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Republicans to use "NYC mosque" as an election issue

post #1 of 364
8/15/10 at 10:19pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...T_N.htm?csp=hf

"The top Republican in charge of Senate campaigns said Sunday that President Obama's support of a Muslim group's right to build an Islamic center near the site of the 9/11 attacks in New York would become an issue in the fall elections."

This upsets me. Who the heck does the Republican party think they are to disallow religious freedom?? Whatever happened to "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

White House officials responded by saying ""What he said last night, and reaffirmed today, is that if a church, a synagogue or a Hindu temple can be built on a site, you simply cannot deny that right to those who want to build a mosque," Burton said."

And that is absolutely true. Denying them the right to build their place of worship based purely on the particular religion surely would be illegal? I am disgusted that the Republican party is encouraging discrimination based on religion. Apparently because Obama said they have a right to be there makes the entire Democratic party soft on terrorism. Whaaaat??

Mohammed Ali, T-Pain, Dave Chappelle, Shaquille O'Neal, Iman - are they all considered bad people because they are Muslim? Of course not! Should they be denied rights because they are Muslim? Of course not!

For a start, Muslims aren't the problem - EXTREMISTS are. What they're trying to build is a place that will have a community centre, a mosque and a memorial to the 9/11 victims, which I see as a sign of respect, and how do people react? By showing great ignorance and disrespect by saying they're not allowed to!

There have been many acts of terrorism in the name of Christianity in the past. Can you imagine if the towns that suffered losses decide to ban all churches purely because of some idiot extremists? Christians would be screaming that it's not fair, and it wouldn't be.

As far I'm concerned this is a VERY low blow by the Republican party to try and win an election through fear.
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post #2 of 364
8/16/10 at 12:46am
I disagree. They can build the mosque anywhere else, but there. I believe the rights of the victims' families of 9/11 supersede the "right" to build a mosque in the shadow of the WTC. For once, let's give the victims some peace. We don't know who is funding this, and from everything I hear, those building the mosque know damn good and well that they are doing it as a "victory" symbol.
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post #3 of 364
8/16/10 at 4:09am
I dont think having a mosque at Ground Zero would be a 'victory' symbol but I do feel that there should be NO religious buildings/symbols or anything like that there. I think it should be a neutral space religion wise and a place where people can go and privately pay their respects to all those who lost their lives during those attacks. No one religion should be singled out to be recognized there unless ALL religions can be recognized there.
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post #4 of 364
8/16/10 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
We don't know who is funding this, and from everything I hear, those building the mosque know damn good and well that they are doing it as a "victory" symbol.
What exactly do you mean by a victory symbol? What do you think they are hoping to achieve by building a mosque there?

I think just the fact that people are making this an issue shows that Muslims are stereotyped and discriminated against in this country. Why would people assume that because a group of people who were terrorists happened to be Muslim, we need to associate Islam with terrorism? It's not Islam that's responsible for 911, not even close. The majority of Muslims are peaceful,and they do not need to be associated with the group of terrorists who happen to share the same religious views as them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3CatsN1Dog View Post
I dont think having a mosque at Ground Zero would be a 'victory' symbol but I do feel that there should be NO religious buildings/symbols or anything like that there. I think it should be a neutral space religion wise and a place where people can go and privately pay their respects to all those who lost their lives during those attacks. No one religion should be singled out to be recognized there unless ALL religions can be recognized there.
It isn't exactly AT Ground Zero, it's not as if they are building it at the exact place where the WTC used to be.
It's near there, and a mosque has existed there for a while. It's only now that they've decided to make it a community and recreation center, that people are beginning to get upset. If it were going to be exactly at Ground Zero I would agree that it's inappropriate- I think they shouldn't build anything there, except maybe a memorial of some sort.
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post #5 of 364
8/16/10 at 6:05am
If, "Atrocities committed in the name of extremists" were the litmus test for withholding religious rights, there wouldn't have been a single Christian church built in the Middle East after the Crusades.

I'll admit, I was one of those that thought such a move was rather provocative at first; but then I had to come to the realization that I was just being extremely cynical, making assumptions and painting with a very wide brush, and all that. And is that what we're supposed to be doing as Americans? Is that what Christians are supposed to be doing?

