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By His Own Words-What did Obama Say

post #1 of 40
7/13/10 at 8:23pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default...=128&view=item

This is the first time I have seen this article. It is out there on several other sites. On this site he mentions his Muslim faith.
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post #2 of 40
7/13/10 at 10:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default...=128&view=item

This is the first time I have seen this article. It is out there on several other sites. On this site he mentions his Muslim faith.
Well, that's interesting! Suppose he saw the Muslim light before, during or after his close affiliation with Jeremiah Wright and his black liberation theology?
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post #3 of 40
7/13/10 at 11:18pm
I see nothing in there that proves that those are Obama's own words - it can all be hearsay as far as I am concerned. Because some guy, with a with a biased agenda says that Obama told him in private something doesn't make it any where close to being the truth IMHO.
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post #4 of 40
7/14/10 at 12:36am
Just a reminder to treat all faiths with respect, in keeping with the forum rules; failure to do so will result in disciplinary action.
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post #5 of 40
7/14/10 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
I see nothing in there that proves that those are Obama's own words - it can all be hearsay as far as I am concerned. Because some guy, with a with a biased agenda says that Obama told him in private something doesn't make it any where close to being the truth IMHO.
Exactly. Here we go again.
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post #6 of 40
7/14/10 at 8:15am
I feel sorry for anyone that actually believes he's a Christian - do you really think he would be in there now if he declared he was a Muslim????

Actions speak a lot louder then words.
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post #7 of 40
7/14/10 at 10:01am
Personally, I don't think his faith makes any difference one way or the other.

But, if he lied about it...that's another matter entirely.
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post #8 of 40
7/14/10 at 10:20am
Skippy - in some ways it does matter what his faith is. Because you are gonna live your life and be more inclined to live out your faith. If he is Muslim (which I believe he is - he's certainly NOT Christian), then he will be more in favor with the teaching and actions of Muslims - and not of the country he's supposed to be in charge of.

We've already seen some of the results with how he reacts to Muslims vs Jewish (Isreal) and how he treats/handles terrorists. He wants NASA to reach out and make friends with the Muslims? Come on - anyone that doesn't have blinders on can see what the real truth is.
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post #9 of 40
7/14/10 at 10:26am
There is a big difference in being a Muslin and a Muslin Extremist, which people tend to forget. Being an extremist is bad in any religion and politics view, for that matter. His faith should not matter - this is a free country, with a clear separation of church and State, and no where in the constitution it says this is a Christian country and that the President should be a Christian.
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post #10 of 40
7/14/10 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
There is a big difference in being a Muslin and a Muslin Extremist, which people tend to forget. Being an extremist is bad in any religion and politics view, for that matter. His faith should not matter - this is a free country, with a clear separation of church and State, and no where in the constitution it says this is a Christian country and that the President should be a Christian.
completly agree with Carolina there!

I know i shouldnt comment really as he doesnt run the country i live in i dont see what his relgion matters
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post #11 of 40
7/14/10 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Skippy - in some ways it does matter what his faith is. Because you are gonna live your life and be more inclined to live out your faith. If he is Muslim (which I believe he is - he's certainly NOT Christian), then he will be more in favor with the teaching and actions of Muslims - and not of the country he's supposed to be in charge of.

We've already seen some of the results with how he reacts to Muslims vs Jewish (Isreal) and how he treats/handles terrorists. He wants NASA to reach out and make friends with the Muslims? Come on - anyone that doesn't have blinders on can see what the real truth is.
No, it doesn't matter. Islam is every bit as American as Christianity is. The only part that would be of issue is, did he lie about it? Personally, I see no reason to think he did, after all, no religion I know of has a membership card or naturalization test. You have to take the word of the individual as to what faith they follow..
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post #12 of 40
7/14/10 at 12:45pm
I disagree with taking one's word as to what their faith is. Actions speak louder then words. You have many people claiming they are Christian, etc but if you watch and listen to them - they are very much non (faith) they are proclaiming to be.

