TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › Greece and the State of California
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Greece and the State of California

post #1 of 12
5/12/10 at 12:35pm
Thread Starter 
I don't know much about the Greece situation am just starting to read up on it.

But the State of California is in bad shape.
Living in a neighboring state most of our vendors are from California. What I am hearing is the best thing for California is to file for bankruptcy. Can I state file for bankruptcy? I have no idea.
The thinking is, if they do that then they start with a clean slate and can re-negotiate all state union contracts. Which would be a great thing as the pathetic Unions will not do anything to help California with their horrible shortfall.

The connection between California and Greece seems to be that giving everything to everyone, entitlement programs up the wazoo, is bankrupting the world.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aMHZOCQK9hC4

Quote:
Schwarzenegger Preps ‘Terrible Cuts’ to Close Deficit (Update1)
Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A By Michael B. Marois and William Selway

May 11 (Bloomberg) -- California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger will seek “terrible cuts” to eliminate an $18.6 billion budget deficit facing the most-populous U.S. state through June 2011, his spokesman said.

Schwarzenegger, 62, who will introduce his revised budget plans on May 14, has said he won’t seek tax increases to bolster California’s finances. The Republican’s forecast for the budget gap may rise after revenue fell short of his targets last month.

Schwarzenegger’s newest plan will revise the proposals introduced in January to account for the tax-collection shortages. In January, the governor said California may have to eliminate entire welfare programs, including the main one that provides cash and job assistance to families below the poverty line, without an influx of cash from the federal government.

Since then, the Democrat-controlled Legislature has made few strides toward closing the budget hole. Legislation adopted during the emergency session ordered by Schwarzenegger knocked about $1.4 billion from the deficit.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...l-so-hard.html
Quote:
Greece: why did its economy fall so hard?
With Greece's economy in desperate trouble, Harry Wallop explains how the country got into such a mess.

By Harry Wallop, Consumer Affairs Editor
Published: 4:54PM BST 28 Apr 2010

Comments 19 | Comment on this article

Greece has long lived beyond its means and spent much of the last two centuries defaulting on its debts. Joining the euro was meant to put an end to all that. However, it merely seems to have exacerbated its problems.

It was no surprise to any economist that the European Union, at first, refused to allow the country to join the euro when the new currency started in 1999.
http://www.boston.com/business/artic...r_to_everyone/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8508136.stm

I think this country needs to take a good, long look at Greece's problems and especially the CAUSE of Greece's problems and do some serious soul searching. We are heading that way ourselves.
Reply
post #2 of 12
5/19/10 at 11:20am
California Debt Beats Greece’s in Bond Sales: Credit Markets
Quote:
The bond market is showing California is no Greece.

Debt issued by California, the world’s eighth-largest economy, is outperforming Greece’s bonds as funds including Cumberland Advisors say investors are betting the lowest-rated U.S. state’s credit risk has been exaggerated. The cost to protect against California not paying its obligations is the lowest relative to Greece in at least 15 months, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

Greece, with the European Union’s largest budget deficit and an economy one-fifth the size of California’s, is grappling with a debt crisis that’s resulting in skyrocketing borrowing costs. The yield on the 10-year Greek bond rose to 7.16 percent on Jan. 28, the highest since October 1999, prompting European leaders to pledge aid to the nation. Even with an $18 billion budget gap expected over the next 15 months, California sold $3.4 billion in taxable debt last week at its lowest costs since November as overseas buyers purchased 30 percent of the securities.
Quote:
Highest government debt among E.U. countries, as a share of GDP

Italy 115.8%

Greece 115.1

Belgium 96.7

Hungary 78.3

France 77.6

Portugal 76.8

Germany 73.2

Malta 69.1

U.K. 68.1

Austria 66.5

SOURCE: EUROSTAT, 2009 FIGURES

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...#ixzz0oOuLfjm9
Country Comparison :: Public debt

Quote:
8 \tGreece \t
113.40
\t
2009 est.
9 \tSudan \t
104.50
\t
2009 est.
10 \tBelgium \t
99.00
\t
2009 est.
11 \tIceland \t
95.10
\t
2009 est.
12 \tNicaragua \t
87.00
\t
2009 est.
13 \tSri Lanka \t
82.90
\t
2009 est.
14 \tEgypt \t
79.80
\t
2009 est.
15 \tFrance \t
79.70
\t
2009 est.
16 \tHungary \t
78.00
\t
2009 est.
17 \tIsrael \t
78.00
\t
2009 est.
18 \tGermany \t
77.20
\t
2009 est.
19 \tPortugal \t
75.20
\t
2009 est.
20 \tCanada \t
72.30
\t
2009 est.
21 \tJordan \t
69.90
\t
2009 est.
22 \tUnited Kingdom \t
68.50
\t
2009 est.
23 \tGhana \t
67.50
\t
2009 est.
24 \tMalta \t
67.00
\t
2009 est.
25 \tAustria \t
66.50
\t
2009 est.
26 \tCote d'Ivoire \t
63.80
\t
2009 est.
27 \tIreland \t
63.70
\t
2009 est.
28 \tNetherlands \t
62.20
\t
2009 est.
29 \tCroatia \t
61.00
\t
2009 est.
30 \tNorway \t
60.20
\t
2009 est.
31 \tIndia \t
59.60
\t
2009 est.
32 \tPhilippines \t
58.70
\t
2009 est.
33 \tUruguay \t
58.70
\t
2009 est.
34 \tMauritius \t
58.30
\t
2009 est.
35 \tMalawi \t
58.00
\t
2009 est.
36 \tBhutan \t
57.80
\t
2009
37 \tWorld \t
56.00
\t
2009 est.
38 \tEl Salvador \t
55.40
\t
2009 est.
39 \tAlbania \t
54.90
\t
2009 est.
40 \tKenya \t
54.10
\t
2009 est.
41 \tMorocco \t
54.10
\t
2009 est.
42 \tUnited States \t
52.90
\t
2009 est.
Reply
post #3 of 12
5/19/10 at 11:58am
The way things are going now, we are heading right along the same exact path - our future is right in front of us. Wonder if anyone really is looking????
Reply
post #4 of 12
5/19/10 at 12:54pm
Thread Starter 
Tricia, whoever said they feel like California's debt is being inflated is clueless, it is most likely worse than stated.

