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How to describe this color?

post #1 of 25
5/10/10 at 8:53pm
Thread Starter 
Ok, I have a conundrum. Our grey and white bicolor now shows a couple of brown spots mixed in between the blue. What on earth do I say she is???

This will only be used for future reference as she has been sold, and has been seen in person. The woman who has purchased her thinks it's a strange coloration too. We're clueless!! LOL


.

The largest spot is right in the middle of her back, but has a couple smaller spots.

I'm confused LOL

Help me out??
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post #2 of 25
5/10/10 at 9:02pm
Grey is not a color so she could be seal or black or blue.
What color is the fur on her?
Wrinkles has those brown spots also and she is seal tortie and white.
What color are her eyes?
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post #3 of 25
5/10/10 at 9:15pm
Looks like a blue cream and white to me.

Jacky is correct, you should not use the term grey when referring to pedigreed cats. They are blues

I personally do not allow people to see my kittens until after they have had their first vaccinations. Cross contamination is a very real threat, and young kittens are incredibly delicate. So I hope that this is an older picture. . . kittens that young need extra protection.

You especially need to take care if this was the litter with the blood type issues. They did not get the colostral milk and thus do not have their mother's passive immunity--very risky to let strangers handle them, especially if they have any other animals at home.
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post #4 of 25
5/11/10 at 1:19am
Thread Starter 
I had no idea that a kitten can have colors that aren't in the pedigree. I was thinking she could be a dilute tortie. The customer said she might do DNA testing to find out for sure. Since this is my first true Sphynx litter, I'm trying to learn more about the different colors that are possible coming from my queens breeding with my boy. Seeing it in person is quite different than only online.

Jackie, she is 3 weeks old, so of course her eyes are still the baby blue. The only hair present is on her nose which is white.

Sorry about the grey color comment. I do refer to them correctly when speaking or advertising. It was a typo. I hope you all don't think I'm as dumb as a bag of hammers!!

About germs: all persons, including all of us here at home sanitize our hands as soon as we enter the cat room. It seems to be working well, kittens are totally fine with no runny/goopy eyes or congestion issues. My vet is very ecstatic that we are being diligent under the circumstances of no immunity being passed on to them from the start. Bedding is changed frequently as well. Alot of other cleaning and sanitizing is also carried out on a regular basis. Yes, this litter is the more vulnerable, but I believe I'm doing things right. The person who was here was looking at my older sphynx kittens.

In a week another queen with mismatched blood is due. We are expecting 4 for sure, possibly 6 kittens. My devon/sphynx queen is also due soon, on Thursday. She will be retiring after this. We will no longer be breeding crosses.
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post #5 of 25
5/11/10 at 4:46am
Ok what are the parent's colors and grandparents colors? I agree might be a bluecream & white if one parent is carrying red/cream and the other black/blue.

And PLEASE if you are gonna be a good breeder - use the proper color terms!
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post #6 of 25
5/11/10 at 4:46am
Hard to tell by that pic only but I'd guess she's a dilute tortie with white spotting.
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post #7 of 25
5/11/10 at 6:26am
Thread Starter 
GK, Again, I apologize for using the term grey. Honest, I didn't mean to. I usually preview posts but that one I didn't and look what happens LOL

Parents are Blue Tortie, Brown Mackerel Tabby and White.

Grandparents are Lilac Mink, Blue Silver Classic Tabby, Cream/White, Blue Tortie Point/White.

I know it might be hard to tell in the pic, and I do apologize. Hubby has the most recent pics on his puter.
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post #8 of 25
5/11/10 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skewch View Post
I had no idea that a kitten can have colors that aren't in the pedigree. I was thinking she could be a dilute tortie. The customer said she might do DNA testing to find out for sure. Since this is my first true Sphynx litter, I'm trying to learn more about the different colors that are possible coming from my queens breeding with my boy. Seeing it in person is quite different than only online.
Red is tricky. It only takes one red hair in an otherwise solid cat to make them a tortie and not a solid. If you have any solid whites in the pedigree, you must remember that white masks everything including the red gene.