Hearing Newt Gingrich open his mouth for 10 seconds should be enough to open anyone's eyes. Comparing the building of the mosque there to "Putting a Nazi sign next to a Holocaust museum". Wow, could you get it any more wrong, Newt? Blanketing socio-religious ideologies for propaganda purposes is something, well...it's something they did in Nazi Germany. So I guess Newt gets it after all...but for all the wrong reasons.
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post #6 of 364
8/16/10 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keycube View Post
Hearing Newt Gingrich open his mouth for 10 seconds should be enough to open anyone's eyes. Comparing the building of the mosque there to "Putting a Nazi sign next to a Holocaust museum". Wow, could you get it any more wrong, Newt? Blanketing socio-religious ideologies for propaganda purposes is something, well...it's something they did in Nazi Germany. So I guess Newt gets it after all...but for all the wrong reasons.
I agree, that was extremely offensive to Muslims. How dare he compare Muslims to Nazis. I just can't believe he said something like this in public, isn't he worried about his reputation..
I mean, he isn't in politics anymore so I guess it doesn't matter, but if he were I would think it would be political suicide because it's sooo wrong. I just can't believe how serious the stereotyping of Muslims as terrorists is in this country, I never thought it was this serious until I see this reaction from people on building this mosque.
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post #7 of 364
8/16/10 at 6:22am
Everything is an election issue right now. This situation especially is an issue because recent polls indicate that 68-70 percent of Americans oppose building of the mosque near ground zero. They have not been told they can't build a mosque anywhere else. In my opinion, this should not even be an issue. There is such a thing as respect for the familiies of all those who lost their lives there. It should not be a place where something is built that divides and separates the people of this country. A memorial that people can visit would be much more respectful. Let the Muslims have their freedom of religion and worship somewhere else.
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post #8 of 364
8/16/10 at 7:07am
It just makes it painfully obvious that there are a lot of people in the US that either don't care, or don't understand, the Constitution of the United States, and aren't even up on the facts of 9-11.
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post #9 of 364
8/16/10 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
There is such a thing as respect for the familiies of all those who lost their lives there. It should not be a place where something is built that divides and separates the people of this country. A memorial that people can visit would be much more respectful. Let the Muslims have their freedom of religion and worship somewhere else.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but it seems it would be different if, say, there was a "Hallowed ground" radius established before the mosque issue was raised. I mean, it's to be 3-4 blocks away, right? From what I understand, there are peep show buildings within that radius.

It all just seems so arbitrary; so, 3 blocks is too close? How about a mile? 10 miles? Connecticut? For many Americans, building a mosque anywhere is never going to be okay. At some point someone has to step up and be a difference-maker.

Not to mention the fact that - ironically - I would suspect all of this disparaging talk of Islam is not endearing ourselves to those very same extremists that created this issue. Though I'm hardly an apologist, the fact is that this is how socio-religious wars start. The road to Hell may very well be paved with the good intentions of Ground Zero sanctity, if we don't become more affirmative in our tolerance of Islam.
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post #10 of 364
8/16/10 at 7:35am
I think it is in fact Greeks who are obviously not a sacred minority in this country. City officials have no fear because they don't have the opportunity to prove how un-bigoted they are by moving forward a traditional Greek Orthodox dome structure with a nondenominational center for visitors to Ground Zero.


Are there ME financial interests involved in rebuilding Ground Zero ?

That's the only reason I can imagine that there is a mad rush for this 13 story mega mosque by a pro-Sharia, anti-free speech imam while New York Port Authority throws up roadblock after roadblock to the rebuilding of St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church at the same site.
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post #11 of 364
8/16/10 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by elayman View Post
I think it is in fact Greeks who are obviously not a sacred minority in this country. City officials have no fear because they don't have the opportunity to prove how un-bigoted they are by moving forward a traditional Greek Orthodox dome structure with a nondenominational center for visitors to Ground Zero.


Are there ME financial interests involved in rebuilding Ground Zero ?

That's the only reason I can imagine that there is a mad rush for this 13 story mega mosque by a pro-Sharia, anti-free speech imam while New York Port Authority throws up roadblock after roadblock to the rebuilding of St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church at the same site.
That's because they're NOT at the same site. The Mosque location is 2 NYC blocks away. That's quite a little distance actually, NYC has some big blocks. The Greek Orthodox want to build the church ON ground zero, which makes it a completely different situation all together.

There are several churches located around ground zero, several right across adjacent streets...including a Greek Orthodox church already. Should we tear all those down??