Golden, I am noticing. And from the looks of the mood of this country so are many people.
Reply
post #5 of 12
5/21/10 at 1:36pm
The problem with California is that the government actually doesn't control much of the budget. It takes only a simple majority to pass a proposition with spending increases and takes a supermajority 2/3 to pass any taxes to pay for it. The legislature actually has very little control over the budget.. Like Proposition 98 which guaranteed at least 40% of the general fund for education.

California actually has a leaner government than most states. There are 108 state employees per 10000 residents which is less than the average 143 for the US. The only area growing in budget is the prison system so cuts there mean releasing felons before the end of their sentence.

The voters have done it to themselves. The Republicans have made it so hard to raise taxes and the "starve the beast" didn't work.
Reply
post #6 of 12
5/23/10 at 4:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
The voters have done it to themselves. The Republicans have made it so hard to raise taxes and the "starve the beast" didn't work.
California's out of control spending is not the fault of Republicans and everyone knows that. Liberals have ruined the state and taxed people and businesses to the hilt.

Businesses and people are leaving the State in droves. California turned itself in a "nanny state" and had no regard for spending. Their motto, "just raise taxes".

Liberals have done this to the State of California and NO one can say any different and have any credibility whatsoever. They are reaping what they have sown.
Reply
post #7 of 12
5/23/10 at 5:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
California's out of control spending is not the fault of Republicans and everyone knows that. Liberals have ruined the state and taxed people and businesses to the hilt.

Businesses and people are leaving the State in droves. California turned itself in a "nanny state" and had no regard for spending. Their motto, "just raise taxes".

Liberals have done this to the State of California and NO one can say any different and have any credibility whatsoever. They are reaping what they have sown.
No, they are just as responsible. There should be responsible taxation as there is responsible spending. California has neither. The voters themselves are voting for more spending but blocking all taxation.

Businesses look for more than just low taxes. Their employees should be able to be reasonably expect good schools, access to city, county and state services. California is failing in all areas.
Reply
post #8 of 12
5/23/10 at 6:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katachtig View Post
No, they are just as responsible. There should be responsible taxation as there is responsible spending. California has neither. The voters themselves are voting for more spending but blocking all taxation.

Businesses look for more than just low taxes. Their employees should be able to be reasonably expect good schools, access to city, county and state services. California is failing in all areas.
The people voting for more spending are liberals. Arnold has tried hard to rein in spending but the liberal legislature of California just won't have it. That is truth, that is fact.

The fact of the matter is the citizens of California have been taxed to death.

Do you REALLY believe what you are saying here? Do you live in California?

If you really believe the above, just where has all the money gone in California? What is it being spent on that,
Quote:
to be reasonably expect good schools, access to city, county and state services. California is failing in all areas.
I find your post really incredible.
Reply
post #9 of 12
5/23/10 at 7:20pm
Both sides should take the blame - I was talking about the WH looking at Greece and seeing the writing on the wall.........but I'm sure the WH wants to walk that path no matter what we all think.
Reply
post #10 of 12
5/23/10 at 7:43pm
The thing is, you say that the Liberals are responsible for the whole mess. I think that the average citizen is responsible for it. They like to spend but not pay for it. How is that the Republicans could convince everyone to pass an extremely restrictive policy like Proposition 13 but can't convince the same people to cut the spending? Witness Prop 98. Since California can't get 2/3 of the legislature to raise taxes or to agree on all of the spending cuts, we can now witness the Republican's "Starve the beast" in action.

Something to put into perspective: California's budget deficit is about $18 billion, or 1% of its $1.85 trillion Gross State Product (GSP). Greece's budget deficit is about $47 billion, or an estimated 13.6% of its $343 billion GDP.

California's total tax-supported debt is around $72 billion, or 4% of GSP. Greece's total debt is around $430 billion, an estimated 125% of GDP.
Reply
post #11 of 12
5/23/10 at 7:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
The way things are going now, we are heading right along the same exact path - our future is right in front of us. Wonder if anyone really is looking????
Golden, yes a lot of us are looking. Christians in this country really need to be praying. The USA is in a fix.
Reply
post #12 of 12
5/24/10 at 4:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katachtig View Post
The thing is, you say that the Liberals are responsible for the whole mess. I think that the average citizen is responsible for it. They like to spend but not pay for it. How is that the Republicans could convince everyone to pass an extremely restrictive policy like Proposition 13 but can't convince the same people to cut the spending? Witness Prop 98. Since California can't get 2/3 of the legislature to raise taxes or to agree on all of the spending cuts, we can now witness the Republican's "Starve the beast" in action.

Something to put into perspective: California's budget deficit is about $18 billion, or 1% of its $1.85 trillion Gross State Product (GSP). Greece's budget deficit is about $47 billion, or an estimated 13.6% of its $343 billion GDP.

California's total tax-supported debt is around $72 billion, or 4% of GSP. Greece's total debt is around $430 billion, an estimated 125% of GDP.
Okay, I agree we Americans bear our share of responsibility for this, for sure.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: IMO: In My Opinion
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › Greece and the State of California