Aggresive dog whats the line

I got him from a shelter early this year. He started off ok but was very sick. as he got better new sides came out-was ok with anyone then started closing out to new ppl, ppl he saw every 2-3 weeks, ppl he saw once a week. Hes totally unpredicatble and recently tried to bite sister(muzzle on) I am looking for trainers near me who arent about beating the dog or using anything harsh(i think it would make this all worse and think no one deserves that) but also want opinions from ppl who have gone throguh this.
I am almost hesitant to go forward with training as I am firm believer in there are plenty of non biting dogs getting killed why should I go through all this and in year I may still watch him attack someone. I refuse to bring him back to shelter to be pawned off or sit in cage days then get euthed by techs...If its going to happen I will be there not pass the problem to the overworked shelter workers and a face he dont know.

I have taken care of 5 dogs before, one I grew up with(rotti, pit, german x, golden and boston)

I just feel at some point this dogs going to turn on me or husband or god forbid a cat.

Thanks for any insight as I wasnt able to sleep knowing I have company coming over and I got to get him contained and I continue to worry even when hes in a crate in another room what if...

That's a real shame. Good for you looking for a real trainer. You might try this association, they have a search feature.
http://www.apdt.com/default.aspx

Good luck.

How old is he ? what breed is he? I agree you need to look into a trainer, but as one who had a deangerous animal in the end it may not work

What breed is he and how old is he? Has he had a check from the vet to see if there are any medical issues going on?

Pit. 2 ish. Abused-physically has scars still. Thanks for the link. I just feel theres dogs that go through similar and are ok to some extent. Walking he likes but issue there is only places I can walk him now are busier roads as I don't want to deal with kids playing(he was ok at start but now seems to be very nervous and last thing I!!! want to be part of is messing up a kid phy/mentally. There are family dogs dying in shelters and I can hardly walk block without issues.

Going to get him evaluated by few ppl-just cause if it turns out for the worst ill be ok in decision and maybe one will know something others dont. or a different approach.

no issues medically speaking. long over the kennel cough. I used to take him to petsmart on dead days(no kids out and just adults and few at that. He was nervous but started to be wonderful. But even his friend over there noted the change of how he didnt want to interact. I could understand a shy dog or prefers to be left alone but not to extreme its at. I ALWAYS keep him on a short leash in public except when hes being jogged or biked he goes on 4 ft.

Was his thyroid checked? Low thyroid function causes a lot of "unexplained" dog aggression.Sometimes it's a low normal that still causes problems. Dr. Dodds is running a thyroid study.....if your vet can send the results to her that would be best.

I think any dog should be fully evaluated before being killed for aggression problems. Something is obviously wrong---pits aren't supposed to show any kind of human aggression. It's not normal for the breed. Since he started off not being aggressive I'm inclined to think it should be fixable. If he was born unstable it would have shown up before now.

Going to call shelter tom and get his tests faxed to vet for them to see. I am taking this route and making sure I am through before I do anything

I am interested in some reading I have done that severly sick/abused dogs have a honeymoon period so to speak(they will be ok for a lil while after adoption then settle in to show true colors-anyone have opinions one way or the other on that? I know he was on doxy for 10 and was supposed to have been on it at shelter but unsure if given correctly/whos to say he didnt puke it up.

Just sent email back to one trainer to set up a time to meet/his issues. Also wondering what "training" owners has started him on(assuming he was to be used as guard/fighting-doubt a fight to win maybe bait dog) He is ok with small dogs(meet on leash but not face to face as I dont want to know) but anything bigger hes not interested in meeting. When a small dog barks he shows interest but not growling back or any excessive, but if a big dog looks at him hell freeze up.

When I got him hed bark at mom/dad but settle down with a ENOUGH! not yelled just sternly said. He also knowsthat command to stop playing/leave kitty cats alone. Now he just keeps going and jumps ALOT never jumped on ppl(moms got nerve issues and that CANT be)
Currently I keep muzzle on and leash on. When he gets real nippy(attempts as muzzle takes care of that) I put him in crate. He has gotten tears in paws from attempts to "break out"

Let you know what happens with trainers/evaluations. I can see how he feels towards us but its that one time a door don't shut or he breaks collar or something thats my major fear. so who knows maybe if he was trained real well to few commands hed be ok if we still took all precautions(short leashes, goes out on tie out only when i am there, no one comes in without his muzzle being on, food not around except for feeding-hes shown food issues towards cats near dish early on in the game but not us)

I can't wait to get a professionals opinion on where we stand and how he rates compared to others.

