Need advice on L-lysine and/or Transfer Factor / probiotics

pami

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Originally Posted by sharky

It has been thoroughly documented which strains and what types cats have.... Actually any bacteria can over growth look up candida, e coli etc... I unfortunately have volumes of info on this as I have had issues for decades...NON beneficial serves what purpose? If you need a Real explanation of how they work PM me...
Non beneficial bacteria is the bad kind, pathogenic bacteria.
No you brought up overgrowth of bacteria giving probiotics, I said probiotics do not introduce bad bacteria into the system. That is not how probiotics work, so you cannot have an overgrowth of bad bacteria giving probiotics.
Probiotics build your system, build your immune system so your own immune system can fight off a multitude of issues. It has been shown to be an excellent source, especially for cats fighting off many immune related issues.

You said cats only have 3 strains of bacteria. I am just trying to understand why and what you are saying in they only have 3 strains of bacteria.

Originally Posted by Carolina

There is a lot of information here:

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.co....htm#direction
and here
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/tf/s/pets.htm

The second link specially

I have used them all - The Classic was really the best one for Bugsy, and it did make a World of difference. I was reading this and I see there are some vets that recommend the Plus for FIV kitties... I would only recommend it if he doesn't have gingivitis or allergies - regardless, this is really a wonderful line!!
Shirleys-wellness cafe is great web site. Excellent info.
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by Pami

Non beneficial bacteria is the bad kind, pathogenic bacteria.
No you brought up overgrowth of bacteria giving probiotics, I said probiotics do not introduce bad bacteria into the system. That is not how probiotics work, so you cannot have an overgrowth of bad bacteria giving probiotics.
Probiotics build your system, build your immune system so your own immune system can fight off a multitude of issues. It has been shown to be an excellent source, especially for cats fighting off many immune related issues.
3 strains of Beneficial bacteria ... Non benificial actually are not all pathogenic and any bacteria can in fact get out of balance and cause issue

You said cats only have 3 strains of bacteria. I am just trying to understand why and what you are saying in they only have 3 strains of bacteria.



Shirleys-wellness cafe is great web site. Excellent info.
As I suggested try PMing me as you are on the right track but missing alot of the reality
 
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ldg

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Thanks for those links, Carolina.

I found out the yeast in the Feline Transfer Factor is Brewer's Yeast. Here is an excellent article on its benefits (in humans): http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/463265

"Brewer's yeast, also known as baker's yeast, Faex medicinalis, levure de bière, and medicinal yeast, is included in a class of probiotics or biotherapeutic agents defined as "live microbial supplements," which beneficially affect a host by improving its natural microbial balance. Brewer's yeast is produced as a byproduct of beer-brewing, using an extract of grains and hops. Other agents in the probiotic class include lactobacilli (found in some natural "live" yogurts) and lactic-acid-producing enterococci. Scientific names for yeast include Saccharomyces boulardii and S cerevisiae (family: Saccharomycetaceae).

Brewer's yeast is available as a supplement in a number of commercial preparations. It is increasingly being included in fermented milks and food products and can also be designated a "nutraceutical." Dosage varies from 1 gram per day to 6 grams daily (orally), depending on indications for use.[1] For example, the typical dose for preventing diarrhea is 250-500 mg 2-4 times a day. The dose for treatment of recurrent diarrhea is 1 gram daily for 4 weeks. In Crohn's disease, the recommended dose can be as high as 250 mg 3 times a day for 9 weeks.

The most common use for Brewer's yeast has been for antibiotic-associated diarrhea (AAD), traveler's diarrhea, rotavirus diarrhea in children, infectious diarrhea such as amebiasis, and general digestive problems including irritable bowel syndrome, lactose intolerance, relapsing Clostridium difficile colitis, and bacterial overgrowth in short bowel syndrome.[1] Evidence for possible effectiveness in diarrhea is more robust for AAD and prevention of relapse of C difficile colitis when used with pharmacologic agents (metronidazole or vancomycin) than for other gastrointestinal indications. Fewer data are available for its other uses, including vaginal Candida albicans yeast infections, high cholesterol levels, premenstrual syndrome, furunculosis, and adolescent acne. It is considered "likely ineffective" for gastrointestinal colonization by C albicans in patients with cystic fibrosis.