Quote:
About germs: all persons, including all of us here at home sanitize our hands as soon as we enter the cat room. It seems to be working well, kittens are totally fine with no runny/goopy eyes or congestion issues. My vet is very ecstatic that we are being diligent under the circumstances of no immunity being passed on to them from the start. Bedding is changed frequently as well. Alot of other cleaning and sanitizing is also carried out on a regular basis. Yes, this litter is the more vulnerable, but I believe I'm doing things right. The person who was here was looking at my older sphynx kittens.
Handwashing alone is insufficient in this circumstance. Many feline diseases can be carried in by the clothes, shoes, and hair of visitors. This includes the spores for ringworm, to which your kittens are very succeptible. Panleukopenia is terribly difficult to destroy and it is very deadly. Not all diseases result in URI symptoms, either. Corona typically infects the GI tract and can result in FIP in cats whose immune systems are too weak to fend off the initial infection. You need to treat that kitten room like the ICU of a hospital, otherwise you could face a lot of heartbreak--not just for you, but any person who is expecting to get a kitten from you. Those kittens do not have any maternal immunity; why take even the smallest chance that they could get sick?

In my opinion, no kitten or cat sale is ever so important that I will compromise the health of my neonates. I don't care how much people beg, I do not let pet buyers see my kittens unless they have had their vaccinations. If they have a problem with my policy, then they can go elsewhere. I am for the cats first!
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post #9 of 25
5/11/10 at 6:58am
I know sphynx people aren't really into colors as they don't need to(?), but I thought all breeders do somekind of research of genetics before they start breeding? I propably sound rude but that's not my intention (language barrier thing again).
Black sire carrying dilute + diluted tortie dam= black, blue or/and tortie (regular or diluted) females.
I agree with others, she is blue cream & white.
And very cute.
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post #10 of 25
5/11/10 at 8:21am
Ok that makes sense then - the brown tabby is genetically black. And if mom is bluecream (or blue tortie) you have both the black/red genes in there. Dad must be carrying the dilute gene to get the blue-cream & white (or dilute tortie/white) - not sure which term to use for you to register in the association - its what they use.

Only one problem - ALL of the grandparents are dilute colors - so how can the male be a brown tabby?
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post #11 of 25
5/11/10 at 8:54am
Thread Starter 
Monty is brown mackerel tabby and white van.

Again about the germs, we use Isogel to sanitize our hands. It's not like I've had the whole neighbourhood in, so I'm not concerned. They are doing excellent with no apparent illness.
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post #12 of 25
5/11/10 at 9:46am
My Wrinkles has the brownish color and it is considered red on her.
She had the DNA tests.
Many sphynx breeders do the DNA tests before they breed so they no what the sire and dam carry.
Colors do not matter when the cats are judged.
Wrinkles breeder does not let anyone in her house when the kittens are young.
She is very strict on germs.
I think the judges would consider her a blue tortie and white.
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post #13 of 25
5/11/10 at 9:55am
Colors may not matter when judging, BUT they do matter on the pedigree.

You can't have a dominate color out of dilute colors - one of the grandparents had to have the wrong color listed because they never could get a brown tabby (dominate) if they were dilute. Either the "cream/white" is really a red/white or the "blue tortie/white" is a "tortie/white". ONE of them is wrong

I do know that in the Cornish back at the beginnings there was wrong colors listed but no way to correct things. However, IMO the first 5 generations SHOULD be correct in the colors. I'd check into those grandparent colors and get one of them corrected.

Also a comment about breeding and genetics. IMO a breeder who deals with lots of colors SHOULD know some basic genetics so they can properly identify the color and know if its a possible color from the parents. I would have spotted that "wrong" combination right away as soon as I saw the pedigree
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post #14 of 25
5/11/10 at 10:02am
Martice the colors do matter on the ped.
Many of the sphynx breeders do testing to make sure the peds are right.
I am being taught how to figure the colors out.
I have to learn all of that before I breed in the future.
You also have to look for hcm pos cats in the peds of sphynx.
In fact before my Wrinklels had her DNA test I had some people look at her ped and we figured her colors out from that.
There is so much to learn before I breed in the future.
That is why I show alters right now.


