Looking at Condo follow up.

So I looked at the condo on Friday night & looked at a few others yesterday. I would say there are two that I would think about. The first is the one I looked at on Friday night. The issue is the cats. So I have asked to see the association rules, but the realtor told me that I would have to make an offer. Then I could see the rules & I would have 5 days to resind my offer. Now he claims he asked about cats. He said, "one person said 2 and another person said 3. I think as long as they don't bother anyone you should be OK." I realized that with 5 cats it would be difficult to find a condo, but he was so positive it wouldn't be a problem. I was super upset last night because I had gotten my hopes up.

I guess my question for all of you is, would you buy it and move their anyway in the hopes no one cared about your cats?

I don't think I would take the chance hun, just in case.

It would be taking a chance; does this association have a management company? I know ours would tell people our pet rules (two pets such as cats or dogs per unit). Five will probably be an issue, especially if your county or town has a number limit in place as well.

The realtor should dig up an authoritative answer for you - I'm not crazy about his reply. Tell him you only want to look at units that would allow five cats - if that is your deal breaker.

You could be fined, etc., for being over the limit. My other suggestion still stands - wherever you buy, get involved with board meetings so you can definitely get a feel for how the association works. My own board has four pet owners (out of a membership of five). That said, we all do observe our pet limits, and would look askance at a new owner who came in with a number over the limit (not counting newborn puppies or kittens who will be going to new homes).

And, just wondering - which the housing market these days, are you sure you couldn't look at a single family homes? What does your loan officer say? If I were buying now, I'd probably look at a house - although there are a lot of things about my condo that I really like and I wouldn't care for shoveling and mowing if I moved.

I am suspicious about them not letting you see the Association's Rules and Regulations beforehand. those R&R's can be long and drawn out. I would look for something else or contact someone on their board directly.

Originally Posted by Catkiki

I am suspicious about them not letting you see the Association's Rules and Regulations beforehand. those R&R's can be long and drawn out. I would look for something else or contact someone on their board directly.

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I am suspicious about not being able to see them before making an offer. I e-mailed someone this morning looking for a differnt realtor.

I was so upset yesterday by the fact that the cat limit is 2 or 3. I just feel totally stuck. I can't afford to own a home because 1 they are not that cheap, 2 there is no way I could afford to replace a furnace if it went bad, 3 I really don't think I could keep up the yard work.

Property managers probably limit the number of cats because they have to do so with dogs. And if the number of dogs exploded it would be a serious nightmare of poop problems, destruction and noise.


I've also never lived in a condo (but am one kitty up in the apt. with no issues thus far - knock wood ). Just use a heavy dose of common sense. Be discrete and make sure you can accept the fines.

Originally Posted by elayman

Property managers probably limit the number of cats because they have to do so with dogs. And if the number of dogs exploded it would be a serious nightmare of poop problems, destruction and noise.


I've also never lived in a condo (but am one kitty up in the apt. with no issues thus far - knock wood

). Just use a heavy dose of common sense. Be discrete and make sure you can accept the fines.

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If it were only a matter of fines, I would have no problem with that. What I worry about is that the condo association can "force compliance" per Wisconsin state law. I have no problem in my appartment, but I am just afraid a condo would be a differnt thing.

I just wish I could some how talk to the association, but I am struggling to find information on them and the realtor is being NO help.

No I wouldn't in case they found out and you either had to move again or re-adopt some of your kits. I would be honest in this situation.

I've lived in two different condos.

The first one they just said cats and dogs allowed. I lived there 15 years and never once saw anything about the number of cats or dogs that were allowed.

I've been in my present condo five years. When I bought it they too said cats and dogs allowed and there was no numbers stated.

Last June a resident started complaining about dogs. This was because of one negligent owner in the other building (we have 2 buildings). Eventually the board put it to a vote to no longer allow new dogs.

I voted no on the issue of banning dogs. My thoughts were if they ban dogs cats will be next. Unfortunately the rule passed. If you own a dog you can keep it but are not allowed to bring any new dogs in.

In advertisements for units for sale I've seen it state cats allowed (giving no number) and no dogs allowed.