The mechanism of action of S boulardii and S cerevisiae is believed to be mediated by increased activity of intestinal disaccharidases, saccharidases, maltase, and lactase to reduce diarrhea. S boulardii typically reaches a maximum steady state within 3 days when taken orally and does not multiply in the gut. Less than 1% is recovered from the stools. In C difficile diarrhea, S boulardii may act by producing proteases that reduce the toxicity of toxins A and B.

The argument for using probiotics for treating AAD and other forms of diarrhea rests on cost-effectiveness and lack of or fewer side effects, compared with other alternative pharmacologic treatments."

Given I spent a lot of money for the Feline version of TF, we'll give it a go and hope for the best. I'm bummed it didn't arrive today - that means either tomorrow
or Tuesday.

Now I just have to figure out why he's got diarrhea again - although I gave him his usual dose of lysine (not 500mg) and bumped up the acidophilus/bifidus yesterday, and his stool is a little firmer today.
 

pami

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Laurie, when you are helping your kitty build his immune system like this, when it is with a sick animal, sometimes fighting the sickness, purging so to speak, he can seem like he is not getting better or even get sicker. If you cut back on what you are giving him, his body will continue to fight and then you can slowly increase it again.
It is something you will have to adjust the amount how you see he is responding. I hope he feels better soon.
 
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ldg

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That's exactly what I'm going to do with the lysine. When I started it, he already had bad diarrhea, and the "new" dose of it may actually have not helped. We didn't know he was FIV+ when we were first treating him for diarrhea. He actually exhibits (as most FIV cats) no symptoms of being ill (well, except now we know 10-20% of FIV+ kitties have chronic diarrhea). We treated it with immodium (at first) and the acidopholous, and the antibiotic I can't think of its name (doesn't kill the good bacteria in the gut), we managed to get his diarrhea under control pretty quickly (given what I'm learning on the Internet about this now).

...but also with all the research I've been doing, it seems that keeping his GI system healthy will help prevent a LOT of problems FIV+ kitties tend to get, including the gingivitis and related teeth-problems.

The question I haven't gotten answered yet is.... the cats drink the ffood grade hydrogen peroxide (H202) water (a very small amount of H202 added to distilled water, resulting in a .0006% solution). This is a powerful oxygenator and good especially for their teeth & gums - however, it's also good for the immune system. But I have no idea what H202 does to our internal flora - good or bad.

That said, he gets the same water, and we did get the diarrhea under control with the acidophilus/bifidus. I don't know what to think. I just wish we had a vet that was really familiar with nutrition/holistic health. I looked up the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association and there's a practice listed that's only about 1/2 hour from here. We may go consult with them before bringing Charlie over there - we'll see.
 

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Originally Posted by LDG

Given I spent a lot of money for the Feline version of TF, we'll give it a go and hope for the best. I'm bummed it didn't arrive today - that means either tomorrow
or Tuesday.
Oh Laurie, don't take me wrong, it is a great product too! No question about it - it is like picking the good, the better and the best.

It is just when you are trying to give a bunch of stuff together, the less volume, you have, less "contaminants" per se, and less money you spend, the better... Just for future reference... So you save $$$, the capsules will be far far easier (and cheaper) to administer. That's all... The human is more potent too. Anyways, the Feline is awesome, the classic is "awesomer"
 

pami

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Here is some interesting info on H2O2.

Thank you for posting about that, btw, I had never heard of the benefits.

http://www.educate-yourself.org/canc...e17jul03.shtml


If you are not already taking vitamin E and an acidophilus product, I recommend starting them before going on H202. Vitamin E can make more efficient use of any oxygen available and acidophilus will help re-establish the beneficial bacterial flora in the lower bowel and also help in the internal production of hydrogen peroxide.
Ironically, this was in the article, too.

Some individuals may experience upset stomach. If this occurs it is recommended that one not stop the program, but rather remain at the current dosage level or reduce it to the previous level until the problem stops. (Some patients have been able to solve the nausea problem by taking three or four lecithin capsules at the same time they take the H202.) During the program it's not uncommon to experience what is known as a healing crisis. As dead bacteria and toxins are released from your body it may temporarily exceed your capacity to eliminate them quickly enough. In some individuals this overload may cause fatigue, diarrhea, headaches, skin eruptions, cold or flu-like symptoms, and/or nausea. One should not discontinue using the peroxide to stop this cleansing. By continuing the program, toxins will clear the body sooner and this healing crisis will pass rather quickly
 

pami

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While we are discussing enemas and douches, there is another misconception about H202 I need to address. The friendly bacteria in the colon and vagina are aerobic. In other words, they flourish in high oxygen environments and thrive in the presence of oxygen rich H202.