His actions speak Muslim - not Christian.
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post #13 of 40
7/14/10 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Skippy - in some ways it does matter what his faith is. Because you are gonna live your life and be more inclined to live out your faith. If he is Muslim (which I believe he is - he's certainly NOT Christian), then he will be more in favor with the teaching and actions of Muslims - and not of the country he's supposed to be in charge of.
Isn't that the same argument that was brought up against JFK? That the US would become a puppet of the Vatican if JFK were to be elected?

Anyway, here is an article that I find sheds light on Obama and his faith.
Finding His Faith
So much has been made about Barack Obama's religion. But what does he believe, and how did he arrive at those beliefs?
http://www.newsweek.com/2008/07/11/f...his-faith.html
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post #14 of 40
7/14/10 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I disagree with taking one's word as to what their faith is. Actions speak louder then words. You have many people claiming they are Christian, etc but if you watch and listen to them - they are very much non (faith) they are proclaiming to be.

His actions speak Muslim - not Christian.
So Christianity may NOT be the majority religion in the US? After all, the only indication we have to their faith is their word. If they're lying, then the numbers are all wrong.
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post #15 of 40
7/14/10 at 12:55pm
Freedom of religion is a right guaranteed on the constitution. Furthermore, the constitution also guarantees that the Government shall not give preference to one religion over another.
Prejudice against religious beliefs is therefore, unconstitutional.

Quote:
first amendment: an overview

The First Amendment of the United States Constitution protects the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression from government interference. See U.S. Const. amend. I. Freedom of expression consists of the rights to freedom of speech, press, assembly and to petition the government for a redress of grievances, and the implied rights of association and belief. The Supreme Court interprets the extent of the protection afforded to these rights. The First Amendment has been interpreted by the Court as applying to the entire federal government even though it is only expressly applicable to Congress. Furthermore, the Court has interpreted, the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment as protecting the rights in the First Amendment from interference by state governments. See U.S. Const. amend. XIV.
Two clauses in the First Amendment guarantee freedom of religion. The establishment clause prohibits the government from passing legislation to establish an official religion or preferring one religion over another. It enforces the "separation of church and state." Some governmental activity related to religion has been declared constitutional by the Supreme Court. For example, providing bus transportation for parochial school students and the enforcement of "blue laws" is not prohibited. The free exercise clause prohibits the government, in most instances, from interfering with a person's practice of their religion.
http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/First_amendment
Quote:
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Quote:
The First Amendment's Establishment Clause prohibits the government from making any law “respecting an establishment of religion.” This clause not only forbids the government from establishing an official religion, but also prohibits government actions that unduly favor one religion over another. It also prohibits the government from unduly preferring religion over non-religion, or non-religion over religion.http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/establishment_clause
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post #16 of 40
7/14/10 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
Freedom of religion is a right guaranteed on the constitution. Furthermore, the constitution also guarantees that the Government shall not give preference to one religion over another.
Prejudice against religious beliefs is therefore, unconstitutional.
All completely correct. But in voting, we're actually talking about the people, not the Government. I fully expect people to vote in respect to their faith; faith being a large part of who many people are.

If someone running for office were to lie about their faith for the purpose of gleaning votes, then they are basically using their faith against them and turning it into just another hollow campaign promise, and to me, that's just wrong.
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post #17 of 40
7/14/10 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I disagree with taking one's word as to what their faith is. Actions speak louder then words. You have many people claiming they are Christian, etc but if you watch and listen to them - they are very much non (faith) they are proclaiming to be.

His actions speak Muslim - not Christian.
To what actions are you referring?
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post #18 of 40
7/14/10 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
All completely correct. But in voting, we're actually talking about the people, not the Government. I fully expect people to vote in respect to their faith; faith being a large part of who many people are.

If someone running for office were to lie about their faith for the purpose of gleaning votes, then they are basically using their faith against them and turning it into just another hollow campaign promise, and to me, that's just wrong.
Please show us how he lied.
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post #19 of 40
7/14/10 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
Please show us how he lied.
I didn't say he did. I'm saying "IF" he did. That's the only part of the discussion I'd consider to be an issue, and that's only if he actually did so. Personally, I don't see any actual reason why he would.

