Mandarin's Herpes - Suggestions on Management?

Yeah well Mandarin doesn't eat wet food. Can't get him to eat any of it and not barf. Tried it in clam juice, tuna, shrimp juice, and a whole slew of other stuff to no avail. He is one finicky baby.

And I would think Mandarin would like it if it had a salty taste. He loves saltines and pringles.

Rar.

Originally Posted by Python

LOL. It's quite amusing - a cat who actually likes medication.

The vet prescribed Metacalm (anti-inflammatory) to get rid of Uveitis (sp) in her eye - linked to the horrible eye ulcer she's got so she's only on it for a very limited time. Today will be the last dose she gets.

It has worked very well as her eye, which had turned cloudy, is clear now. Just the ulcer to get healed. The vet gave her ointment for her eye which yesterday and today, we have to put in every 2 hours, reducing tomorrow to 4 times daily and hope when she sees the vet on Friday that the ulcer has healed or showing signs of healing, otherwise she will be kept in for surgery where they will stitch her inner eyelid which will act like a Band-Aid and allow the ulcer to heal.

If that doesn't work...well...I'm trying not to think of that.

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MetaCalm is a supplement that "Encourages relaxation of the central and peripheral nervous systems.â€:censor:" (taken from the website). It contains various vitamin and minerals.

Metacam is an anti inflammatory pain medication that is very dangerous used in cats as it can cause Acute Kidney Failure. It should never be dispensed to a cat without blood work being done to check kidney function.

Are you looking at the label? How is the medicine dispensed? You might want to find out for sure exactly what Poppy is getting. I won't allow metacam to be used in my cats.

Originally Posted by LadyHitchhiker

Yeah well Mandarin doesn't eat wet food. Can't get him to eat any of it and not barf. Tried it in clam juice, tuna, shrimp juice, and a whole slew of other stuff to no avail. He is one finicky baby.

And I would think Mandarin would like it if it had a salty taste. He loves saltines and pringles.

Rar.

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Well there's no telling what is in the paste to make it "palatable" The pure powder is really acceptable to most cats, you can even put it in his water. I know somebody who does that too, adds the l-lysine to the water every day.

When I have to give Mazy cat the l-lysine (like when I had the H1N1 to boost her immune system since cats can catch it) I just added a drop of water to her dry food so the sprinkles would stick, and sprinkled it over her dry food. She ate it right up.

Talked to my husband this morning already and he was super-concerned about WHEN we can get Mandarin his shots or if he'll be stuck on not being on them forever. I told him this is something we need to talk over with the vet. I mean he didn't go to veterinary college for nothing, right? Gotta trust his opinion. Else that means going to the Iron Mountain Animal Hospital and their priorities are whackadoo so I'm really not into that. I know Dr. Paul at my vet's office tries really hard and means well and has the best bedside manner ever, so I trust him first.

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Actually, when it comes to shots, most vets just tell you to come in and have the shots given yearly, they don't really listen to you, your concerns about your cat, and they act like you're retarded if you even mention not getting your animal vaccinated. My former vet's office staff treated me like a leper because I did the research and decided no vacs for my herpes girl. They really didn't like the fact that I was educated, could read for myself, and make my own decisions regarding the health (& life) of my cat. That was one reason I started looking for a new vet who wasn't into the "pump 'em full of chemicals yearly" thing and actually took the owner's wishes and the health of the cat into consideration.

I never did figure out if your guy eats dry exclusively or if you also feed him canned? I might have over looked it in all my reading, though. Let us know how the vet visit goes.

Originally Posted by otto

MetaCalm is a supplement that "Encourages relaxation of the central and peripheral nervous systems.â€:censor:" (taken from the website). It contains various vitamin and minerals.

Metacam is an anti inflammatory pain medication that is very dangerous used in cats as it can cause Acute Kidney Failure. It should never be dispensed to a cat without blood work being done to check kidney function.

Are you looking at the label? How is the medicine dispensed? You might want to find out for sure exactly what Poppy is getting. I won't allow metacam to be used in my cats.

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I spelt it wrong. It is Metacam (Meloxicam). You can only get it from the vet.

Dispensing of drugs, both human and animal is completely different here in the UK to what it is in America. For example, Neosporin (sp). I see everyone here mention it a lot, that it can probably be bought over the counter. Here, we would have to get that on prescription.

Another thing here, vets won't prescribe any medication without seeing the animal concerned, unless it is a repeat prescription for some long-standing complaint. Even flea and worm treatments such as Frontline Plus, Advocate (also known as Advantage Multi) are prescription only drugs. Normal Frontline you can buy at Pets at Home (Petsmart) - but only after you've answered 101 questions.