A month ago the management company sent out copies of the official rules. The new rules state no dogs and only 2 cats per unit.

This made me laugh because I know for a fact that one person on my floor has 4 cats and another has 3. Both owners have had these cats all along. And at no time previously has it been stated that only 2 are allowed.

The rules also stated that residents are only allowed to park 2 vehicles on the property. This too made me laugh because one of the people on my floor owns three parking spaces in the garage. There is no way they can tell this person that they can't park in a deeded space.

My advice is to find a Realtor that is willing to work with you on getting the rules up front. And if you see a condo that you are really interested in go and ask some of the residents about their experiences.

There was an apartment for sale on my floor. Before the guy bought it he came by at different times of the day just to see what was going on. He talked to people before he decided to buy.

In my case I only have one cat so I am OK. I talked to my neighbor who has four and she is not giving them up. She is ignoring the rules.

I would feel uncomfortable moving into a condo without actually knowing what the written rules are about pets. I live in a townhome development that has an association and I am pretty sure we were able to see the bylaws before we made an offer on our place. Any time you are looking somewhere you will have to deal with an association talk to people in the building to see how the association functions. You do not want to end up paying dues for an association that either does nothing or has to know every little thing related to your property.

Our association was hassling us about having a satellite dish and hubby brought something in writing about how they can not ban satellite dishes and they have backed off completely.

I wouldn't buy into anything unless I could see the assoc. rules FIRST. If they're stubborn about not letting you see them, that to me raises a huge red flag.

One suggestion I have is attending a first time homeowners class - they're offered in a lot of places. They can be very helping in determining the true costs of owning, whether a home or a condo. In this market, truly, a single family home may not be out of reach. A lot of people buy a condo, more or less thinking they won't have to worry about replacing major appliances, etc and that owning a condo is a lot less expensive than owning a home. However, that may not be true.

Association assessments should be high enough that major repairs and replacements are reserved for (like, roofs, boilers, exterior painting, street resurfacing where the streets are private, etc.). Minor ongoing repairs should be paid through the annual budget. That's why it's totally important to get a look at the annual budget (which really should be audited, IMO), and how many, if any, owners are behind in their assessments and that reserveds are sufficient. Be very careful to compare apples to apples between associations and their assessments, and be very aware of what's covered as a common element or what's yours.

Also, I beg you - please have your own real estate attorney to help you with the contracts - do not depend on the realtor, no matter how great she is.

That said, depending on the condo association - you may have major repairs of your own. I own my furnace, my air conditioner, etc. I have my own washer/dryer as well as all the other major appliances. I'm responsible for interior maintainance and repair - if a plumbing issues affects only my unit, it's my dime to repair - if it's a pipe that serves more than one unit, then it's the association. Windows are mine to take care of. Other condos may be set up differently. But, I can almost guarantee you you'll have unexpected expenses - which can be offset by building equity in your own home, but you'll still be out of pocket at first when, oh, you have to put in a new kitchen faucet, or the fridge acts up. First time owners are almost always confused as to what their responsibility is, and what belongs to the association (and remember, you are the association as well).

Re fines - depending on the rules and regs, fines can be increased if an owner simply disregards them or looks at them as a cost of living there. For example, let's say the first month they fine you $25. But the cats are still there. The second month it might up to $50, then $75, etc. The idea is not really to punish anyone - but people who move into any sort of community living really should read the rules, and know if they can live with them.

In most cases, let's say a limit is put on number of pets because a situation came up that someone had too many pets (and it happens - four or five dogs in a one bedroom, let's say) - usually people who already had more than the new limit would be grandfathered in until the existing pet passed away, but you couldn't exceed the limit with new additions.

Take your time - I know it's disappointing when you think it's almost in your grasp, but if there's an upside to this market, is that there are a lot of homes out there - and in the meantime, you can keep putting money aside for the right one - which will come along, honestly.

I have to say I am feeling a lot better today about my decision not to buy that unit. As nice as it would have been, I realize I would rather live in my tiny appartment with my kitties than in a huge house without them.

