Need advice on L-lysine and/or Transfer Factor / probiotics

We need to boost a foster kitty's immune system. We've had him on L-lysine, as we do all the cats. However, he's fighting off an FIV infection. It is actually possible for this to happen if he's got a strong enough immune system and isn't stressed.

As soon as we found out his FIV test results were a "transient positive," I ordered 4Life Transfer Factor Feline Complete.

Charlie had a problem with diarrhea before - and 1/2 capsule of Acidophilus in the morning and evening wet meals took care of that (started with 1/4 capsule and worked our way up). Fortiflora (which I tried before the acidophilus) made it worse, because it was not antibiotic-induced diarrhea.

Here's the problem - with the Transfer Factor, I don't know if I should continue with the L-lysine and/or the probiotic. I know the Transfer Factor HAS probiotics in it - but I don't know what they are or if they're in sufficient quantity to keep the diarrhea problem at bay without the actual probiotic (acidophilus) supplement.... or if they're like Fortiflora, and they're going to make his problem with diarrhea worse again - in which case I guess I'd have to stop using the Transfer Factor.

Do I just keep giving him the L-lysine and acidophilus and add Transfer Factor? Do I scale back the amount of probiotic (acidophilus) I'm giving him when I start Transfer Factor but not stop it? Do I replace the L-lysine with the Transfer Factor?

The vet wasn't of much help here, not being familiar with 4Life Transfer Factor.

Any thoughts would be so helpful!!!!!

OK - I finally found the list of ingredients in Transfer Factor. This is the specific l-lysine and probiotic part:

AMINO ACIDS
l-Lysine (monohydrochloride) 7 mg
d, l-Methionine 9 mg
l-Arginine 400 mcg

PROBIOTICS
Lactic acid bacteria 54 million CFU
Yeast (Saacharomyces cerevisiae) 27 million CFU

The probiotic part of FortiFlora is "Microorganisms (Min) (Enterococcus faecium)," so it looks like Transfer Factor shouldn't cause the same kind of problem that FortiFlora did with the diarrhea.

...but I still don't know if I should keep using the acidophilus, because I have no idea how it compares to the probiotics (lactic acid and yeast) in Transfer Factor.

I know the L-lysine amount in Transfer Factor is amazingly low - we use 250mg per day, so it seems we ought to just continue with that.

So... any thoughts on the probiotic part?

Again - thank you!

He weighs just a little over 10 pounds and is at a good weight for his size.

Carolina, I didn't order Transfer Factor classic or Plus - I ordered Transfer Factor Feline Complete: http://www.discovertransferfactor.co...e_Complete.pdf

OK - I was just doing some re-looking around, and apparently there is a Transfer Factor Feline Plus, and that's not what I ordered, so good.

As to the probiotic I'm using - I'm just using straight acidophilus; the vet recommended we try that, and the lady who owns the health food store recommended the specific brand - told her what it was for, and she was already familiar with its use in pets.

The recommended human dose (don't have bottle here, so don't know how much is in one pill) of acidophilus is 1-3 pills daily; I started Charlie at 1/4 pill, and worked up to 1/3 - 1/2 (I just eyeball it) of a pill twice a day. I just open the capsule and sprinkle it on his wet food, and he just eats it - same as the L-lysine. I just mix that into the wet food once a day, though with Charlie, I'll probably boost his amount to 500 mg/day.

Human dose of Lactic Acid Bateria (thank you Sharky!) is (3.0 × 10 to the 11th CFU/g) in one published study. The ingredients list on the TF is per 2g serving, so the LAB dose per serving at 54 million CFU that is 27 million CFU per gram - which is 2.7 x 10 to the 6th - MINISCULE in comparison to a human dose. I mean - these amounts are starting to look more like the principles of homeopathy rather than therapeutic doses - and I'm OK with that at this point LOL.

The yeast - have to put more work into that, but given the amounts of L-lysine and LAB, I'm gonna have to guess that again, this is a very small amount compared to something sold for people, so it may not interfere or be a problem.

It seems like I should just add the Transfer Factor to the mix - maybe start at 1/2 the dose and work up to the full dose - and adjust his acidophilus consumption based on how his gut reacts to the new ingredients (if at all).

...and I'd better start getting him used to having his teeth brushed. We already add food grade hydrogen peroxide to the water (there is an "add this to the water for your pet's teeth health" product that costs a LOT of money - the vet told us it's basically just hydrogen peroxide. We add a full rounded 1/4 teaspoon of 3% food grade Hydrogen Peroxide to 2 C of distilled water. (This is also an immune system booster in addition to promoting healthy teeth and gums: http://www.dancingalgae.com/hydrogenperoxide.html).

Thank you all for your input!

I found an EXCELLENT article on the issue of FIV+ cats and diarrhea:

http://www.fivtherapy.com/chronic_diarrhea.htm

It specifically says:

"Probiotics and/or Prebiotics [7]( protection of intestinal epithelial cell and barrier function, prevention of enterotoxin binding to intestinal epithelial cells, and regulation of intestinal microbial environment. If antibiotics are the suspected cause, may be started immediately.) Sacchromyces boulardii, a probiotic yeast, has specific inhibitory activity against clostridium."

Now, the bummer is that the yeast in the Transfer Factor is not the probiotic yeast discussed here. But I'm still working on it....

I've found loads of articles referring to Acidophilus being a good probiotic for cats. It refers to something that helps promote higher lactic acid and higher bifidobacteria (being a good thing) - and the Transfer Factor does include the Lactic Acid (another pet article about probiotics said to be sure that any ingredient in a probiotic be at least 20 million CFU, and per gram, the Transfer Factor is 27 million CFU, but daily dose is 54 million CFU) - and the acidophilus I'm giving him includes the Bifidus.