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post #15 of 25
5/11/10 at 10:26am
Am I ever glad that my Maus only come in three variations; minus the any-other-variety black and the disqualifiable blues. I did see one classic tabby Mau and it was really interesting, but of course was placed as a pet.

Good luck with the colour testing

Someday I hope to own a Cornish Rex alter and will have to learn its exact colour for showing.
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post #16 of 25
5/11/10 at 10:37am
Cornies are fun - that's why I got into them and learned genetics. Before that I had Russian Blues - which only come in one color

The hardest colors to deal with in Cornies (as they only have undercoat) is telling black from black smokes - its not easy and many of them are probably mislabled (big time).

We had a black and black smoke Cornie at the last show in the alter class - and BOTH of them looked the same with the "greyish" shading on the neck. Its not a normal smoke color - the cat doesn't really have "white" at the base of the hairs because you only have the undercoat and not the top coat to really tell.

BTW the Oci's only have 12 colors (from the 4 traditional colors in the Siamese and Aby) - no "red" genes thank goodness
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post #17 of 25
5/11/10 at 10:54am
Oh believe me, the Oci's are too much for me to figure out... so far. I'm sure I'd get it after a while. I feel silly enough talking to Aby and Somali breeders about colour when I can barely tell a difference.

I rarely see Sphynx at shows.
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post #18 of 25
5/11/10 at 11:04am
I'm still learning the genetics of Oci's (even tho I'm not breeding). Jack's breeder is very good at explaining it even tho I sometimes still don't get it.

But be thankful you don't want to get into the Orientals........with over 400 color combos! That's why I don't own one - can't make up my mind on picking out a color. Everytime I think I have decided, I'll see one even better and change my mind
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post #19 of 25
5/11/10 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post

But be thankful you don't want to get into the Orientals........with over 400 color combos! That's why I don't own one - can't make up my mind on picking out a color. Everytime I think I have decided, I'll see one even better and change my mind
Well I did actually, just for an alter - but then I saw the Cornies and they looked like mini, cuter, fuzzy versions of the orientals. I do tend to like the darker colours still, black, smoke or blue. The white and calico patched ones are sweet too though.

Sorry for yapping about other breeds Skewch, but we're still discussing colour!
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post #20 of 25
5/11/10 at 11:57am
I came so close to getting a cornie.
I love how they feel and the features they have.
My friend told me to stick with sphynx right now because I plan on breeding in the future.
My friend breeds them.
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post #21 of 25
5/11/10 at 12:54pm
With the rexes, its best to go for solid colors or mostly solid. Calico vans are popular because you still have the body as being solide. Some markings just do not show off the coat well or it creates an optical illusion - not always for the good.

With the tabbies as long as the stripes are between the waves it looks fine - but that's not always possible. The only color tabby I like in Rexes is red - I can't stand the brown tabby Rexes - just don't look right to me.
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post #22 of 25
5/11/10 at 1:15pm
My friend was showing a 4 month old Red Tabby Male and a 1.10 year old Blue Female.
She also had her black smoke and a blue cream in premiership.
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post #23 of 25
5/11/10 at 5:23pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all of your great suggestions and insight. I am still learning about the colors and combinations of each. This is a daily thing for me. With the years of experience combined by persons on this site, it is very helpful.
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post #24 of 25
5/11/10 at 5:47pm
Back to the topic - I completly forget one of the most important things to mention regarding the torties/calicos. The Red/Cream colors are slow to show up! This is why your blue & white is now getting the cream patches (which look brown to you)!

I once had a litter of rexes and would write down the colors as they were born since I was right there for every kitten born.

I had written down black female on one kitten cause that is what she was (mom was a tortie bred to a black). A few days later I noticed a tiny spot of red fuzz thinking it was a piece of the blanket on the kitten. I rubbed the spot off and it didn't come off........one tiny red spot on this black kitten made her a tortie - not a black! Over the next few weeks more and more red spots showed up on the kitten and she turned out to be a nicely marked tortie.
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post #25 of 25
5/11/10 at 5:59pm
That is what is happening to my Wrinkles right now.
She used to just have red on her ears and tail.
Now she is getting the brown color all over and it is ugly.
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