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In a disaster, at what point should the federal government take over?

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
Contrary to some people's beliefs, even the Tea Party believe there is a time, place and need for the Federal Government beyond maintaining a national military force. In particular, the federal government is there to handle emergency management that is beyond the capabilities of the states.

While Bush was WIDELY criticized for his "slow" reaction to Hurricane Katrina and the levy breaks of New Orleans, he actually followed protocol in waiting for the Louisiana State or Local Governments to request assistance from the Federal Government. Maybe people just didn't know that. Maybe the press (who should have known that) decided to ignore that in the face of so much tragedy. Maybe there isn't a contingency that supposes that the state/local government is in disarray or cannot use telephone or other reliable (fast) means to ask for assistance. If that was the case I hope that was corrected.

Frankly I'm not sure how the oil "spill" in the Gulf would work as far as the Federal Government stepping in. I presume it's far enough out that it is in International Waters (???) but it sure as heck is impacting the United State's shorelines and economy. Thus far it has been left up to BP to "cap" the hole/spill, which they won't even allow analysts to view to see just how much oil is spilling into the gulf per day. They obviously have a vested interest in trying to cap this thing in a way that would allow them to syphon off the oil in the near term and possibly be able to come back to tap the well again in the future. However, I have heard "authorities" on the subject (yes, on Fox News) say that the quickest and easiest way to stop the leak is to blow the top of it with some kind of explosive, best decided by the Navy, but it would not allow the well to be re-drilled or re-tapped at a future date.

Arizona is another example. They have requested Federal Assistance with border security and thus far have gotten no response. Not even a "No". Phoenix has become the kidnapping capital of the US in large part due to the drug cartels. There is no denying that there is a violence problem because of the drug trade that runs through their border. (I'm not talking AT ALL about illegal immigrants here, but the Drug Cartels that have made norther Mexico and southern Arizona in particular a very dangerous place to be.)

These last two are examples because they are current, NOT because I'm criticizing Obama implicitly!
  • At what point do you feel it is the Federal Government's job to step in and do something to assist the state/local governments? Should state/local gov'ts have to ask first?
  • Should state governors have control over their State Reserve/Guard Forces (military) under any circumstances? I.E. Should the Arizona governor be able to call up the Arizona State Reserves and Guard to patrol the border, just as governors have that power to do in natural disasters (when we have a heavy snow, the Reserves/Guard is called up by the Governor to assist with snowbound vehicles/occupants and if it's in a rural area to bring food/assistance to homes)?
  • Should the government have the authority/be required to "take over" something like the BP oil disaster since it is affecting our coastline and economy thus far? (So far the most I've heard from our government is that BP will pay for it, and pressuring them to do it. )
post #2 of 9
Unbeknownst to many is the fact that the federal government has been following protocal with the oil spill from the start. The issue that they face is the fact that the oil industry has been on a self-regulating honor system for so long that the government has no real knowledge on how to go about fixing the problem. Theories abound, but since no one has ever had to face this particular type of problem before, no one knows which theory will work. There is a part of me that wants the government to kick the BP bums out and take over the issue, then I realize that they would probably be less effective than the company that has been in the business for decades. That problem is what it is and I truly believe that the only way they can be effective is by putting in regulation that prevents this from happening again.

For Arizona drug cartel issues, that is an entirely different beast. The border between the U.S. and Mexico is so HUGE and the terrain so difficult in spots that I don't see how they could entirely shut it out. I've been to most of the border towns in Arizona and you are talking about very hilly if not mountainous regions (think of the Taliban hiding in their mountain hide outs). The U.S. would need to deploy a very large army to patrol it effectively. I don't see it as an issue of whether they are willing to do it, I see it more of an issue of the practicality of doing it. I'll go as far as stating that if they want to keep the drug trading criminals out of the country, then they should legalize pot in the U.S. and kill the Mexican drug cartel business (assuming pot is their primary business). It would be easier to do than manning the borders.

Just my 2 cents.
post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
I saw a good part of the White House Briefing today with the Admiral from the Coast Guard who is in charge of the operations there. He didn't put it quite the same way that you did but did say that these methods are ones that are used above ground but since they have never had this problem 5,000 below water.

Of course to me it sounded like a lot of PR mumbo jumbo the same as BP it putting out. That's not to say that there are any better options out there or that the gov't isn't minding their P's & Q's, just that what they are saying has a real hollow ring to it.

For instance, the EPA demanded that BP stop using the dispersant they have been using. It has been outlawed in England (you know, BRITISH Petroleum...) and there are huge questions about its toxicity. BP has thus far refused. So now what? There was a lady there who said there were ongoing discussions about that topic etc. etc. but it still leaves the gov't in a position of being on their knees, asking "please sir, can I have more pudding?"

