Update on DD & Her Dramas (sorry, kind of long)

Some of you may remember that DH & I have been having a world of trouble with our DD. She turned 21 a few days ago, but has been acting like a 12 year old. After her alcoholic fiance broke up with her in May, she began (the very next day) dating a boy who later got fired from their mutual place of employment for (in his boss's words) 'being a pot head.' She then started dating a guy who is from one of the worst families in our town. I know that may sound judgmental, but the parents both have long arrest records for really small matters---which is a sure sign that the police are keeping an eye on them. They've been sued repeatedly for not paying their bills, one of their daughters has an order of protection against her, and one of their sons (not the new bf, but they all live together) was arrested recently on gun-running charges! When the police raided the family home they seized ammunition, cannabis, and drug paraphenalia. And this is the family DD now wants to be part of.
DH and I told her after she'd only been out with the new bf a couple of times that we simply couldn't handle the drama of her being involved with a guy from this particular family. We told her she had to choose between a guy she'd gone out with twice or her family. She let us know that she couldn't choose---which pretty much told us what her choice was. My family knows about the situation, and most of them have written her off for the time being. DH's family isn't aware of the situation yet, but we know what their reaction will be. DD has basically thrown away her entire family.
To make things even worse, while her Dad and I were sleeping Saturday night she packed most of her clothes, her laptop, her tv, etc. into her car. She went to work early Sunday morning and never came back---not so much as a "oh by the way, I'm moving out." Once we discovered her things were gone, and that she'd snuck out in the middle of the night like a coward, we changed the locks on our doors. I know she tried to come back in the house last night sometime after midnight because she left our gate open. After a really long, really sleepless night (during which DH drove by some of her friends' houses at 3 a.m.), we both did another drive thru town looking for her car. Would you believe she ended up across the alley, at the home of a 16 year old girl? I'm livid that she involved the girl's 70-something year old Dad in the middle of her drama.
I know she has to come back at some point because her savings book is here, as are her bc pills. (oh, great!) DH & I have decided the house will be locked at all times, even when we're home; there is no way she's going to waltz in and start removing things again. At this point, we don't trust her as far as we can throw her. Throw her extremely questionable bf into the mix, and it's actually scary.
Just after she started dating this new guy, there were 2 mornings when I could tell someone had been in our yard during the night because they left our gates open. There was another night when we got a phone call at 10 p.m., asking for DH by name. When he said 'hello' the guy on the other end said 'wrong number' and hung up on him. We don't feel safe in our own home, and it's all because our DD has gotten involved with the wrong people----again.
So many people have told me to kick her out and make her find out just how easy she's had it. In a way, I'm relieved that she's gone. In another way, I'm scared to death about what stupid mistakes she's going to make next.
I know there's really nothing anyone can do or say that's going to make this any better. I think I just needed to get this off my chest,and maybe have someone tell me that DH and I are doing the right thing by not letting her back in unless one of us is here to keep an eye on her. Someone please tell me we're not being terrible parents.

You did what had to be done. A friend of my ex-wife is going through something similar, and it shocks me how poorly they're handling it, being such enablers with their daughter.

Parents have this paranoid assumption that "goodbye" (or "get out") is forever when they're the ones saying it to their child, but if they don't say it, they often have a child that takes life for granted and is ill-equipped for adulthood.

Ironically, you will likely have strengthened your bond with your daughter by taking such action. She needs introspection. Be patient.

I'm so sorry that you and your DH are having to put up with all of this crap. Your DD is an adult. She has made her bed and now she has to lie in it. Maybe eventually she will grow up, and maybe then you can salvage a relationship, but in the meantime you ABSOLUTELY did the right thing, you are NOT terrible parents. A terrible parent would be one who allows this kind of behavior to happen and therefore encourages it. I hope that it all works out for the best.

Finally!!

You did the right thing changing the locks on the doors. However, you and your husband should have made that decision for her long ago and gave her the boot. We teach people how to treat us and you were teaching her that she could disrespect you both all she wanted and that she was always going to be welcome into your home, no matter what. And she took advantage of that, big time which caused you and your DH huge amounts of stress.

Thank goodness she is gone!

Now don't make the mistake of taking her back into your home even if she agrees to rules. You and I both know that she won't keep her end of the bargain and that it would be just empty promises on her part to get back into your home where she had it made in the shade from the sounds of your other posts.

She will cry and whine and manipulate and guilt you. Don't cave in.

You're not bad parents! You're caring parents who have done exactly what you needed to do. I hope that, someday (and it may be quite soon), she'll understand. (And I hope she has the sense to get new BC pills.)

You really did need to change the locks and I'm glad you've done that.

