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Food For Thought - Where do YOU stand?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/05/27/w...e-this-stupid/

Quote:
Back in 2008, when I was fulminating against multiculturalism on a more or less weekly basis, a reader wrote to advise me to lighten up, on the grounds that “we’re rich enough to afford to be stupid.”

Two years later, we’re a lot less rich. In fact, many Western nations are, in any objective sense, insolvent. Hence last week’s column, on the EU’s decision to toss a trillion dollars into the great sucking maw of Greece’s public-sector kleptocracy. It no longer matters whether you’re intellectually in favour of European-style social democracy: simply as a practical matter, it’s unaffordable.


How did the Western world reach this point? Well, as my correspondent put it, we assumed that we were rich enough that we could afford to be stupid. In any advanced society, there will be a certain number of dysfunctional citizens either unable or unwilling to do what is necessary to support themselves and their dependents. What to do about such people? Ignore the problem? Attempt to fix it? The former nags at the liberal guilt complex, while the latter is way too much like hard work: the modern progressive has no urge to emulate those Victorian social reformers who tramped the streets of English provincial cities looking for fallen women to rescue. All he wants to do is ensure that the fallen women don’t fall anywhere near him.

So the easiest “solution” to the problem is to throw public money at it.

The modern welfare state operates on the same principle: since the Second World War, the hard-working middle classes have transferred historically unprecedented amounts of money to the unproductive sector in order not to have to think about it. But so what? We were rich enough that we could afford to be stupid.

That works for a while. In the economic expansion of the late 20th century, citizens of Western democracies paid more in taxes but lived better than their parents and grandparents. They weren’t exactly rich, but they got richer. They also got more stupid.

When William Beveridge laid out his blueprint for the modern British welfare state in 1942, his goal was the “abolition of want.” Sir William and his colleagues on both sides of the Atlantic succeeded beyond their wildest dreams: to be “poor” in the 21st-century West is not to be hungry and emaciated but to be obese, with your kids suffering from childhood diabetes. When Michelle Obama turned up to serve food at a soup kitchen, its poverty-stricken clientele snapped pictures of her with their cellphones.

In one-sixth of British households, not a single family member works. They are not so much without employment as without need of it. At a certain level, your hard-working bourgeois understands that the bulk of his contribution to the treasury is entirely wasted. It’s one of the basic rules of life: if you reward bad behaviour, you get more of it. But, in good and good-ish times, who cares?

By the way, where does the government get the money to fund all these immensely useful programs? According to a Fox News poll earlier this year, 65 per cent of Americans understand that the government gets its money from taxpayers, but 24 per cent of Americans think the government has “plenty of its own money without using taxpayer dollars.” You can hardly blame them for getting that impression in an age in which there is almost nothing the state won’t pay for.

I confess I warmed to that much-mocked mayor in Doncaster, England, who announced a year or two back that he wanted to stop funding for the Gay Pride parade on the grounds that, if they’re so damn proud of it, why can’t they pay for it? He was actually making a rather profound point, but, as I recall, he was soon forced to back down.

In Canada, almost every ethnocultural booster group is on the public teat. Outside Palestine House in Toronto the other week, the young Muslim men were caught on tape making explicitly eliminationist threats about Jews, but c’mon, everything else in Canada is taxpayer-funded, why not genocidal incitement? We’re rich enough that we can afford to be stupid.
2-page article, much more at link.
post #2 of 11
Well our country has further shot itself in the foot by letting the Conservatives have the majority in parliment they absolutly ruined Britain the first time.....closing the mines and ship yards privatising the railway so it isnt going to get better anytime soon.....they want to cut funding for the military clever people eh?

as for the 1 in 6 families where not one member works i quite believe that there are some lazy people but there are families that are trying so hard in finding work and just cant....my dad worked on the railway for 33 years and has just been made redundant and as there are no railway jobs he will struggle to find decent work which will make enough money to keep the roof over our heads, his formaer company had a lot of money but wasted it and got into a lot of debt. I work in a dying trade (pub) and dont make a great deal of money, one of my brothers cleverly went to university studied law but theres no jobs for graduates its a never ending cylce for a lot of families

all the time in the news its how much money our little country is in debt, ill have to find quote to back it up but im sure its into hundreds of billions, i know there are plans to reduce the countries debt by 6.2bill in the next 3 years, and europe just seems screwed.
post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
Are conservatives in your country what we would call liberal in our country?