However, since I bumped his lysine to 500mg, he's gotten diarrhea again! I'm going to take him back to the 250mg. Don't know if it was a coincidence or what - but nothing else changed, excpet his visits over here - perhaps the diarrhea is a delayed stress reaction? (Funny it started the day after we DIDN'T bring him over there though.... ???? ).

I'll take a look, Carolina, thank you!

Thanks for those links, Carolina.

I found out the yeast in the Feline Transfer Factor is Brewer's Yeast. Here is an excellent article on its benefits (in humans): http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/463265

"Brewer's yeast, also known as baker's yeast, Faex medicinalis, levure de bière, and medicinal yeast, is included in a class of probiotics or biotherapeutic agents defined as "live microbial supplements," which beneficially affect a host by improving its natural microbial balance. Brewer's yeast is produced as a byproduct of beer-brewing, using an extract of grains and hops. Other agents in the probiotic class include lactobacilli (found in some natural "live" yogurts) and lactic-acid-producing enterococci. Scientific names for yeast include Saccharomyces boulardii and S cerevisiae (family: Saccharomycetaceae).

Brewer's yeast is available as a supplement in a number of commercial preparations. It is increasingly being included in fermented milks and food products and can also be designated a "nutraceutical." Dosage varies from 1 gram per day to 6 grams daily (orally), depending on indications for use.[1] For example, the typical dose for preventing diarrhea is 250-500 mg 2-4 times a day. The dose for treatment of recurrent diarrhea is 1 gram daily for 4 weeks. In Crohn's disease, the recommended dose can be as high as 250 mg 3 times a day for 9 weeks.

The most common use for Brewer's yeast has been for antibiotic-associated diarrhea (AAD), traveler's diarrhea, rotavirus diarrhea in children, infectious diarrhea such as amebiasis, and general digestive problems including irritable bowel syndrome, lactose intolerance, relapsing Clostridium difficile colitis, and bacterial overgrowth in short bowel syndrome.[1] Evidence for possible effectiveness in diarrhea is more robust for AAD and prevention of relapse of C difficile colitis when used with pharmacologic agents (metronidazole or vancomycin) than for other gastrointestinal indications. Fewer data are available for its other uses, including vaginal Candida albicans yeast infections, high cholesterol levels, premenstrual syndrome, furunculosis, and adolescent acne. It is considered "likely ineffective" for gastrointestinal colonization by C albicans in patients with cystic fibrosis.

The mechanism of action of S boulardii and S cerevisiae is believed to be mediated by increased activity of intestinal disaccharidases, saccharidases, maltase, and lactase to reduce diarrhea. S boulardii typically reaches a maximum steady state within 3 days when taken orally and does not multiply in the gut. Less than 1% is recovered from the stools. In C difficile diarrhea, S boulardii may act by producing proteases that reduce the toxicity of toxins A and B.

The argument for using probiotics for treating AAD and other forms of diarrhea rests on cost-effectiveness and lack of or fewer side effects, compared with other alternative pharmacologic treatments."

Given I spent a lot of money for the Feline version of TF, we'll give it a go and hope for the best. I'm bummed it didn't arrive today - that means either tomorrow or Tuesday.

Now I just have to figure out why he's got diarrhea again - although I gave him his usual dose of lysine (not 500mg) and bumped up the acidophilus/bifidus yesterday, and his stool is a little firmer today.

That's exactly what I'm going to do with the lysine. When I started it, he already had bad diarrhea, and the "new" dose of it may actually have not helped. We didn't know he was FIV+ when we were first treating him for diarrhea. He actually exhibits (as most FIV cats) no symptoms of being ill (well, except now we know 10-20% of FIV+ kitties have chronic diarrhea). We treated it with immodium (at first) and the acidopholous, and the antibiotic I can't think of its name (doesn't kill the good bacteria in the gut), we managed to get his diarrhea under control pretty quickly (given what I'm learning on the Internet about this now).

...but also with all the research I've been doing, it seems that keeping his GI system healthy will help prevent a LOT of problems FIV+ kitties tend to get, including the gingivitis and related teeth-problems.

The question I haven't gotten answered yet is.... the cats drink the ffood grade hydrogen peroxide (H202) water (a very small amount of H202 added to distilled water, resulting in a .0006% solution). This is a powerful oxygenator and good especially for their teeth & gums - however, it's also good for the immune system. But I have no idea what H202 does to our internal flora - good or bad.

That said, he gets the same water, and we did get the diarrhea under control with the acidophilus/bifidus. I don't know what to think. I just wish we had a vet that was really familiar with nutrition/holistic health. I looked up the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association and there's a practice listed that's only about 1/2 hour from here. We may go consult with them before bringing Charlie over there - we'll see.

Pami, thank you for the excellent link(s)! Given the information in the article, it seems that basically the "good" bacteria thrive in the higher 02 environment, so the H202 wouldn't kill them. Seems so support their ability to do their job, actually. I don't think it's a function of whether human or animal. That was really helpful!

If you want to purchase pre-diluted food grade H202, this comes in gallons (or you can buy the eye droppers & amber glass and buy the 35% food grade somewhere to do the mixing yourself). Personally, I prefer buying the 3% pre-diluted food grade H202: scroll down for odering. http://www.dancingalgae.com/hydrogenperoxide.html

Note: What you do is add 1 1/2 TEASPOONS of this 3% food grade H202 to one gallon of distilled water - so the 1 gallon jug goes a long way.

I'm still a little worried about the yeast because of his GI issues.

That said... This is the one cat that we've encountered that will eat ANYTHING I put into his food, and so far has gobbled up pills of any size and type in a pill pocket.