It's not the first time my pets have used Metacam and I've always found it to be good and none of mine have suffered any side-effects.

Poppy is only on a very small doseage of it. It's a tiny bottle. I had to laugh as the box it comes in is quite big, so you expect there to be a large bottle inside. Instead you get the instruction/contraindiction sheet, a syringe and this tiny, little bottle. The cap is bigger than the bottle!!!

Apart from the eye problem, which we are still not sure what caused it, Poppy's otherwise perfectly healthy. If she had been poorly, I would probably have been more concerned but we do have a good vet who tends not to take any chances.

^As long as you are very aware of the risks of that medication and make sure to only ever use it sparingly. UK and US makes no difference in the side effects that medication carries.
I have used it in a couple of mine, but only the barest minimal dose that I had to.

I wonder if they mix it differently over there, though? (other ingredients in the bottle) Mine hate the taste of metacam.

Originally Posted by stephanietx

Actually, when it comes to shots, most vets just tell you to come in and have the shots given yearly, they don't really listen to you, your concerns about your cat, and they act like you're retarded if you even mention not getting your animal vaccinated. My former vet's office staff treated me like a leper because I did the research and decided no vacs for my herpes girl.

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That's sort of the general reaction you get from anyone who's in a position like a vet is. Lots of doctors do this, too. I think they get used to people blindly accepting every word they say and it inflates their egos a bit. Then we come along, ask informed questions and make our own decisions and they're only comeback is to then treat us like we're stupid.
I hate that attitude out of the vet techs more, though. I've had techs try to argue for me to get FeLv vacs done, my vet just asked "are you sure? Ok" and went about it - he had better things to do.

BTW, I think the kitty only eats dry Purina Naturals if I read that post correctly.

Originally Posted by Python

Another thing here, vets won't prescribe any medication without seeing the animal concerned, unless it is a repeat prescription for some long-standing complaint. Even flea and worm treatments such as Frontline Plus, Advocate (also known as Advantage Multi) are prescription only drugs.

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That is normal here in the US as well, or at least where I live. The only way you can get refills is by bringing your pet in. The only exception I know of is with heartworm or flea/tick meds, if you have bought it from your vet regularly they may give you a refill if they have it on file that you have bought it an amount that would be equal with using it every month (unless it's been a year for the heartworm meds, then you have to bring them in to be tested before they will refill it.)

Originally Posted by strange_wings

Originally Posted by stephanietx

Actually, when it comes to shots, most vets just tell you to come in and have the shots given yearly, they don't really listen to you, your concerns about your cat, and they act like you're retarded if you even mention not getting your animal vaccinated. My former vet's office staff treated me like a leper because I did the research and decided no vacs for my herpes girl. They really didn't like the fact that I was educated, could read for myself, and make my own decisions regarding the health (& life) of my cat.

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That's sort of the general reaction you get from anyone who's in a position like a vet is. Lots of doctors do this, too. I think they get used to people blindly accepting every word they say and it inflates their egos a bit. Then we come along, ask informed questions and make our own decisions and they're only comeback is to then treat us like we're stupid.

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I've had a different experience with most of the vets I've gone too (some exceptions). The majority of them have been very willing to answer my questions and not "talk down" to me when they saw that I was knowledgeable and wanted as much info as possible before I decided on something. They were also willing to answer all my questions about a condition/treatment and discuss with me if I had researched it already.
This is why I love my current vet especially and followed her from another clinic. Not only is she very willing to explain and answer questions, but she will also give me options in the treatment of my pets and explain the pros and cons of the different choices. Also while she is a 'traditional' vet she does use holistic treatments too so she will suggest holistic options as well as traditional ones. If she finds a health problem or a treatment I haven't heard of, she will print out info on it from the computer for me to read about it. She also believes in a natural diet for pets and minimal vaccines. She's the one who recommended I stop giving my senior cat vaccinations (except rabies as it's required by law) and she even orders raw food for me for my dog (she has a distributor she orders from.)

That's the biggest reason we are now going to different vet. Our new vet actually listens to us and respects the research we've done. She actually made a comment to us that she thinks we're giving our animals too many chemicals and overmedicating them. The only shot she gave my older girl was the panleukopenia (feline distemper). We had a very lengthy discussion about vaccines, flea meds, dentals, and bloodwork.

I second the Vetri-Plus treats. Our Sammy loves them. His holistic vet recommended them. He stopped taking the powder form in wet food, so we switched to these treats.
Marina

How did the vet visit go?