But you may have to keep a close eye on your home and such for awhile. The fact that you're getting some screwy phone calls and that your gates have been opened (maybe you should put locks on your gates, too?) means that somebody has started to come around. That's not good. Do you have a police person with whom you could talk about people coming in your yard? At least to try to get some ideas on how to handle that?

Oh, and you might want to call your phone company to see if they can put a trace on your telephone. Since you're getting some weird calls, they shouldn't charge you for the trace. The problem is, that if they do find out who's doing the calling, sometimes you're required to press charges NO MATTER WHO IT IS. Even if it's your daughter making the calls. I'd definitely check into that, too.

Thank you all so much! I know we did the right thing, but this hurts so very much. It amazes me how much DD has changed in the last year. I used to tell anyone that would listen that we couldn't have asked for a better daughter---she was so considerate and helpful, would give me hugs for no reason, if I was gone for the day she'd clean house---things that you really don't expect a 19 or 20 year old to do. Now, it's as if she's grabbed my heart and stomped on it.

Ok, now that I'm bawliing I will tell you this: she's not coming back here to live if I have anything to say about it (and believe me, I have a lot to say about it). My DH has 2 life-threatening illnesses and I refuse to let her hurt him anymore. He doesn't need the drama--it's bad for his health and I believe she's broken his heart this time. She's hurt me so often in the last year that I'm fairly used to it, but she will NOT treat her Dad like this anymore.

Originally Posted by libby74

It amazes me how much DD has changed in the last year. I used to tell anyone that would listen that we couldn't have asked for a better daughter---she was so considerate and helpful, would give me hugs for no reason, if I was gone for the day she'd clean house---things that you really don't expect a 19 or 20 year old to do. Now, it's as if she's grabbed my heart and stomped on it.

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Such a drastic change is more than just acting out, there is a root cause behind it, and it could be that she's using drugs. I think you said in another post that she isn't, or has told you that she isn't, but drug users tend to lie.

I hope she gets the help that she needs. You are her Mom and of course shoving her out into the street (even though she went on her own), hurts. But sometimes you have to use tough love in order to show how much you actually do love someone, especially if their behaviour is destructive not only to themselves, but to others around them.

You absolutely did the right thing, no matter how much you are hurting and likely doubting it.

Originally Posted by Natalie_ca

Such a drastic change is more than just acting out, there is a root cause behind it, and it could be that she's using drugs. I think you said in another post that she isn't, or has told you that she isn't, but drug users tend to lie..

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Funny you should mention that; lying is what DD does best.
Having said that, I still don't think drugs enter into it. I've searched her room and car on occasion, wondering about the possibility of drugs. I've never found any evidence of anything and, having a brother and a bil who used, I do have an idea what to look for.

Just to add---I wasn't ignoring the people who suggested locks on our gates and possibly contacting the police for extra drive-bys. DH suggested just this morning that we get locks for the gates, and I'm totally for it. In fact, we have a garden shed that I probably haven't locked in 2-3 years because I never felt it was necessary. I started locking it a couple of weeks ago; when DD asked why it was locked I looked her straight in the eye and told her "Because I don't know who I can trust."

If there are any more creepy phone calls or signs that someone's been in our yard at night, I'll have to let the police know.

As much as it hurts, you did the right thing.

Good for you! The only other thing I would suggest is that if she's not paying for her own vehicle & insurance (and you are) that you drop her from the insurance and take the car back. Same thing for cell phone, laptop, and tv. If you have credit cards, make sure she doesn't have access to them. Have her meet you in a neutral location to pick up anything she's left behind.

She's 21, an adult who needs to start acting like an adult. Treating her like a child and enabling her will only give her an excuse to keep on acting the way she is. It's not like she's a 15 year old girl, she TWENTY ONE. I'm sure you'd have liked her to learn about life the easy way, but remember, SHE chose to learn the hard way, not you. Don't feel guilty for changing the locks. Goodness, I'm only two years older than her and left childish behaviours like that behind years ago. At 21 I already had finished school, began my career, had my own car, had a stable relationship with my BF and bought my house a year later. If I were you, I'd have kicked her out long ago. That behaviour is unacceptable and would not be tolerated in my house.

Originally Posted by stephanietx

Good for you! The only other thing I would suggest is that if she's not paying for her own vehicle & insurance (and you are) that you drop her from the insurance and take the car back. Same thing for cell phone, laptop, and tv. If you have credit cards, make sure she doesn't have access to them. Have her meet you in a neutral location to pick up anything she's left behind.

