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Why, oh, why is the Jones Act not being waived? - Page 2

post #31 of 47
6/17/10 at 10:56pm
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Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
As I recall, Bush and FEMA were beaten soundly about the head and every other part about how the Katrina/New Orleans disaster was handled.
Concerning the rescues and delivery of aid to victims, yes. The part about denying aid from other countries; well, not so much. People didn't even find out about how much was turned down till weeks later.

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I don't think there is a person here that would say that there were no mistakes made and no room for improvement. There was, certainly. And there's that old saying that those who do not learn from past are doomed to repeat it. Although Obama seems quite content quoting all the ways that Bush has messed up, his actions say that he wasn't really paying much attention to the mistakes that were made and learning how to improve the process if/when another crisis happens on his watch.
That's exactly the point I wanted to make. Obama is doing one truly bang-up lousy job. But, he not doing much lousier than anyone else. Our presidents just seem to have a low learning potential.

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However, for the sake of future legalities nothing is done by a President who campaigned as being more concerned for the environment than any other in history. Mike, that's the only explanation I've heard for why the Obama Administration is dragging its heels with this whole thing - and that includes any explanation from the Administration! That's just pathetic, IMO.

Obama's words seem to indicate that he is more interested in making sure BP pays with blood and tears as well as dollars than he is in making sure that it is cleaned and that people who are losing their livelihoods are able to work again.
Actually, I'm still trying to figure out what it is that he's supposed to be doing. OPEC is decreasing production because there isn't anywhere left to store oil. Everything is full. Ok, so we bring in some skimmer ships, load them up...and then what? Dump it somewhere else?

You know, something has occurred to me. The oil is flowing from that well at a near steady rate. It took over 40 days for it to make it to shore. That means, that if they were to manage to cap that well tonight, right now, oil would continue to arrive for about 40 more days. According to the Coast Guard, huge amounts of it are suspended below the surface, where skimmer ships, booms and surface absorbents can't reach it. The "experienced people" he's supposed to surround himself with has no idea how to handle this. So what's he supposed to do?
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post #32 of 47
6/18/10 at 4:33am
Do you mean experienced like Janet Napolitano. She was so experienced she hid.
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post #33 of 47
6/18/10 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
Do you mean experienced like Janet Napolitano. She was so experienced she hid.
I had no idea she had ever worked in the oil industry. Dick Cheney has been running his head about everything that comes to mind, AND, he's a big oil man. Wonder where he is right about now?
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post #34 of 47
6/18/10 at 9:17am
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Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
No, I'm saying that if a mistake isn't condemned as a mistake, then it's going to be repeated. If it was wrong the first time, then the one doing it the first time should have been beaten over the head with it.
Everything Bush DID was condemned as a "mistake" so much so, the novelty wore off after a while. So is that really the reason and excuse you are giving for THIS? Tad farfetched.

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You know, something has occurred to me. The oil is flowing from that well at a near steady rate. It took over 40 days for it to make it to shore. That means, that if they were to manage to cap that well tonight, right now, oil would continue to arrive for about 40 more days. According to the Coast Guard, huge amounts of it are suspended below the surface, where skimmer ships, booms and surface absorbents can't reach it. The "experienced people" he's supposed to surround himself with has no idea how to handle this. So what's he supposed to do?
He, Biden and Pelosi could always quit and let Hillary take over, I could live with that.
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post #35 of 47
6/18/10 at 9:39am
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Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Everything Bush DID was condemned as a "mistake" so much so, the novelty wore off after a while. So is that really the reason and excuse you are giving for THIS? Tad farfetched.
What excuse? I've already given my opinion on how it's being handled. It's up there, between the quotes.
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He, Biden and Pelosi could always quit and let Hillary take over, I could live with that.
What does she know about plugging deep sea oil wells?
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post #36 of 47
6/18/10 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
I had no idea she had ever worked in the oil industry. Dick Cheney has been running his head about everything that comes to mind, AND, he's a big oil man. Wonder where he is right about now?
I did not realize there is a rule that Vice President Cheney must comment on every misstep of Barack's.

I think he limits himself to National Security with regards to terrorism and such.

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What does she know about plugging deep sea oil wells?
She doesn't have to know a darn thing about, "plugging deep sea oil wells." And Barack doesn't either as you well know.
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post #37 of 47
6/18/10 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I did not realize there is a rule that Vice President Cheney must comment on every misstep of Barack's.

I think he limits himself to National Security with regards to terrorism and such.

So, you're saying that his "participation" is purely political. In a situation where he could actually help, him being an oil man, he is willing to sacrifice the Gulf and all it's life just so his party can rack up a few points. That's so pathetic.

She doesn't have to know a darn thing about, "plugging deep sea oil wells." And Barack doesn't either as you well know.
They why would her taking charge change anything? Every politician, ex and otherwise, that is heavily into the oil industry is being quiet...obviously having no idea what to do...so why should we expect anyone else too?
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post #38 of 47
6/18/10 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
They why would her taking charge change anything? Every politician, ex and otherwise, that is heavily into the oil industry is being quiet...obviously having no idea what to do...so why should we expect anyone else too?
Oh, I'm sure you are right, I'm sure that is it. Right about Cheney too.

The job of a President is to find the people who can help him, the RIGHT people. He has had hundreds of OFFERS, maybe Barack needs to ask the right people. If Vice President Cheney is the right person, perhaps Barack should ask him. Perhaps Barack should ask President Bush.

I love it, so now it is Cheney's fault.
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post #39 of 47
6/18/10 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Oh, I'm sure you are right, I'm sure that is it. Right about Cheney too.