On the other hand, most strains of harmful bacteria (and cancer cells) are anaerobic and cannot survive in the presence of oxygen or H202.
When lactobacillus in the colon or vaginal tract have been overrun with harmful viruses, yeast, or bacteria, an effective douche or enema solution can be made using 3 tablespoons of 3% H202 in 1 quart of distilled water. Keep in mind, however, that a good bacterial flora must always be re-established in theses areas to achieve lasting results.
http://curezone.com/art/read.asp?ID=73&db=5&C0=1

I know that is not directly answering because it is talking about humans and I don't know if reacts differently in other locations of the body. I would assume it wouldn't?
 
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ldg

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Pami, thank you for the excellent link(s)! Given the information in the article, it seems that basically the "good" bacteria thrive in the higher 02 environment, so the H202 wouldn't kill them. Seems so support their ability to do their job, actually. I don't think it's a function of whether human or animal. That was really helpful!

If you want to purchase pre-diluted food grade H202, this comes in gallons (or you can buy the eye droppers & amber glass and buy the 35% food grade somewhere to do the mixing yourself). Personally, I prefer buying the 3% pre-diluted food grade H202: scroll down for odering. http://www.dancingalgae.com/hydrogenperoxide.html

Note: What you do is add 1 1/2 TEASPOONS of this 3% food grade H202 to one gallon of distilled water - so the 1 gallon jug goes a long way.
 
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ldg

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Originally Posted by Carolina

Oh Laurie, don't take me wrong, it is a great product too! No question about it - it is like picking the good, the better and the best.

It is just when you are trying to give a bunch of stuff together, the less volume, you have, less "contaminants" per se, and less money you spend, the better... Just for future reference... So you save $$$, the capsules will be far far easier (and cheaper) to administer. That's all... The human is more potent too. Anyways, the Feline is awesome, the classic is "awesomer"
I'm still a little worried about the yeast because of his GI issues.

That said...
This is the one cat that we've encountered that will eat ANYTHING I put into his food, and so far has gobbled up pills of any size and type in a pill pocket.
 
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ldg

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TF arrived today!


I'm starting him small, and working up the dose. When I opened the can, he came running. I let him sniff it - and he started meowing up a storm (which he does for meals LOL). I think he would have eaten just the powder!
 

pami

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You guys are so lucky and so is he.... Im sure you know what its like to try and do this with with a finicky one.

I wonder if he knows you are helping to save his life, you never know.
 

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Originally Posted by Pami

You guys are so lucky and so is he.... Im sure you know what its like to try and do this with with a finicky one.

I wonder if he knows you are helping to save his life, you never know.
... I would say yes as I know my Dahlia knew when she was home...
 
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ldg

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I'm just lucky he seems to like everything, I think. He may or may not know we're helping him - I think he just really likes food!
I'm pretty sure he knows he's safe, and we want to help keep him be safe. He LOVES being inside and does NOT want back out.
I think his being so aggressive out there was just a defense mechanism, because as we're introducing him to our crew, he's really been quite docile (until Spooky got in his face and wanted to keep grooming him despite his first polite "no" request
).

Tuxedo, on the other hand, definitely knew we were trying to save his life - but he was still finicky.
Even now that he feels really well and is doing great - he does not complain at all about going to the vet - and before he got so sick he used to, and make a real stink about it there. (He'd given one vet and one vet tech stitches!!!) But he no longer hurts the vet or any of the vet techs, either. He's now always a good boy about letting them draw blood (knock wood).
 
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ldg

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I took his lysine back to a normal level on... Friday? Thursday? I don't remember. But I started him on a small amount of TF as soon as it arrived Saturday. I upped his acidophilus a little because he went back to having diarrhea (before the TF, but when I increased his lysine to 500mg without doing it slowly).

I'm up to 1/2 the recommended dose of TF as of last night, and I've been adding teeney amounts of extra lysine - and his poops are back to his normal (soft stools, but formed, and once a day).
I'll see how it goes today - not gonna increase the TF more until I know his poop is stable.
 
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