Paul wasn't born a Christian either, and that doesn't seem to bother anyone.
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post #20 of 40
7/14/10 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
I didn't say he did. I'm saying "IF" he did. That's the only part of the discussion I'd consider to be an issue, and that's only if he actually did so. Personally, I don't see any actual reason why he would.

Paul wasn't born a Christian either, and that doesn't seem to bother anyone.
That is my point - I don't see that he lied.
Now, people here are making an issue of him being Muslim (which would not matter, but they don't even have proof of that in the first place, IF it mattered which again, it doesn't), and that is why thought of reminding them of what the constitution says and what this country is about.
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post #21 of 40
7/14/10 at 2:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I disagree with taking one's word as to what their faith is. Actions speak louder then words. You have many people claiming they are Christian, etc but if you watch and listen to them - they are very much non (faith) they are proclaiming to be.

His actions speak Muslim - not Christian.
Who cares what religion anybody is. Wasn't this country founded on the priciples of relgious freedom? Why does everyone in this nation have to be a Christian? Wouldn't it be better if we accepted everyone as they are, both in this country and around the world, and maybe tried to understand their beliefs a little bit? There's a big difference between Muslim extremism and Muslim beliefs as well as Christian beliefs and Christian extremism. Extremism in any form is bad, but everyone should be free to practice whatever religion or non-religion or belief that speaks the loudest to their heart and soul, as long as it doesn't invlove doing harm to anyone.

I wish they'd start in grade school and teach about world religions - not as
indoctrination, but as history and social studies. Maybe if there was more understanding and less ignorance, we could do away with some of these stupid wars people are always wanting to fight because God is on "their side" and they just have to kill (or convert) anyone who isn't like them.
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post #22 of 40
7/14/10 at 6:42pm
Yes this country was founded on religious freedom - the freedom to worship without one relgion being "the" religion. I never said that everyone had to be Christian.

But your religion does guide your actions and beliefs in how to approach things. The founding fathers never meant that religion should be ignored when running the country. Their beliefs was that the government should not endorse one particular religion over another. In UK the government sponsors one religion - taxes go to that religion. In American taxes should not support one religion.

That is what really is meant by "separation of church/state" - so many misinterprete his to mean NO religion in government. Religion will always have a small part in government whether you like it or not. If you study how the government is run with Congress, you will find that the branches are based on the Presbyterian faith in how its set up.

Again, if Obama had said he was Muslim, he never would have been elected President. But his actions tell otherwise.
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post #23 of 40
7/14/10 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Yes this country was founded on religious freedom - the freedom to worship without one relgion being "the" religion. I never said that everyone had to be Christian.

Their beliefs was that the government should not endorse one particular religion over another. In UK the government sponsors one religion - taxes go to that religion. In American taxes should not support one religion.

That is what really is meant by "separation of church/state" - so many misinterprete his to mean NO religion in government. Religion will always have a small part in government whether you like it or not. If you study how the government is run with Congress, you will find that the branches are based on the Presbyterian faith in how its set up.

Again, if Obama had said he was Muslim, he never would have been elected President. But his actions tell otherwise.
The First Amendment not only rules the separation of Church and State, but most importantly, Freedom of Religion. Freedom of Religion is Freedom of Religion - that is not only for Christians, you know? It is for everybody and every faith in this country.

Quote:
But your religion does guide your actions and beliefs in how to approach things.
This goes along with Freedom of Religion - you have the Constitutional right to choose and practice your own faith; the President has the same rights.

Quote:
The founding fathers never meant that religion should be ignored when running the country.
Really? Where did they dictate that the rulers of the country had to religious? Show us that. You cannot know that for a fact. The founding fathers created this country to be a free country above all.

Quote:
But his actions tell otherwise.
You keep saying this, but you never answered the question on what actions are you referring to.

How are you so sure that he is Muslim? Not that that matters, because it doesn't... But if that is your problem to begin with, how are you so sure?

Can you prove that he is and he lied?
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post #24 of 40
7/14/10 at 7:04pm
Golden actually IS right. The 1st Amendment places that restriction solely on Congress. If any member of Government wants to base each and every decision and vote he makes on his faith, then that is completely allowed. Congress simply cannot pass any laws that favor one religion over any other, and cannot create a "state" religion. Passing a law also refers to passing a budget, as they are signed into law once they are passed. So, funding any religious activities through the US Budget is unconstitutional.