The job of a President is to find the people who can help him, the RIGHT people. He has had hundreds of OFFERS, maybe Barack needs to ask the right people. If Vice President Cheney is the right person, perhaps Barack should ask him. Perhaps Barack should ask President Bush.

I love it, so now it is Cheney's fault.
No, it's not Cheney's fault. But the mere fact that offers of assistance are partisan is totally nauseating.
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post #40 of 47
6/18/10 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
No, it's not Cheney's fault. But the mere fact that offers of assistance are partisan is totally nauseating.
So you think Barack would take Vice President Cheney's advice if given? Oh yeah, I can REALLY see that happening. Maybe in an althernate universe.

What I think is "totally nauseating" is the fact that Barack doesn't have a clue what to do, him being the leader of the free world and all.
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post #41 of 47
6/18/10 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
So you think Barack would take Vice President Cheney's advice if given? Oh yeah, I can REALLY see that happening. Maybe in an althernate universe.

What I think is "totally nauseating" is the fact that Barack doesn't have a clue what to do, him being the leader of the free world and all.
I don't recall him making any ridiculous claims of being "leader of the free world". Although he was given credit for walking on water earlier.

You won't see Cheney offering any advice, because he's clueless as well. So, who is Obama supposed to ask about well blowouts in deep water. Who has all the experience in dealing with these things?
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post #42 of 47
6/18/10 at 11:11am
I've heard theories about why Obama has been sitting on his hands from the right-wing conspiracy types. Frankly these make as much sense as the legal/financial theory you put out there.

Please Note: I do not necessarily agree with or believe any of these! These are, admitadly, some of the "out there" theories that I have heard on the radio and elsewhere, including but not limited to personal conversations with people who pretty much think that the simplest explanation is a conspiracy theory.
  • Obama has made no bones about the fact that he doesn't like offshore drilling, which is why it was such a surprise when he approved more exploration a month or so before this happened. While I'm sure it's a coincidence (right??) he was sure quick to jump on banning all offshore drilling or exploration by all companies "until we understand why this happened and have put measures in place so this never happens again." To put that in perspective, they still have no idea why the Ixtoc spill happened (referenced in mrblanche's thread) from 1979. And it immediately put ~40,000 men and women across America on the unemployment rolls. So much for putting America back to work.
  • Obama has also been quite vocal about his environmental agenda, i.e. Cap & Trade, amongst other "green" initiatives aimed at forcing us off of "foreign oil" and replacing it with new energy solutions. If anything reinforces the need for that it is this spill - showing how horrible drilling is to our natural resources, etc. Of course, it wouldn't be such a show if the big guns (per se) were called in and it were cleaned up within a month and before it hit land, now would it? I heard an interview with the ever-dundering Robert Gibbs who took the opportunity to say that this just reinforces the need to get off foreign oil, and how dangerous it is to get foreign oil. I thought maybe he would catch himself after the first time, but no...he kept right on with the "foreign oil" party/administration line for almost a minute (that's a long time talking!) when talking about how the Gulf oil spill would affect President Obama's push for green initiatives. I'm not sure how oil affects the electrical plants that run off of coal and natural gas, but I guess it does. No mention of the fact that we don't have the technology and/or resources available at a reasonable price to make a clean switch to the new energy solutions of solar and wind.
  • And of course there's also the whole idea that Americans drive entirely too much to begin with, and there's nothing like a big oil issue to drive the prices of gas up up UP so it will hit us in the wallet. Nevermind that it would also hit the Europeans and Canadians who are struggling financially as much or more than we are, depending on the country, and who already have sky high gas (petrol) prices anyway. No mention of the fact that we don't actually have the technology or at least the methods of production for all of these "green cars" that he wants us all to have, nor do most US cities have the public transportation needed to enable people to get from one place to another efficiently. I guess he doesn't have to worry about how everyone would actually get these vehicles or to our jobs, he just wants us to do it. (Maybe he spent so much time in Chicago that he thinks everyplace has an L train? I wish we did, it is a really great way to get around Chicago and the outlying areas.)
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post #43 of 47
6/18/10 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
I've heard theories about why Obama has been sitting on his hands from the right-wing conspiracy types. Frankly these make as much sense as the legal/financial theory you put out there.
Most of them do make sense. How true any one/all of them are is probably something we'll never, ever be privy too.

It looks to me as though both camps are making good use of a crisis...politically, that is. The fact that real livelihoods are at stake seems to have slipped ALL their minds, though.
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post #44 of 47
6/18/10 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
I had no idea she had ever worked in the oil industry. Dick Cheney has been running his head about everything that comes to mind, AND, he's a big oil man. Wonder where he is right about now?
Right now the Coast Guard is under Homeland Security. Admiral Thad Allen takes his instructions from Janet. Oh, as for Vice Pres. Cheney, the last I knew he was retired, same as Bush.
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post #45 of 47
6/18/10 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
Right now the Coast Guard is under Homeland Security. Admiral Thad Allen takes his instructions from Janet. Oh, as for Vice Pres. Cheney, the last I knew he was retired, same as Bush.
So, in your opinion, being retired prevents one from aiding in their fields of expertise in any capacity?
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post #46 of 47
6/18/10 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
So, in your opinion, being retired prevents one from aiding in their fields of expertise in any capacity?
No, it prevents them from being blamed for things that are not their fault.

Plus, maybe Bush and Cheney HAVE offered help and been turned down.
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post #47 of 47
6/18/10 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
No, it prevents them from being blamed for things that are not their fault.

Plus, maybe Bush and Cheney HAVE offered help and been turned down.
I'm sure if that had happened, Fox News would have told us all about it by now.
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