Originally Posted by stephanietx

Actually, when it comes to shots, most vets just tell you to come in and have the shots given yearly, they don't really listen to you, your concerns about your cat, and they act like you're retarded if you even mention not getting your animal vaccinated. My former vet's office staff treated me like a leper because I did the research and decided no vacs for my herpes girl. They really didn't like the fact that I was educated, could read for myself, and make my own decisions regarding the health (& life) of my cat. That was one reason I started looking for a new vet who wasn't into the "pump 'em full of chemicals yearly" thing and actually took the owner's wishes and the health of the cat into consideration.

I never did figure out if your guy eats dry exclusively or if you also feed him canned? I might have over looked it in all my reading, though. Let us know how the vet visit goes.

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I disagree with this kind of generalization, and, with all respect, it really bugs me when people say "most vets" will or won't this or that, always a negative thing. Each vet should be taken on an individual basis. Vet bashing in a general way like this is just wrong.

In my opinion you'll get from a vet what you put into it. If you go educated and ready to ask questions, if the vet won't answer them, go some where else. Vets are not god or mind readers. They are human beings, who each have their own way of approaching their business.

Originally Posted by Python

I spelt it wrong. It is Metacam (Meloxicam). You can only get it from the vet.

Dispensing of drugs, both human and animal is completely different here in the UK to what it is in America. For example, Neosporin (sp). I see everyone here mention it a lot, that it can probably be bought over the counter. Here, we would have to get that on prescription.

Another thing here, vets won't prescribe any medication without seeing the animal concerned, unless it is a repeat prescription for some long-standing complaint. Even flea and worm treatments such as Frontline Plus, Advocate (also known as Advantage Multi) are prescription only drugs. Normal Frontline you can buy at Pets at Home (Petsmart) - but only after you've answered 101 questions.

It's not the first time my pets have used Metacam and I've always found it to be good and none of mine have suffered any side-effects.

Poppy is only on a very small doseage of it. It's a tiny bottle. I had to laugh as the box it comes in is quite big, so you expect there to be a large bottle inside. Instead you get the instruction/contraindiction sheet, a syringe and this tiny, little bottle. The cap is bigger than the bottle!!!

Apart from the eye problem, which we are still not sure what caused it, Poppy's otherwise perfectly healthy. If she had been poorly, I would probably have been more concerned but we do have a good vet who tends not to take any chances.

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Ahh I know metacam is approved for use in cats in the UK. I think vets are way way too liberal with it. It will not be used in a cat of mine ever, unless it is a nothing to lose, last resort situation, and if it came to that, well, that's what the final kindness is all about.

Originally Posted by LadyHitchhiker

Awwww Python I hope everything works out well. Talked to my husband this morning already and he was super-concerned about WHEN we can get Mandarin his shots or if he'll be stuck on not being on them forever. I told him this is something we need to talk over with the vet. I mean he didn't go to veterinary college for nothing, right? Gotta trust his opinion. Else that means going to the Iron Mountain Animal Hospital and their priorities are whackadoo so I'm really not into that. I know Dr. Paul at my vet's office tries really hard and means well and has the best bedside manner ever, so I trust him first.

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That's it. Either you trust your vet or you don't. You educate yourself, go in with your questions, and talk it over with the vet. If they vet says, wait on the vaccines, until the outbreak clears up, then okay.

Bottom line is, you've got to find a way to get the l-lysine in him every day, every day.

Tolly has a very bad herpes, which is controlled with l-lysine. He almost lost his eyes, in the beginning. He hasn't had an outbreak is several years now. He does not eat grain free food, as he does very poorly on on a grain free diet He eats foods that contain rice, mostly, with occasional corn from Mazy's c/d.

Keep us posted on the vet visit.

So I went to the vet's office yesterday. Sorry couldn't post yesterday but my hard drive crashed on my computer. I'm writing from my mom's house and will have new hard drive from a friend tonight.

The vet had the shots all ready and I told him, "do you think it's a good idea to give him his vaccinations? He's been having really bad flare-ups the last few months". He did a really extensive look at both of Mandarin's eyes, and decided that it was a good idea to give him his vaccinations. So I trusted him. He gave me a prescription for the neopolydex but he told me, "we're not really sure exactly how herpes works, and there's a chance that there is something else going on inside his eyes that isn't herpes, but another disorder" some really long word I wish I had him write down "but that would cause crustiness in the eyes that would be fairly obvious." He also said the neopolydex is something that he would try one more time, and if it cleared up the eyes, then perhaps it's the right treatment for him, but he warned me that there have been some studies that show that steroids can make it worse because it can start the virus replicating. He gave me some l-lysine treats to try and I have some powder on order since they're out of it. He told me that usually there aren't long-standing problems directly from the herpes, and I shouldn't worry so much about eye damage unless he digs at his eye - which he doesn't - that it's just uncomfortable. When he did look at Mandarin's eyes Mandarin stayed still the whole time. He was SUCH a good baby. I am so proud of him. But the vet was a little confused, "so you mean that it's been worse than THIS?" he asked me. I said yes, and there were numerous times when I was just about to make an appointment and then he cleared up. I guess he thought that his eye was the worst it could get. He explained that some cats don't respond well to any sort of treatment, like his mother's cat, who has them almost chronically, and he treats her cat. I'm sure he would suggest just about any good treatment for her.