I ask this because I have a hard time seeing conservatives in the United States "closing the mines and ship yards."
post #4 of 11
Im not sure, I dont get how your government works tbh I really hoped Labour would of stayed in power

We have 3 major parties here Labour, Conservatives and the Liberal demorcrates, the latter two creating a collation after a hung parliment a couple weeks back
post #5 of 11
Margaret Thatcher was a famous British conservative - who indeed did shut the mines, etc. And no one would mistake Ms Thatcher for being liberal, as we define liberal here. Some people would say she's a Gladstone liberal, though.

I can see US conservatives indeed shutting mines, if they couldn't maintain an appropriate measure of profit - I do agree US conservatives wouldn't shut a mine due to issues like safety or environmental damage.
post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by -_aj_- View Post
Im not sure, I dont get how your government works tbh I really hoped Labour would of stayed in power

We have 3 major parties here Labour, Conservatives and the Liberal demorcrates, the latter two creating a collation after a hung parliment a couple weeks back
We have two major parties- the Republican, and the Democrat- both of which have their splinter factions. In this day and age there are probably those on the far right of spectrum who would believe that Reagan would be too liberal for their tastes.
post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Are conservatives in your country what we would call liberal in our country?

I ask this because I have a hard time seeing conservatives in the United States "closing the mines and ship yards."
conservatives in the UK are similar to conservatives in the US, labor are socialists and liberal democrats are similar to US liberals. At least IMO, as a liberal according to US standards I think liberal democracts have similar views, but then again some will tell me that they are more moderate
I'm having a hard time seeing it too
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by darlili View Post
Margaret Thatcher was a famous British conservative - who indeed did shut the mines, etc. And no one would mistake Ms Thatcher for being liberal, as we define liberal here. Some people would say she's a Gladstone liberal, though.

I can see US conservatives indeed shutting mines, if they couldn't maintain an appropriate measure of profit - I do agree US conservatives wouldn't shut a mine due to issues like safety or environmental damage.
Oh, I thought Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan worked well together.

What was her reason for shutting down the mines? And who and why would anyone shut down ship yards?

Of course, you have to make a profit or your business will go under. I don't think that is true that conservatives don't care about safety and the environment. We just don't go as whacko over the environment as many on the left.

I just can't see holding up getting what you need to clean up a terrible oil spill so the moronic environmentalists can do a "environmental study." That was one of THE most asinine things I heard this week.
post #9 of 11
Or, maybe not working out scenarios to see if you can cope with worst case scenarios? Perhaps without using dispersants that have never been tested in such amounts at such depths? Won't it be just dandy if we find out that the dispersants are more destructive than even the oil? Or is that ok? Like making sure the oil is deep below the surface so we don't actually see it? Although, I agree, kind of a shame corporations aren 't responsible for figuring out how to fix what they break before they start breaking things.

I'm finding it increasingly disturbing that in the face of this disaster, which makes the Exxon Valdez look like a sneeze, that some of the corporations involved are still going on about 'proprietary' info and refusing to release information about exactly what's in their products. This isn't McDonald's secret sauce, after all -this is our planet.

Opinions on Thatcher and her effects on the UK are pretty easily found in history books and even in the UK, although Wikipedia is a little suspect
post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by darlili View Post
Or, maybe not working out scenarios to see if you can cope with worst case scenarios? Perhaps without using dispersants that have never been tested in such amounts at such depths? Won't it be just dandy if we find out that the dispersants are more destructive than even the oil? Or is that ok? Like making sure the oil is deep below the surface so we don't actually see it? Although, I agree, kind of a shame corporations aren 't responsible for figuring out how to fix what they break before they start breaking things.

I'm finding it increasingly disturbing that in the face of this disaster, which makes the Exxon Valdez look like a sneeze, that some of the corporations anare still going on about 'proprietary' info and refusing to release information about exactly what's in their products. This isn't McDonald's secret sauce, after all -this is our planet.

Opinions on Thatcher and her effects on the UK are pretty easily found in history books and even in the UK, although Wikipedia is a little suspect
You do realize that BP and George Soros are closely connected> I remember posting a thread on this forum last summer decrying the fact that Barack gave George Soros/BP millions of dollars to drill for oil in Brazil. There is a very close Obama/Soros/BP connection.

I agree this dispersant is scary stuff.
post #11 of 11
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...2070735AAkwBrv

is the best answer i can find for why she shut them, ok yeah she had a reason but the back lash was unbelievable thousands and thousands of men left jobless no jobs to walk into because they were time served miners
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_mine...2%80%931985%29

My partners family were miners and ship/dockyard workers and in the areas that they live you would be very lucky to find anyone that supports the conservatives


This is the sort of thing our country likes to waste our money on
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-20645518/
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