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I second that! i think i vaguely remembering you say that you had something to do with the car but i cant remember what it was sorry

I think you are doing the right thing, but you and your hubby will have to remain strong together and show no weakness because she will try and weedle her way back in i know that sounds harsh but thats exactly what my mother would do to me if i behaved in that way, my self and my mam have fell out many a time she always plays the tough love card and tells me if i dont like it i can move which she knows makes me back down

I do hope your daugter comes to her senses, I do also believe you are doing the right thing

Good for you! The only other thing I would suggest is that if she's not paying for her own vehicle & insurance (and you are) that you drop her from the insurance and take the car back. Same thing for cell phone, laptop, and tv. If you have credit cards, make sure she doesn't have access to them. Have her meet you in a neutral location to pick up anything she's left behind

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She is paying for her car, her insurance, and her cellphone; the laptop was a gift when we thought she was going to college (she dropped out last year) and she bought the tv herself. She has no credit cards, and she doesn't know where I keep mine. She also doesn't have her savings account book, because she blew thru $7000 last fall (most of it on the ex-fiance).
As far as the car goes, I'm her loan co-signer. I've told her to get my name off the loan, but the bank won't remove it unless she can find another co-signer. The way she's alienating everyone in her family means no one else will do it, so I'm apparently stuck. DH and I have excellent credit, so I really don't know what to do if she should default on the loan. Of course, my name isn't listed as a co-owner; does anyone know if that's actually a good idea?

Guess who tried to walk in the front door this afternoon? When she discovered it was locked she tried her key, which didn't work. She rang the doorbell; I ignored her. She phoned; I ignored her. After 45 minutes of being harrassed, I finally opened the door and asked what she wanted. Well, she needed to get more of her stuff. I told her that her Dad and I would pack her things and she could come get them off the front porch on Thursday. But, how would we know what she wanted? I told her she'd just have to trust us, something we hadn't been able to do with her. I made her give me back the key for our garage, and told her she wasn't coming back in the house. I also reminded her that I had warned her repeatedly that she was going to be on her own if she kept making stupid choices. Packing up and moving things in the middle of the night was a stupid choice. Not letting her Dad and me know where she'd gone was also a supid choice. Bottom line--I told her "You're on your own" , closed the door and locked it.

I hate to admit it, but that felt really, really good. Of course, now I have to spend the next couple of days packing.

Good for you!!! Honestly I think that you are making the best choice possible for yourself and her. My mom did the same thing to me and it took some drastic measures for me to straighten my act up and now I love my life. More parents need to step up and do the tough stuff instead of hoping it will all stop!!!

Dont worry someday she will straighten up her act and have to deal with all the consequences of her actions just keep sticking this thru....

I know DH & I are doing the right thing, but both of us are in so much pain right now.
When he got home from work last night I told him about our daughter's visit. He's the wishy-washy one, and thought maybe we should let her come in and pack her stuff and try to talk to her. I reminded him that we have to be a solid force in this. I could tell he was having a problem with it. We went to the gas station and, of course, he wanted to drive by the neighbor's house to see if that's where DD's car was. Not only was her car there, but so was the new bf who we had told her to keep away from our house. I was totally creeped out, and ask DH how he felt about it. When he answered that he was really angry, I knew he was convinced that we're doing the right thing. (DH is a man who rarely gets angry and avoids confrontations at all costs. I think that comes from having an abusive, alcoholic dad)

I'm totally ashamed of DD right now. The 16 y.o. that she's apparently moved in with has a 74 y.o. Dad who has been put right in the middle of all this drama. DD has known him since she was about 8 and has always complained about how his family takes advantage of him (which they do). He has a grandson who is a convicted sex offender who lives with him off and on. His 16 y.o. daughter is really his grand-daughter who he adopted after her Mother abandoned her and his son (the baby-daddy) wanted nothing to do with her. Everyone in his family has a police record a mile long and they all expect my neighbor to bail them out and give them a place to live. He's a sweet man, but a total push-over. For DD to have involved him in this makes my blood boil. For DD to have put a 16 y.o. in the middle of this is unforgivable. And then she brings her new bf into the mix.

I really don't think there are strong enough words to express how ashamed of her and angry at her I am. I have decided just to pack the bare minimum for her (toiletries and such) and let her pack the rest of her stuff herself while her Dad and I are here to watch her. I'm too old to be lugging her junk downstairs from her room, but I don't want her rummaging thru my bathroom taking everything that isn't nailed down.

Guess who tried to walk in the front door this afternoon? When she discovered it was locked she tried her key, which didn't work. She rang the doorbell; I ignored her. She phoned; I ignored her. After 45 minutes of being harrassed, I finally opened the door and asked what she wanted. Well, she needed to get more of her stuff. I told her that her Dad and I would pack her things and she could come get them off the front porch on Thursday. But, how would we know what she wanted? I told her she'd just have to trust us, something we hadn't been able to do with her. I made her give me back the key for our garage, and told her she wasn't coming back in the house. I also reminded her that I had warned her repeatedly that she was going to be on her own if she kept making stupid choices. Packing up and moving things in the middle of the night was a stupid choice. Not letting her Dad and me know where she'd gone was also a supid choice. Bottom line--I told her "You're on your own" , closed the door and locked it.