I have not administered the neopolydex yet. I like to wait until he has some sort of green stuff and THEN give it to him. I don't like the idea of him being on some meds all the time. But we'll wait and see how he does, since I'm going to be getting the l-lysine for him going.

He said if the graw were to show for a time and I could get him in to snip a portion of it, we could test that portion and have a better idea of exactly how to treat him, but otherwise it's kind of experimental on what will work and what won't work with him. I mean part of me wanted for him to say, "Well this is exactly what you need to do" whatever that may be, and then part of me was very grateful because he was completely honest with me, as to the fact that there just isn't enough concrete evidence in the medical research so far to see what exactly works - besides immune boosting stuff - to help reduce flare-ups.

He also agreed that trying to force him some sort of medicine should be our last resort. We should first try some powder or some other form - like the treats - with the l-lysine before I start forcing it into his mouth.

Will write later if I remember more.

What do you guys think?

Originally Posted by otto

Ahh I know metacam is approved for use in cats in the UK. I think vets are way way too liberal with it. It will not be used in a cat of mine ever, unless it is a nothing to lose, last resort situation, and if it came to that, well, that's what the final kindness is all about.

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It is the first time I've had Metacam prescribed for any of my cats. It did it's job and got rid of the inflammation in Poppy's eye. The dose she was on was very small.

It seems to be used more with dogs and worked very well when Max, my GSD had a very large haematoma following his neutering op. It took the swelling right down within 2 days.

Poppy has to go to the vets tomorrow morning and a decision will be made whether to go for 3rd eyelid flap surgery or to continue with the ointment she has got. I have a feeling the vet is going to advise surgery and, to be honest, I think that is going to be the best treatment.

In the meantime, Poppy is enjoying all the extra fussing she's getting and being spoiled rotten.

Remind me again what the problem is with the eye, because I've forgotten.

Have you had him tested for Herpes? There's a test from IDEXX called the Feline PCR URD panel that will accurately test for herpes as well as several other upper respiratory diseases.

I would not give him anything with a steroid in it and I'd change him to a grain-free diet. If I'm not mistaken, there is a neopolydex that comes without the steroid in it. Depending on what the eye issue is, I might be able to get some other info for drops to try.

Have you joined the Yahoo group yet for FHV owners?

Hello LadyHitchhiker!

I read your post with interest as I have a similar situation and maybe what I've learned will help you manage the herpes virus in your furbabies. I have 8 cats, and my only boy, Louie has the virus. He flares up pretty often, so we always have Interferon on hand to drop in his eyes when he gets sneezy and his eyes goop up. Normally, this takes care of it and everyone else is fine. I put 250mg of L-Lysine I bought from the vitamin store (caplets I open and sprinkle the powder in their wet food at night). I understand it's kinda salty tasting and one of my cats hates wet food so she doesn't get any L-Lysine.

Back in March, my oldest (5yrs) girl Wee developed a flareup in her right eye. She normally doesn't get flareups, but I treated it like Louie's - Interferon in her eye and we also had an ointment that I can't remember the name of (starts with an N). I figured it would clear up in a week or two.

Nope. Wee has proved to be very stubborn. After 2 weeks, I talked to the vet and they prescribed Betadine drops. They didn't work either. Her eye was puffy, her 3rd eyelid red and opened about 1/2 way all the time, and a LOT of goop in her eye. It never transfered to the left eye.

After MONTHS of trying to treat this and it not going away (sometimes it would look so bad I was afraid she'd lose her eye) my vet consulted with an ophthalmologist who recommended 1. an eydrop that was "3 steps down in strength" from Interferon and cost $125, 2. 200 mg of Acylovir 4 times a day. This was a capsule I couldn't open and Wee will NOT be pilled. Period. It's also such a heavy duty med that I'd have to take her in for a CBC panel 7 days after she started taking the med.

I didn't like either of those options, so I took her to an ophthalmologist. After this long post - here's what I learned.

