll faced" cats were left behing ages ago and many have now leapt into future cats like my holly above!

I don't mean to offend!
post #48 of 58
Sam, I think some of the Traditional Siamese breeders are working towards having their cats accepted with the mainstream cat clubs. But, it's a slow process.

I'm not having a go here, but I do wonder why breeders & cat clubs felt the need to "alter" the breed by producing shorter nosed cats in Persians, and slimmer cats in Siamese.

I myself don't mind the modern Siamese, I have one myself, there are some beautiful Siamese on the show circuit, but if given the choice, I would go for the Traditional Siamese any day.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should be given the choice. We can't pretend that the traditional breeds don't exist anymore & that the public don't want them. There are some people who do like the modern versions & some who like the original versions, and I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to adopt both varieties. That said, breeders of traditional Persians & Siamese should have to breed to a standard just like breeders of modern Persians & Siamese.

Julia.
post #49 of 58
Thread Starter 
Wellington Cats! HOlly is beautiful. That is the color I have always wanted but There are not many breeders close to me and I dont really have that amount of money to spend on a cat. The comment someone made about people shoulnt breed doll face (traditionals) for pets, I think that is ridiculous. Many people only want cats as pets and there is nothing wrong with that. I am one of those people. As long as the cat, kittens are cared for it shouldnt matter.
post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by bbsmom
Wellington Cats! HOlly is beautiful. That is the color I have always wanted but There are not many breeders close to me and I dont really have that amount of money to spend on a cat. The comment someone made about people shoulnt breed doll face (traditionals) for pets, I think that is ridiculous. Many people only want cats as pets and there is nothing wrong with that. I am one of those people. As long as the cat, kittens are cared for it shouldnt matter.
Amen! As long as the breeder is responsible. After all.... someday your "doll face" may be a rare jewell. And a beautiful one at that!
post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by Misha
Sam, I think some of the Traditional Siamese breeders are working towards having their cats accepted with the mainstream cat clubs. But, it's a slow process.

I'm not having a go here, but I do wonder why breeders & cat clubs felt the need to "alter" the breed by producing shorter nosed cats in Persians, and slimmer cats in Siamese.

I myself don't mind the modern Siamese, I have one myself, there are some beautiful Siamese on the show circuit, but if given the choice, I would go for the Traditional Siamese any day.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should be given the choice. We can't pretend that the traditional breeds don't exist anymore & that the public don't want them. There are some people who do like the modern versions & some who like the original versions, and I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to adopt both varieties. That said, breeders of traditional Persians & Siamese should have to breed to a standard just like breeders of modern Persians & Siamese.

Julia.
People that wanna breed the old-style cats, they are most welcome to, but more people like the modern type so that's why they are on the show bench.
post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally posted by bbsmom
Wellington Cats! HOlly is beautiful. That is the color I have always wanted but There are not many breeders close to me and I dont really have that amount of money to spend on a cat. The comment someone made about people shoulnt breed doll face (traditionals) for pets, I think that is ridiculous. Many people only want cats as pets and there is nothing wrong with that. I am one of those people. As long as the cat, kittens are cared for it shouldnt matter.
Thanks, Holly sure is beautiful, Bbsom it's a shame you don't live over here in NZ because you could have a cat like Holly for $250- We sell them cheap because we are not trying to make money it's just a hobby!
post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by allissa
Hmm.
I tried to get a doll face persian in my area and the breeder had a waiting list way too long so I couldn't get one in my area.
So, somebody is buying them.
And in my eyes, they are way prettier than the flat faced ones.
Easy now..... you don't want to drum up a bunch of old, bad feelings now do you? That isn't a very sensitive thing to say on a cat site with a bunch of persian owners on it. What is the purpose of saying such a thing? Oh and by the way..... doll faced persians are not much prettier in my opinion and there are millions of people who dissagree with you on that (since the standard, flat face persian is the most popular and sought after cat out there). Each of them are just as gorgeous though, and I love them both.
post #54 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by allissa
Well, I am a PERSIAN owner.
Mine is dollface, and that is the way I and my family like him. And not just me, because everybody who have seen my cat tells me how gorgeous and beatiful he is. And right now, I am looking for a buddy for him, and that will also be a doll face persian, even if they are not easy to find around here because most people breed for the modern look. As for who is prettier, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Good for you! I am a Persian owner myself and have rescued many. Everyone always mentions how gorgeous my cats are too. I have the peke face persians but one isn't as exteme as most peke face cats. You hit the nail on the head here and this might have been a much better statment than proclaiming the doll face is "much more pretty" as in your original post:
Quote:
As for who is prettier, beauty is in the eye of the beholder
Or an even better statment would be that you prefer the doll face. As I said before, I love them both and one of my persians is a bit more toward doll face then the peke face. Somewhere in between really.

I've seen too many peoples feelings hurt and too much controversy on these boards when strong statments are made!

By the way, I responded to another post where you mentioned persian's eyes are copper or blue. Just in case you didn't see my reply... they can also have hazel, green and one blue one copper eyes!

Good luck finding your dream cat!
post #55 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by allissa
Well, I am a PERSIAN owner.
Mine is dollface, and that is the way I and my family like him. And not just me, because everybody who have seen my cat tells me how gorgeous and beatiful he is. And right now, I am looking for a buddy for him, and that will also be a doll face persian, even if they are not easy to find around here because most people breed for the modern look. As for who is prettier, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Hi allisa , I also have 4 persian and all of my persian come from rescue . Have thought about maybe looking into a rescue to find a perfet match for your baby ? You also could look into http://www.petsfinder.com . When there you can look to your left and click breed , then cats and after that you just look for persian cats
post #56 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurrfectCatlove
Hi allisa , I also have 4 persian and all of my persian come from rescue . Have thought about maybe looking into a rescue to find a perfet match for your baby ? You also could look into http://www.petsfinder.com . When there you can look to your left and click breed , then cats and after that you just look for persian cats
That's a good idea Hedi! I see doll face persians on there all the time! Hopefully she can find one close to her area. Or I know of a lady that transports anywhere in the U.S. for a flat $150. She flies with them but they fly in the cabin with her and not in cargo. Jake and Hallie came from California with her. She's wonderful too.... I don't know if I have her email anymore but I bet I could find it if need be!
post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjazz2u
That's a good idea Hedi! I see doll face persians on there all the time! Hopefully she can find one close to her area. Or I know of a lady that transports anywhere in the U.S. for a flat $150. She flies with them but they fly in the cabin with her and not in cargo. Jake and Hallie came from California with her. She's wonderful too.... I don't know if I have her email anymore but I bet I could find it if need be!
Mzjazz , some rescue groups even have transport lined up with people who volunteers just for that matter
post #58 of 58
Your most welcome
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