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The First Amendment doesn't stretch that far

post #1 of 8
8/17/10 at 4:30pm
Thread Starter 
It seems like you can say anything you want on the internet. But only if the person/people who own the website say you can, and especially if they have limits in their terms of use.

Why Facebook Can Block Speech (from Congress.org, not a "biased" source)

I can't tell you the number of times that the site team and site owner here have been called a multitude of names, the most memorable being "nazis" considering Anne (the site owner) is Israeli, because we've had to enforce the Rules and delete or edit posts. Not just in IMO, either. The argument comes back to "I have a right to free speech on the internet!" Well, actually...no, you don't. In a privately owned forum (in the larger sense, such the Facebook, MySpace, and other social mediums are forums) you don't.

Just the same as a private company can also censor "free speech" in their building or by their employees. They can throw you out or fire you for something you say.

Should website owners, whether or not in the US, have the right (as it were) to censor speech in their corner of the internet?
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post #2 of 8
8/17/10 at 4:43pm
Not if it's an innocent reference to the 'rich corynthian leather' of the Chrysler Cordoba.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIL3fbGbU2o
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post #3 of 8
8/17/10 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
It seems like you can say anything you want on the internet. But only if the person/people who own the website say you can, and especially if they have limits in their terms of use.

Why Facebook Can Block Speech (from Congress.org, not a "biased" source)

I can't tell you the number of times that the site team and site owner here have been called a multitude of names, the most memorable being "nazis" considering Anne (the site owner) is Israeli, because we've had to enforce the Rules and delete or edit posts. Not just in IMO, either. The argument comes back to "I have a right to free speech on the internet!" Well, actually...no, you don't. In a privately owned forum (in the larger sense, such the Facebook, MySpace, and other social mediums are forums) you don't.

Just the same as a private company can also censor "free speech" in their building or by their employees. They can throw you out or fire you for something you say.

Should website owners, whether or not in the US, have the right (as it were) to censor speech in their corner of the internet?
I, for one appreciate this post. I have found that people will say things on the internet, in letters, on the phone, etc. that they would not say in someone's face. I think our words regardless of where they are said or written need to be with courtesy and respect to all who might read them. Thank you for this post.
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post #4 of 8
8/17/10 at 6:12pm
Let's see...
someone has the idea to create a website where anyone who registers has the ability to post content.

They register and pay for a domain, pay for server space to host the website, either pay staff or recruit volunteers to make sure that no one posts, spam, porn, hate speech, illegal stuff etc.

So some folks who pay nothing but who show up and register think they can post whatever they want?

Yup, I agree, the "first amendment" doesn't apply.

The 1st amendment says that you can speak your peace without fear of the government coming after you. It doesn't say that you can go into someone's home and act in a manner that they don't care for. Same thing applies to the internet IMO - you are a guest on someone's forum and you are a guest on Facebook. If the folks running the site make the rules clear there is no excuse for not following them.

And as long as we are on the subject, hat's off to Anne and TCS for providing this IMO forum. I'm sure it is no party to moderate and I truly appreciate its existence. We often don't agree (it would be dull if we did) but name calling is a sure sign that someone doesn't get it.
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post #5 of 8
8/18/10 at 5:10am
That's a good article, especially where it covered a point that I like to make note of from time to time;

Quote:
The Supreme Court has disagreed so far, ruling that Constitutional rights only come into play when the government is behind the effort to censor speech.
The 1st Amendment isn't "granting" rights to anyone. It is preventing the Government from taking them. The Constitution restricts the actions of Congress, not citizens. It is very, very hard for a private citizen to commit an unconstitutional act. Case in point; the 4th Amendment doesn't apply to a citizens arrest, only arrests made by sworn officers of government agencies.
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post #6 of 8
8/18/10 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
That's a good article, especially where it covered a point that I like to make note of from time to time;



The 1st Amendment isn't "granting" rights to anyone. It is preventing the Government from taking them. The Constitution restricts the actions of Congress, not citizens. It is very, very hard for a private citizen to commit an unconstitutional act. Case in point; the 4th Amendment doesn't apply to a citizens arrest, only arrests made by sworn officers of government agencies.
Good post, Mike. I don't why this is such a difficult concept for people to understand.
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post #7 of 8
8/18/10 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
The 1st Amendment isn't "granting" rights to anyone. It is preventing the Government from taking them. The Constitution restricts the actions of Congress, not citizens. It is very, very hard for a private citizen to commit an unconstitutional act. Case in point; the 4th Amendment doesn't apply to a citizens arrest, only arrests made by sworn officers of government agencies.
This is a point most people don't grasp. The right of free speech in the Constitution applies exclusively to criticizing the government, and really only applies to "prior restraint." In other words, the government can't prevent you from saying anything about the government. But the law doesn't prevent prosecution for what you might say, for example, revealing state secrets, libel, fighting words, etc.
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post #8 of 8
8/20/10 at 6:58am
Another point is (and especially for sites like TCS) the world doesn't start and end in the US, members are from all over the world where the First Amendment doesn't exist and where websites are open to lawsuits if they are not careful with the ToS to say the views are that of individual members and they show diligence in removing obviously innaccurate info etc
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