Honestly he doesn't sound very aggressive to me. Just exuberant. And largely untrained. I think with proper training he should be fine. What made you put him in a muzzle? Just the mouthing/nipping? Of course nobody can say for sure without seeing him in action but just from your description he sounds like a good dog who simply doesn't understand human rules.

A couple of things.

One, yes it is normal for there to be an initial period where when a dog enters a new home, they don't open up and show all of their personality after a settling in period. It can takes weeks, months, even a year or two.

Two what often happens with dogs that have been abused is that once they figure out that their new humans are ok and can be trusted, the dog becomes extremely protective of their new humans. It's as if the dog knows how rotten other people and dogs can be and feels a need to offer its protection.

Something else that might be going on is that certain things may be triggering bad memories. For example if the dog was abused while in a crate, it's obvious that the dog will want no part whatsoever of being crated and will do anything to get out. And by the way, dogs with severe SA issues (not sure if this is the case here or not) sometimes get much WORSE and not better if they are crated.

It does sound like you need a professional and I hope you get one. In the meantime I think the best thing to do is get the dog into a predictable routine - same things should happen at the same time every day. Teach it simple commands like sit and down. If you can interact with the dog on this basis and the dog knows what's expected that also helps make for a dog that looks to you for guidance on how to react to a situation instead of deciding himself to bark or nip.

I've never blamed a dog for bad behavior. I blame myself for not taking control of the dog so that it blindly follows my lead. Some people call it old fashioned, but if you don't take the alpha dog role in your house, the dog will do what it wants to do. If it's a dog that was formerly abused or a dominant breed, that will result in disaster.

When looking for a trainer, don't bother with one that only teaches the basic dog commands (sit, walk on lead, stay). Find one that is a behaviorist and requires that they coach you as much as they coach the dog. If you understand their needs, the dog will follow you, but you have to understand those needs.

Talked to petsmart trainer and she has worked with pits in past. I had taken him just to get him out of house and ended up liking her. She has worked with many shelter dogs with same thing. He is going to go to a training class just to get more socialized she said her main concern for him is alot of fear based issues.. The muzzle came about after he tried to jump up and out at a person. and then even with one on he tried to go right for my sisters nose.
He will wear one in the class.

I trained him sit-actually did that early on and hes quite good. Even with food being on ground he waits. Walking on lead he was ok with from start-jumps a bit from being excited but I take him out a few times a day and correct that.

Far as bad memories-OH yeah..BAGS hates them not even the actual opening just them in general. And cigerettes. He was burned a few spots tho with one. I don't smoke so thats good! .

He has not been crated in a while just tied to me lol When husbands friends came over and I needed to do a few things I looped leash to couch. Hes gotten better with house training. Not sure if its to do with me taking him out to stores as don't seem logical but since I have been going to petsmart/petco/vets with him a few times a week seems more relaxed. Husband made a comment of wow hes not done anything in awhile?! Then again maybe hes just happy with muzzle in sense hes got more freedom. He still does try to bite with it on.

Had a runin with a lady that made me want to take muzzle off and just let him bark/growl/whatever. told me I should "give him back to shelter let osmeone else deal with him and buy from petstore in town" took me alot to nicely put my reply of no way hes going back and those dogs are only "better" at petstore as they are "purebred" little dogs. they still may bite just who cares so much when its a couple pounds. She was off anyway but funny thing was Cody remained calm by her. almost like he knew. she showed no real interest in him and probably no eye contact. he sat-tail hidden tho.

Behaviorist at shelter called back. Told me keep getting him out different places/scenes and recomended using muzzle on outings. Also said they see enough of this. and some returns. shes also got one of hers in same boat. cant use thier trainers as I cant make that drive often enough.

Put off anything at moment besides petsmart due to hospital bill I just had to pick up for myself. Should be able to get on track in month tho.
Oh no more chairs near counter...he made jump up and "cleaned" my plates that were drying. Thanks just what I wanted.