Google Maps...Ground Zero w/bldg detail
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post #12 of 364
8/16/10 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
It just makes it painfully obvious that there are a lot of people in the US that either don't care, or don't understand, the Constitution of the United States, and aren't even up on the facts of 9-11.
Not to mention their NYC geography. It's appalling how people thousands of miles away claim to know what's best for NYC and keep confusing the old Burlington Coat Factory building with Ground Zero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
I agree, that was extremely offensive to Muslims. How dare he compare Muslims to Nazis. I just can't believe he said something like this in public, isn't he worried about his reputation..
What reputation? As a womanizing hypocrite? This is just the guy to be spouting off on family values and religion that the Republican party needs!
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post #13 of 364
8/16/10 at 8:44am
The cultural center (including a mosque comparable to a chapel in a hospital) really wouldn't be right at Ground Zero, as you can see from Google maps (marked "A"):


There are two Christian churches, St. Peter's RC Church and St. Paul's Chapel, which are much closer, according to the map.

Those claiming that a mosque is going to be built at Ground Zero are misleading others for their own purposes. What are they going to do next, establish a state religion?
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post #14 of 364
8/16/10 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
It just makes it painfully obvious that there are a lot of people in the US that either don't care, or don't understand, the Constitution of the United States, and aren't even up on the facts of 9-11.
It's like the Bible. People like to pick and chose what parts they believe in.
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post #15 of 364
8/16/10 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
Everything is an election issue right now. This situation especially is an issue because recent polls indicate that 68-70 percent of Americans oppose building of the mosque near ground zero. They have not been told they can't build a mosque anywhere else. In my opinion, this should not even be an issue. There is such a thing as respect for the familiies of all those who lost their lives there. It should not be a place where something is built that divides and separates the people of this country. A memorial that people can visit would be much more respectful. Let the Muslims have their freedom of religion and worship somewhere else.

Sorry. Not in Staten Island, not in Tennesee, not in Wisconsin, not even in Socialist California.

Do you think Obama has taken his position becasue he 'wants to take America down' as you've said.

Is it because Obama is a secret Kenyan born Muslim Socialist?

Not in Staten Island, not in Tennesee, not in Wisconsin, not even in Socialist California.... About 3 Min 12 seconds in.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...hearing-update
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post #16 of 364
8/16/10 at 10:54am
Never mind the fact that there's already a mosque on that site. Look at these horrible, blood thirsty, anti-american muslims revelling in pools of blood and celebrating their victory over the great satan (tm):




I think this is a great article:

A Very Long Post on Cordoba House

Quote:
This means you can be two blocks away from something without any sense that you’re near it. City Hall is four blocks from Ground Zero, but you’d never stand there and think “I’m right near Ground Zero.†There is even a strip club three blocks south of Ground Zero, but nobody seems to have noticed that it is sullying the memory of the place.

In most cities, including Washington, 13 stories constitute a very tall building. But in the environment of Lower Manhattan, Cordoba House will be just another structure—which is not exactly consistent with the view that it is a Towering Monument to Jihad. In short, people are overestimating the extent to which this building will interact with, or be noticeable from, the World Trade Center site.

And this brings us to why I disagree not only with those who would use the power of government to stop the mosque, but also with the NR editors and others who urge private anti-mosque action. In general, my presumption is that it’s OK for people to build what they want on their property, with the burden on opponents to show why that’s such a bad thing. The proper question is not “Why here?†but “Why not here?â€

So much of the complaint about the mosque has centered around the idea that, because hijackers acting in the name of Islam attacked the towers, Muslims should maintain a respectful distance. But the developers of Cordoba House (why do I even need to say this?) are not terrorists and did not attack the towers. Placing a burden on all Muslims to keep their institutions out of the Financial District is unfair.

Furthermore, since Islam has 1.2 billion adherents and is not going away, it is important to set reasonable guidelines that promote harmony with Western society—such as, it’s okay to build a mosque in the Financial District, and it’s not okay to blow up buildings in the Financial District. A general policy of exclusion is unworkable.
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post #17 of 364
8/16/10 at 11:49am
Thread Starter 
That's a good article

This guy's blog post is good too http://daryllang.com/blog/4421
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post #18 of 364
8/16/10 at 11:57am
Why are they on the floor at Cordoba House. Don't they have seats made of rich corynthian leather?
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post #19 of 364
8/16/10 at 2:55pm
I still want the towers rebuilt, but bigger and stronger, as a symbolic "bird" to the terrorists.
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post #20 of 364
8/16/10 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_PH View Post
Sorry. Not in Staten Island, not in Tennesee, not in Wisconsin, not even in Socialist California.