But everyone, at every level of government, is allowed to vote in compliance with their faith, and I for one would fully expect them to.
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post #25 of 40
7/14/10 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Golden actually IS right. The 1st Amendment places that restriction solely on Congress. If any member of Government wants to base each and every decision and vote he makes on his faith, then that is completely allowed. Congress simply cannot pass any laws that favor one religion over any other, and cannot create a "state" religion. Passing a law also refers to passing a budget, as they are signed into law once they are passed. So, funding any religious activities through the US Budget is unconstitutional.

But everyone, at every level of government, is allowed to vote in compliance with their faith, and I for one would fully expect them to.
But, it still guarantees that the citizens will have Freedom of religion - From the 1st Amendment:
Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech
Yes, it is for Congress, because they are the ones making the laws, so what the First Amendment says is that they cannot make laws taking away the freedom of Religion from the US Citizens. By doing that it guarantees that the Religious Rights for the Citizens of this country will never be revoked. Thus, as a US Citizen, Obama's freedom of Religion has to be respected as well; it is his Constitutional Right.
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post #26 of 40
7/15/10 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
But, it still guarantees that the citizens will have Freedom of religion - From the 1st Amendment:

Yes, it is for Congress, because they are the ones making the laws, so what the First Amendment says is that they cannot make laws taking away the freedom of Religion from the US Citizens. By doing that it guarantees that the Religious Rights for the Citizens of this country will never be revoked. Thus, as a US Citizen, Obama's freedom of Religion has to be respected as well; it is his Constitutional Right.
Very true. But it ALSO means that each and every citizen has the freedom to consider the religious stance and leanings of the candidates they may or may not vote for, and can use that information in forming their vote.

The religious identity of the candidate does not make any difference at all when it comes to holding the office. But if a voter wants to consider that, they have every right to.
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post #27 of 40
7/15/10 at 7:13am
For sure, read any Israel-dedicated message board, and Obama is not a popular figure. For good reason, as his behavior regarding Israeli policy thus far has been, ummm...curious, at best.

As a very tangential aside, are any of you familiar with Biblical prophecy? I remember attending a seminar about it, and how the Anti-Christ wouldn't be allowed access into the Third Temple of Israel. Much debate over whether or not the Third Temple is literally the rebuilt Temple, or is simply synonomous with Israel itself. Obama hasn't been to Israel as President, despite trips to Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Repeatedly treats Bibi like trash and gets away with it.

Just sayin'...

Note: The preceding post was made with tongue pretty much in cheek, but I gotta tell ya...Obama's actions are enough to make me seriously squirm these days, on all sorts of levels.
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post #28 of 40
7/15/10 at 7:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keycube View Post
For sure, read any Israel-dedicated message board, and Obama is not a popular figure. For good reason, as his behavior regarding Israeli policy thus far has been, ummm...curious, at best.

As a very tangential aside, are any of you familiar with Biblical prophecy? I remember attending a seminar about it, and how the Anti-Christ wouldn't be allowed access into the Third Temple of Israel. Much debate over whether or not the Third Temple is literally the rebuilt Temple, or is simply synonomous with Israel itself. Obama hasn't been to Israel as President, despite trips to Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Repeatedly treats Bibi like trash and gets away with it.

Just sayin'...

Note: The preceding post was made with tongue pretty much in cheek, but I gotta tell ya...Obama's actions are enough to make me seriously squirm these days, on all sorts of levels.
But there are several Christian denominations that at the organizational level are critical of Israel's policies. The Church of Christ, which Obama attended in Chicago, is one of these.
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post #29 of 40
7/15/10 at 7:28am
Although many do not believe in the Bible and the predictions, the fact is that many of them are coming true if you study the book. The end is not far off and things in the world are getting a lot worse then decades ago when the end was predicted.

No one knows the time it will happen, but more and more of the Bible predictions are coming true step by step.
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post #30 of 40
7/15/10 at 7:54am
Yeah you are right, if we just wait long enough everything willl come true at some point.
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