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The next time she does this call the cops. If your DH wants to pack up her things, let him. You can put them on the curb and she can come pick them up, but you're right, you do need to be a united front. I'm sure he's having a tough time with this because she's his little girl and it's so hard to see our children making poor choices when we have the experience to know the consequences. Some people have to learn the hard way. Keep strong and keep encouraging your husband.

Originally Posted by Natalie_ca

Finally!!

You did the right thing changing the locks on the doors. However, you and your husband should have made that decision for her long ago and gave her the boot. We teach people how to treat us and you were teaching her that she could disrespect you both all she wanted and that she was always going to be welcome into your home, no matter what. And she took advantage of that, big time which caused you and your DH huge amounts of stress.

Thank goodness she is gone!

Now don't make the mistake of taking her back into your home even if she agrees to rules. You and I both know that she won't keep her end of the bargain and that it would be just empty promises on her part to get back into your home where she had it made in the shade from the sounds of your other posts.

She will cry and whine and manipulate and guilt you. Don't cave in.

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I completely agree. You did the right thing. Please don't wimp out and let her back in. She is old enough to figure out how to make it on her own. If she absolutely needs things from the house, then she can call you and tell you what it is, and then you can mail it to her, or leave it in a bag on the front porch for her to pick up. Whatever you do, do NOT give her a key or let her in. If she wants to talk, go meet her in a park or public place. I would also consider getting a monitored alarm system.

Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom

:
She is old enough to figure out how to make it on her own. If she absolutely needs things from the house, then she can call you and tell you what it is, and then you can mail it to her, or leave it in a bag on the front porch for her to pick up. Whatever you do, do NOT give her a key or let her in. If she wants to talk, go meet her in a park or public place. .

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My chiropractor suggested meeting in a public place, too.

The thing about this that really, really angers me is the fact that she's NOT out trying to make it on her own. She's sucking off the good-naturedness of a neighbor; she now has all the freedom she wants with none of the responsibilities of being part of a family. She absolutely will not be given a new house key. I am absolutely, totally ashamed of her for taking advantage of the neighbor this way. And I'm somewhat put out at him, as well. In his defense, tho, his 16 y.o. daughter is a force of nature, and I believe he does anything she tells him to do just to keep peace. (and shame on him for that)

I'm going to be straight with you. I know she is your daughter and you love her, BUT she is very angry with you now, and for your own safety if you meet with her, do it in a very public place and do not let her into your house, even and maybe especially if you are there.

No one likes to think that their child could be violent, but there are many, many cases similar to yours where the child went postal and killed his/her parents - sometimes alone, but sometimes with the help of a boyfriend or girlfriend.

Just keep knowing that you are doing the right thing. Part of being a good parent is setting boundaries. Kids, even adult kids, need to know where the boundaries are. If there are no boundaries, then the child keeps pushing the envelope, escalating the bad behavior searching in vain for the illusive boundary. You have now set a boundary. Whatever you do, do not cave to her demands or the bad behavior will just continue and get worse.

Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom

I'm going to be straight with you. I know she is your daughter and you love her, BUT she is very angry with you now, and for your own safety if you meet with her, do it in a very public place and do not let her into your house, even and maybe especially if you are there.

No one likes to think that their child could be violent, but there are many, many cases similar to yours where the child went postal and killed his/her parents - sometimes alone, but sometimes with the help of a boyfriend or girlfriend. .

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Honestly, that thought never crossed my mind. DD is all of 4'11" and 100 lbs soaking wet. The new bf, on the other hand, comes from a family that I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them. Several members have arrests for assault and battery and, of course, the bf's brother has pending gun-running charges.

Now, having said that, DH and I decided it wasn't up to us (actually me) to pack her stuff and cart the boxes down from upstairs. I've sent her a text that she can come by tomorrow while both of us are home, pack her own stuff and get it out of here. No one else will be allowed in, and the doors will be locked while she's packing. DH is a pussy-cat, but he's also 6'3" and 275 lbs. Most people take one look at him and decide it would be a bad idea to provoke him. I truly can't imagine DD would be hateful/stupid enough to try something. I will, however, be watching her like a hawk--just in case.

DH is having a hard time. He's second guessing our decision to change the locks, comes home from work and asks if I've heard from DD, thinks we should sit her down and talk things over with her. Deep down he knows we're doing the right thing, but she's his baby girl and he's been totally in love with her since the day she came to us, and he's quite possibly been the proudest man in town when he talks about her. She's really, really hurt him.