Do you think Obama has taken his position becasue he 'wants to take America down' as you've said.

Is it because Obama is a secret Kenyan born Muslim Socialist?

Not in Staten Island, not in Tennesee, not in Wisconsin, not even in Socialist California.... About 3 Min 12 seconds in.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...hearing-update
I have no idea what you are saying here when you highlighted my post and put it here with what you wrote. I never mentioned anything at all about Mr Obama, his birth or his reasons for taking the position he has in building the mosque. I just said let them build it somewhere else. Regardless of the fact I didn't vote for him, won't vote for him and really don't agree with most of what he does, he is the president of this country and I pray for him and for all the leaders of this country.


This is what I wrote in my previous post.

Everything is an election issue right now. This situation especially is an issue because recent polls indicate that 68-70 percent of Americans oppose building of the mosque near ground zero. They have not been told they can't build a mosque anywhere else. In my opinion, this should not even be an issue. There is such a thing as respect for the familiies of all those who lost their lives there. It should not be a place where something is built that divides and separates the people of this country. A memorial that people can visit would be much more respectful. Let the Muslims have their freedom of religion and worship somewhere else.
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post #21 of 364
8/16/10 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
Everything is an election issue right now. This situation especially is an issue because recent polls indicate that 68-70 percent of Americans oppose building of the mosque near ground zero.
And it's not just Republicans.

Don't think so? Well, there's always this:

Reid Breaks With Obama Over Proposed Ground Zero Mosque

Reid is in a very tight race against a tea-party candidate in Nevada, which is a million miles from NYC (or may as well be), but his constituents do have an opinion about this.

Oh yes, and Hamas made a statement that it "must be built" at Ground Zero (like they have any concept of what NYC's city blocks are!). No one is deeming them important enough to respond - not Democrats, not Republicans, not the Cordoba House.

A contractor from NYC who did work at Ground Zero in the days following 9/11 was on my local radio station this morning, and I 100% agree with what he said. He said that they certainly have a right to worship there, but do they really have to build such a large facility right there?

It isn't a matter of whether they have the Constitutional right to do it. They certainly do. It's a matter of respect for what happened so close to their build site. I understand what the Cordoba House is trying to do, and I applaud them for their mission. But it has been less than 10 years since so many people died there at the hands of extremists professing the same faith. It takes more than just 9 short years for those wounds to heal.
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post #22 of 364
8/16/10 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
I have no idea what you are saying here.
You don't get a connection to when you said "Obama wants to take America down'?
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post #23 of 364
8/16/10 at 6:41pm
One more time: the cultural center is not "at" Ground Zero. The building is the old Burlington Coat factory two blocks away.

Here it is, the "hallowed ground," the site honoring those of us seeking cheap outerwear in the northeastern US:
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...d-zero-mosque-

And heaven help us if we have to rely on what politicians like Harry Reid have to say. Has he ever even been to NYC?
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post #24 of 364
8/16/10 at 7:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_PH View Post
You don't get a connection to when you said "Obama wants to take America down'?
Nope, I don't know what you are talking about.


For the third time, this is what I wrote in my previous post and nothing has been said about Mr. Obama, his birth or taking America down.

Everything is an election issue right now. This situation especially is an issue because recent polls indicate that 68-70 percent of Americans oppose building of the mosque near ground zero. They have not been told they can't build a mosque anywhere else. In my opinion, this should not even be an issue. There is such a thing as respect for the familiies of all those who lost their lives there. It should not be a place where something is built that divides and separates the people of this country. A memorial that people can visit would be much more respectful. Let the Muslims have their freedom of religion and worship somewhere else.
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post #25 of 364
8/16/10 at 7:30pm
So, the Muslim Americans that lost their lives that day, both in the towers and as airline passengers, are just being written off? Conservative politicians, pundits and commentators will quite eagerly use their lives as statistics in the inaccurate numbers they spout in their "righteous indignation", but other than that, they deserve no representation?
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post #26 of 364
8/16/10 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
It should not be a place where something is built that divides and separates the people of this country. A memorial that people can visit would be much more respectful. Let the Muslims have their freedom of religion and worship somewhere else.
It's only dividing and separating people who want to milk it for their own political gain or to sell books, like all these conservative pundits and commentators from FOX who earn their living through their incessant proclamations that the sky is falling.