I do understand where you're coming from, Amy. There hasn't been regulation on this industry, even after the Exxon Valdez spill. Which this is exponentially worse, but they won't let anyone close enough to see how much worse. BP won't listen to any other theories on how to stop this except theirs. They won't even give anyone else a chance to try. And I feel like our gov't isn't doing enough, especially as the one who does everything possible to be ecologically friendly - higher vehicle standards, lowering emission standards, etc. But this HUGE ecological disaster isn't getting a whole lot of attention??? (I'm sure it is, it just doesn't seem to be the hill they are willing to die for, if you know that saying...)
post #4 of 9
I think the government should take over a problem when it has grown to the point that private actions, businesses, NGO's, etc. can not solve the problem. That is, of course, why they are responsible for such things as fighting wars.
post #5 of 9
BP is demonstrating capitalism at its worst through this crisis. It is private industry that is not under strict enough regulation. The chemical dispersant comes from a company who's head is a board member for BP - why would they go to a different one if it hurts their chronies? If they do what's right for the environment and the people who are impacted by the disaster, their profit margin goes down. And heaven forbid that we impact the stock price of a company that employs thousands of citizens.

I don't think the government should take over, but I do think they need independent oversight to keep the interests of the citizens of the U.S. as the first priority. But would BP bother to obey that committee?

This is what happens with insufficient regulation. What laws are in place to force BP to comply with anything right now? Does the U.S. simply sue BP over this? Does the U.S. even have the right to step in and throw them out?
post #6 of 9
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momofmany View Post
This is what happens with insufficient regulation. What laws are in place to force BP to comply with anything right now? Does the U.S. simply sue BP over this? Does the U.S. even have the right to step in and throw them out?
And moreso that there was no one overseeing the overseers.

I always watch Fox when I'm home for lunch. Say what you will about their commentary shows, their news is good and Shepherd Smith is His home is southern Mississippi and he holds everyone's feet to the fire when it comes to the Mississippi/Louisiana coast. I will never forget the days following Katrina when every news outlet and their mother were in New Orleans showing the horrors, and Fox was no different except that Shepherd requested to go for them. It wasn't the second day they were on the ground that he came on the air and he was pissed! This was when there were people of every persuasion and race (but mainly the poor blacks) were walking the highways trying to find somewhere that wasn't flooded, and someone who could help them. He said that every couple minutes or less there were people coming up to their news van, and every news van, asking for water or food or anything. He gave them anything they could spare, right up to the shirt off his back. After the first day when they saw what was going on they loaded up palettes of water into the van, had the hotel make as many sandwiches as they could pack and brought as much fruit as they could too. They literally only has as much broadcasting gear as was absolutely necessary so they could bring help for the people that happened to be the same place they were. He was so mad because he saw other news vans with plenty of food/water/goodies for their crews turn people away time and time again. They got their interview and sent them walking along. Shep only has 1 hour during mid-day and he FUMED the entire time he was on the air the first day that he saw that!

I know that's not relevant, but I wanted to show that even though I do watch Fox, it isn't all conservative babble day and night. Shep is one of the best journalists I've seen.

What he was reporting on today, and mad as heck again because this may have cost his people again, is a report that was published today that investigated the office that is supposed to oversee the safety and ensure the offshore rigs in the Gulf and ensure they are complying with the regulations that are in place (flimsy though they may be). It found that employees had taken gifts from the oil and gas companies (BIG no-no!), some were watching porn on government computers, and at least one admitted to doing meth while working there and having "meth hangovers" if not still being under the influence. There were some other bad things happening too.

I'm sure that there were good employees there who did their best, but if the good ones are thwarted by the upper management types who are getting a little too cozy with the ones they are supposed to be regulating then nothing is actually regulated or checked.

There does have to be oversight, and even more than that - there has to be accountability and oversight for the overseers.
post #7 of 9
When did being bribed become "accepting gifts"?
post #8 of 9
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
When did being bribed become "accepting gifts"?
Apparently when it's not straight up cash that's what they call it now. The politically correct thing to do, you know.

Here's a story about that report.
post #9 of 9
Did anyone watch the interview with one of the survivors of the oil rig explosion on 60 Minutes a couple of weeks ago? The employee was saying there were signs that the equipment to help prevent blowbacks was damaged because there were chunks of rubber coming up. He was also saying that management pushed them to keep drilling despite the safety risks. If you haven't seen the interview you may still be able to watch it on You Tube (which is where I saw it last week).

I heard today on the radio the government wants to enact tougher regulations in regards to preventing blowouts.
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TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › In a disaster, at what point should the federal government take over?