The L-Lysine you buy at the drug/vitamin store is mostly a filler powder. Cats get VERY little of the amino acid if you give them this kind. He strongly recommended the L-Lysine for cats in powder or paste form. I found this on Amazon, or you can order it from your vet:

http://www.amazon.com/Vet-Solutions-...7471202&sr=8-2

It comes in powder, chews, paste and a pump dispensed form and is supposed to be very palatable for cats. You can sprinkle it in their food or water.

In the exam, he had to numb Wee's eye and scrape some sort of sample off her eye (I couldn't watch) and test it. She has a severe herpes infection, and it's gotten so bad that there is an additional infection in the tissue. She has "self mutilated" her eye to the point that she has to wear a cone 24/7 for a MINIMUM of two weeks, until her follow up appointment. She is now on a stronger dose of Interferon 4 times a day, Zithromax and another med in a liquid suspension that smells like bananas and tastes awful that I have to squirt in her mouth once a day. The vet said the most important thing is the collar can NOT come off, no exceptions, or she'll develop ulcers on her eye from digging at it and could possibly cause permanent damage or lose the eye.

Talk about stressful! The doc said not to expect this infection to clear up in 2 weeks, it will take a lot longer. Wee is used to the collar but she can't bathe herself and it annoys her. He also said her eye is very painful.

Trust me, that visit (and the ones to come) were far more stressful on Wee than cornering her and medicating her every day. Cats will get used to that. Please talk to your vet about the stronger forms of L-Lysine, and keep a close eye on Mandarin's condition. I hate the idea of any cat going through what poor Wee is experiencing now. I hope her infection clears up soon and she can get that blasted collar off.

Good luck to you. My paws are crossed that you will find success in getting your cats to take the L-Lysine!

Originally Posted by stephanietx

Remind me again what the problem is with the eye, because I've forgotten.

Have you had him tested for Herpes? There's a test from IDEXX called the Feline PCR URD panel that will accurately test for herpes as well as several other upper respiratory diseases.

I would not give him anything with a steroid in it and I'd change him to a grain-free diet. If I'm not mistaken, there is a neopolydex that comes without the steroid in it. Depending on what the eye issue is, I might be able to get some other info for drops to try.

Have you joined the Yahoo group yet for FHV owners?

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Yay! Hard drive is replaced on my computer so I can start really trying to do more research for Mandarin! Yayyyy! What would we do without the internet? I don't really know.

Are their ANY dry foods out there that are grain free? My purina naturals claims to be made out of very little grain, and more forms of other plant life to fill it in. Seeing as I can't give him wet food, I am looking for the best alternative to him. I know the Iams he was on before is not the answer. Their fur is so much more glossy on the purina naturals it's unreal. It makes them poop a lot more, but I figure a regular bowel movement is worth the cost of litter as opposed to more expensive doctor's visits later on. I'm just really trying to keep them healthy!

I have joined the herpes yahoo thing but haven't interacted yet. Hopefully soon!

To answer your question, the vet feels unless there are certain perameters - his inner eyelid showing - that he can't test the cat because it will be inconclusive so he is operating under the assumption that Mandarin has herpes and is thus treating him symptomatically. Is the neopolydex drop-form a non-steroid treatment? We still have not started treating him on that yet. His eye seems to be a lot better today, but he's still winking it. I don't know if perhaps when the vet was digging around in his eyeball if that knocked something loose or it just felt to be dug around in. Mandarin's a weird one anyways.

8whiskers: I have not heard of interferon. What is that? Do you need a prescription for it?

Just want to do everything for him that I can to make him feel better. I wouldn't want to feel the way I'm sure he's feeling. He is still very playful and very smoochy, but still very winky. Poor baby.

LadyHitchhiker: Yes, you need to get this from a vet. It's not very expensive. It's a clear liquid drop that's kept in the refrigerator, I kind of think of it as Visine for cats. ;-) The vets usually store it in the freezer, so you'll have to thaw it out, but it works great on Louie's flareups. The best way I've found to get it in their eyes is to scruff them, tilt their head so their nose is pointing straight at the ceiling, and put the ball of your hand holding the Interferon up against their chin. It's best if their eye is closed, then put a drop of Interferon on the inner corner of their eye (if they don't move it will balance long enough for you to put the bottle down) and then physically open their eye for them.

Ask your vet about it. Around here (Colorado) it seems to be the go-to medication for FHV.

Good luck!

For some reason, he handles eye drops with ease. Any other kind of medicine is a nightmare. So Interferon would be a great idea!

Just gave Mandarin the treats and he LOVED them. Yaaaaaaaaaaay! So I was wondering if we buy a bag of treats, how many servings is it? vet doesn't usually carry them - they were samples he gave us - but he could get them.