And where pray tell do these people from western desert and mountain states think some "somewhere else" is appropriate for Muslim residents of the Lower East Side to pray? West of Lexington? Park? Maybe across the Hudson River? Or north of Central Park? Do they even know enough about Manhattan and NYC to make this kind of judgment?
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post #27 of 364
8/16/10 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
It's only dividing and separating people who want to milk it for their own political gain or to sell books, like all these conservative pundits and commentators from FOX who earn their living through their incessant proclamations that the sky is falling.

And where pray tell do these people from western desert and mountain states think some "somewhere else" is appropriate for Muslim residents of the Lower East Side to pray? West of Lexington? Park? Maybe across the Hudson River? Or north of Central Park? Do they even know enough about Manhattan and NYC to make this kind of judgment?
According to the latest polls 68-70 percent of Americans oppose this and I doubt they are all from "western desert or mountain states". I doubt that this percentage of Americans are milking for political gain or trying to sell books. They are just Americans who feel that it would be a slap in the face. I have read on several websites and also heard on new channels that there are about 100 mosques already in New York City. If that is true then that speaks for itself.
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post #28 of 364
8/16/10 at 9:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
According to the latest polls 68-70 percent of Americans oppose this and I doubt they are all from "western desert or mountain states". I doubt that this percentage of Americans are milking for political gain or trying to sell books. They are just Americans who feel that it would be a slap in the face. I have read on several websites and also heard on new channels that there are about 100 mosques already in New York City. If that is true then that speaks for itself.
No, they're the one's being fleeced into buying the books.

And over 6000 churches...yet the Greek Orthodox wants to build yet another one, ON ground zero. What's up with that? Isn't over 6000 plenty?
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post #29 of 364
8/17/10 at 4:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
According to the latest polls 68-70 percent of Americans oppose this and I doubt they are all from "western desert or mountain states".
No you don't have to be from a western desert or mountain state to feel you cn stick your nose into NYC decisions on use of real estate, but it certainly seems to help. Being from Alaska seems to really help. Can Palin even find NYC on a map of the US?
Quote:
As The New Yorker's Hendrik Hertzberg has written, opposition to the Islamic center seems "roughly proportional to distance." While 68% of Americans disapprove of the plan, a recent Marist poll found that 53% of New York City residents disapprove, including only 31% of Manhattan residents.
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo...ero-mosque.php

I think it's time for these people to butt out of NYC affairs myself. And so by the way do some prominent New Yorkers.

Quote:
Ah, the “Ground Zero mosque.” Well, for a start, it won’t be at Ground Zero. It’ll be on Park Place, two blocks north of the World Trade Center site (from which it will not be visible), in a neighborhood ajumble with restaurants, shops (electronics, porn, you name it), churches, office cubes, and the rest of the New York mishmash.
...
Like many New Yorkers, the people in charge of Park51, a married couple, are from somewhere else—he from Kuwait, she from Kashmir. Feisal Abdul Rauf is a Columbia grad. He has been the imam of a mosque in Tribeca for close to thirty years. He is the author of a book called “What’s Right with Islam Is What’s Right with America.” He is a vice-chair of the Interfaith Center of New York. “My colleagues and I are the anti-terrorists,” he wrote recently—in the Daily News, no less. He denounces terrorism in general and the 9/11 attacks in particular, often and at length. The F.B.I. tapped him to conduct “sensitivity training” for agents and cops. His wife, Daisy Khan, runs the American Society for Muslim Advancement, which she co-founded with him. It promotes “cultural and religious harmony through interfaith collaboration, youth and women’s empowerment, and arts and cultural exchange.”

Pretty scary. Leading the pack of scaredy-cats, along with Palin, was her fellow Presidential mentionee Newt Gingrich, a leading intellectual light of the Republican Party. According to Gingrich, Park51 is “an assertion of Islamist triumphalism,” part of “an Islamist cultural-political offensive designed to undermine and destroy our civilization.”
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/commen...talk_hertzberg
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post #30 of 364
8/17/10 at 5:14am
I personally think it is absolutely disgusting that some Americans feel that it is ok to discriminate against anyone for any reason, but this issue takes the cake. This country was founded on the principle of freedom of religion. Why did the Puritans come over here on the Mayflower? To escape religious persecution! Like others have said, there was already a mosque in this area and Muslims also died in 9/11, and they all weren't terrorists!

People need to open their eyes, their minds and their hearts and realize that just because someone is not exactly like them, it does not make them bad or wrong or evil.
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