In addition, I am working to find a new realtor who will understand when I say that not allowing me to keep my cats is a deal breaker. I sent an e-mail to my morgatge broker yesterday & she said that the condo by-laws are a matter of public record and I should be able to see them BEFORE making an offer. I am not sure if this guy was trying to hide something, or just being lazy. Either way, I have no intention of giving him any money.

Does your state differentiate between buyer's agent and seller's agent? If so, you might want to look for a buyer's agent. People sometimes forget that the Realtor is often representing the seller. You want someone working for you - that's one reason I suggested it's always a good idea to have your own RE attorney look over all the papers (my realtor actually insisted I have an attorney before I started looking - because at that time, purchaeses sometimes moved very quickly).

Good luck - and the right place will come along - it's actually kind of nice you don't have to rush into anything.

If some place will not let me see the rules before I make an offer, FORGET THAT! No way I am agreeing to something like that!

I agree to take a class and also to look into a small single family home as well as condos. You may have one that has very little yard! In my area, condos are often more expensive than the houses. And plus with a house you dont have to follow managements rules, you dont have a neighbors house against yours, and its a bit more private. The yard work can be kind of crappy but its no big deal. And I like the fact that I can plant and do the landscaping how ever I please! It takes us about an hour every other week to mow everything. But if you are in a neighborhood you may have some kids that need some money and will be more than willing to mow for $20 every other week or something like that!
Also we have a home owners warranty that if anything broke within the first year of us owning the home we paid nothing. It was nice and has come in handy!

Good luck! Searching for our house was about one of the most stressful things ever! We had looked at our current house and it was way over budget but we ended up getting them down to where we wanted after 3 other offers fell through. And we love it!

my little house in Sanger had a nice-sized yard, but i could mow the front in less than 30 minutes, & the whole thing [front & back, plus part behind fence] in about 1.5 hours with a push mower... & i'm an old lady of 52 don't let the yard work scare you off!
i wasn't having to mow the part behind the fence this last year, because my neighbor offered to do it for me [i had to go around the block to get to it]. he had a riding mower & the area was easily accessible to him. you never know when something like that will happen - i had a previous neighbor [same house, but different renter] when i moved in, & he offered to mow the front yard for me - did it until he moved out.

I did get a preapproval for a single family home. I am really leaning that way. I can't imagine having to give up one of my cats. The thing that amazed me was how much they approved me for, the monthly payment would be way more than I am comfortable with. Is that normal?

Even in this market, the preapproval letter can be for more than you were thinking about (pre-approval, not pre-qualification, right?) If possible, I'd go less than the amount you've been approved.

I mentioned earlier first time homeowners' classes - one thing that's nice about them is they usually can have very straight forward advice about working on a homeowner's budget - you really do need to budget not only for immediate expenses, but start a reserve for replacing big ticket items (appliances, roof, painting, etc.) In a condo, that's your monthly assessment - assuming your association is doing a good job - well, not appliances, but the roof, landscaping, etc.).

So, basically, figure out how much you can swing comfortably on a monthly basis (that's mortgage, taxes and insurance - a good realtor and/or loan officer can help you with those estimates), and then add in a little house savings account - then when it's time to recarpet, or change out lighting fixtures, or plant some new bushes, you'll have some money already in place. In almost every case, don't end up spending so much of your income on housing that you can't manage a movie once in a while, for example.

PS - A friend of mine did get her own single family home, because she has a son and wanted a dog - she did just hire one of the neighborhood high school boys to cut the grass and shovel snow, and just puts that money aside every week. She did get her own snow blower, though!

Best of luck to you - and it is the upside of this real estate market that a lot of homes that were out of reach even eight years ago, might be a good deal now.

Oh, please make sure to have the home inspected as a contingency to your offer - and have your own attorney on hand. And good luck!

Originally Posted by Rang_27

I did get a preapproval for a single family home. I am really leaning that way. I can't imagine having to give up one of my cats. The thing that amazed me was how much they approved me for, the monthly payment would be way more than I am comfortable with. Is that normal?

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i'd consider it normal. i was approved for a loan for far more than i knew i could handle!