So anyway all in all hes ok for now. Loves his walks on busy roads free of ppl...just cars(SUCH a ny dog huh?!) Hopefully we can keep him on track. Hes good about not even attempting to dart out of the house door but the cars another story(leash tied to the handle on passenger side stops any attemps there but still working on a wait command...tho thats not an easy one. he hates me to leaave but minute doors closed he barks but settles right down(lol left my phone on record and left house. barked about 2 minutes then silent for 15 I was gone-went to the couch in other room didnt even wait by the window.

Will update you guys down road. Thanks for advice

Originally Posted by catsallaround

Talked to petsmart trainer and she has worked with pits in past. I had taken him just to get him out of house and ended up liking her. She has worked with many shelter dogs with same thing. He is going to go to a training class just to get more socialized she said her main concern for him is alot of fear based issues

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I have two rescue dogs. One was a serious abuse case the other abandoned.

The serious abuse dog is absolutely fabulous. He learns quick, is friendly with everything, good with the cats - an absolute sweetie. He is a German Shepherd.

The other, a cross GSD/Belgium Shepherd, is a different story altogether. He is currently in specialist classes as he has fear aggression, particularly with other dogs and he is always muzzled and kept on the lead when we are out. He does not like children either, but more worrying, he is not good with cats. We feel the animal sanctuary who rehomed him to us were a little less than honest. We emphasised that any dog we rehomed from them MUST be good with cats. They said he was - we found out he was not - and still is not.

We have had him almost 3 years and for those 3 years he has been a nightmare. We always have to watch him like a hawk especially if there our cats are near him. He just can't leave them alone.

Frankly, he is on his last chance with us. If this specialist training does not work (the trainer/behaviourist is with the RSPCA and is brilliant at turning dogs round) then we will have no option to return him to the sanctuary which we do not want to do.

Our dog's biggest problem is his breed. We only discovered he was part Belgium Shepherd recently - quite by accident and Belgium Shepherds are NOT good with cats or other small animals and can be very difficult to train.

He nearly got our kitten last night - and that was right in front of us. He knows he is not allowed to chase cats - any cat but can't seem to help himself. He knew straight away he'd done wrong and went and lay down at the opposite side of the room but within a few minutes he's fixated on the cats again.

What I'm saying is that sometimes a dog is not going to change no matter how much training you do (the training my dog is doing is reward based) and you may have to return your dog.

It is a horrible thought and we've been going through hoops for almost 3 years but nothing has changed. It is a nightmare walking our dog. He lunges at everything and everyone he sees, barking and snarling. We can't walk the two dogs together so we have to walk them one at a time. I can't handle Max - my husband has to yet our other dog, Buddy walks on or off lead, comes back when he's called and is really gentle and kind with the cats.

It is very true that a rescue dog, on average, takes 3 months to settle in - and then, as others have said, show their true colours.

Having to give your dog back is something you might have to contemplate as we are.

The only saving grace is we know if we have to give our dog back, he will stay at the sanctuary for the rest of his life - just like his sister who has the same problems, was rehomed 4 times and returned 4 times because she was aggressive towards cats and small animals. She has been there as long as we've had Max, yet we were never told they were brother and sister

Not only have they given us a nightmare but if we can't get Max sorted out then it will be heartbreaking for him too as I know he loves us very much - and we love him dearly too.

Not a nice situation you are in - so similar to us and you have my heartfelt sympathies with this.

Definitely find a behaviorist trainer. I hope it works out!

I agree with momofmany. Although I do not like, and will never support Cesar Milan. I highly recommend Bark Busters.


We had a dog a few years ago that we got from a local shelter when he was a puppy that was very very aggressive and protective. We couldn't have anyone over without having to put him in the backyard. He had been neglected and possibly abused. He was a Golden Retriever/Border Collie mix. We tried training him etc. through a professional behaviorist/trainer. We spent a lot of money on trying to help him. In the end nothing we tried worked. He ended up biting our pastors daughter. Our trainer advised us to put him down. Nothing else was an option as we had/have kids in the house and he wasn't good with kids because he was highly unpredictable. Yet he wasn't able to be rehomed to a farm with only adults or older kids. It was very sad. I still miss him terribly, but in the end I know it was the right thing to do.