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I hope I am not doing EVERYTHING wrong with this cat ....

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
I don’t want to take up too much space my first post, and I am not sure if there is an unwritten rule about post lengths. So I will just say that more detail about the cat I am asking advice on can be found on my website here http://honeylioness.proboards.com/in...lay&thread=152

The short version is that last week I was able to get into my home a stray cat I have been feeding for about a year who has a variety of scabs, scars, wounds, and abscesses from fighting to just barely survive on the streets. He has tested negative for FLV or FIV and got his shots last week for rabies and distemper along with treatment for his ear mites. I had been keeping him quarantined away from my other cats until I knew he was not going to spread any sort of contagion through the house.

The cat, David, never made a sound as he was put into the cat carrier, driven to the vets or while he was being examined and having blood drawn – which I found really strange. I have heard him mrowled late at night as if calling for unseen comrades still outside – but no sounds other than that.

He is incredibly underweight as evidenced by the prominence of his back bone and ribs but the vet said this is normal for a cat on the streets and suggested kitten food for now as it has more protein. He is currently sequestered while I am not home in my studio with a clean cat box and fresh food and water each morning and sometimes again at night.

Here is my question/dilemma –

I have been reading a lot in the last week about how to deal with feral/wild cats and I am wondering if I have, or am, doing everything wrong with David.

Much of what I have read says to not touch the cat, basically pretend to ignore him completely and let him come to you which could take weeks or months. However David has a large abscess on his back from whatever fight or accident he got into and the other night it burst. The vet and I had talked about it and she said if I was comfortable with doing what was necessary I should help it drain or help express any puss inside and then apply an antibiotic ointment to the area as his immune system was likely not as robust as it should be.

So I have been “catching†him once a day to tend to this wound. Which all I have read says is the worse thing you can do. He does occasionally hiss at me when I reach for him, but once I have him in my arms he is very quiet and makes not a sound, though I did detect a shiver from him. Would I be correct in assuming that rather than being docile he is actually terrified? And is my treating his wound only terrifying him more so that he will never relax around people?

I have never taken in a cat before where I had no idea of any past human interactions or experience and cannot determine if he is socialized or not. Of note he has not made any aggressive display towards any of the other cats who this weekend were allowed to wander into the office for brief visits.

What is the difference between a feral or a wild cat? Can one be a wild cat even if they were originally or at some point lived with a family? To me feral means they were born wild and have never had any positive contact with people at all. Anyways …..

Any comments or suggestions on how to balance the two – tending his wound versus ignoring him all together – would be appreciated.
post #2 of 40
First, just like people, all cats are different. I used to socialise cats at an animal shelter and none of them followed the exact socialising guidelines. With some cats, I have found that sitting there and letting them come to you is the best thing, with others, I have found that they don't make progress unless you (gently) force some physical attention.

I think to some extent, the no touch rule is pushed because feral cats can be unpredictable and lash out, so its for the safety of the person as much as the socialisation of the cat.

However, many people deal with ferals when they are brought in injured, it is often when they are caught because they are faster when not sick or injured and not as easily trapped, so lots of poeople have to handle feral cats. Not tending his wound could cause him some pain which will make him more fearful, but I would reward him for the attention with some wet food, treats, toys - whatever he prefers.

As far as ferals, 'real ferals' are generally classed as those who have had no human interaction at all, semi-feral cats are ones that have had interaction but have reverted to feral behaviour and then strays can be varying degrees of socialised too, even pets can
post #3 of 40
He is injured and his wounds need attention - that is the priority! It is amazing, as even true ferals will sometimes all of sudden become "tame" enough to get in a crate to get them to a vet, and stay inside and be cared for.... it's when they're feeling better you run into the "what should I do" dilemma.

I agree with Eithne - reward him with treats so it isn't only a "negative" thing... I also believe he knows you're caring for him.

The main idea in socializing a scared cat - whether feral or a formerly tame kitty that has reverted to feral ways - is to not interact with the kitties until they indicate they're ready for it, and that's something you have to just play by ear, really. The issue in socializing under-socialized or un-socialized kitties is all about trust - and when they first come inside, their entire world has been turned upside down - they're scared, everything smells and sounds strange - they have no idea what to expect. So the thinking behind not touching them or reaching out for them is just to give them their space, give them time to adjust, and let them associate you as being the one providing them food - and to establish that you don't want anything from them.

When they're sick and need care, they're sick and need care. Thankfully this guy lets you do what you need to do without complaining or hurting you, and that just reinforces for me that he understands you're helping him.
post #4 of 40
Sounds to me like things are going well and you are doing great with him.

Hurray for you for rescuing David and taking such good care of him! You are a Hero!

Welcome to TCS and please do keep us updated!
post #5 of 40
It is wonderful that you are doing all you can to help this poor guy, and it would seem from what you say that he knows it, even if he is terrified. Last year I was chasing a feral/stray out of my fields for weeks because he was terrorising my cats. It got so when he saw me he would run. Then one day he approached me and sat down near me as I was working outside. It had been in my mind to trap him and neuter him, so I sat down too and he got closer until I could touch him. Then I saw he had a very injured paw. I was able to take him to the vet and get him treated. I am certain he came to me for help despite his fear. Cats often know instinctively by your pheromones that you are there to do good, and I am sure your boy is no different. But right now I would not handle him more than necessary to treat him, and let him dictate the pace the rest of the time. Good luck.
post #6 of 40
David will have to recover fully, of course, before being eligible for his neuter surgery. But if he is enjoying a hearty appetite, the vet probably mentioned that being undernourished could very likely be due to worms (or some other feline disease) since nearly all feral and stray kittens have internal parasites that need a prescription medication to treat. How are his litter box habits ? Anything unusual in the stools ? It should cost about $10 to get a fecal float and deworming pills or shots to cure the problem is not expensive either. But cats are not able to gain weight or maintain a healthy weight until they get it.


Bless you for all your hard work and care ! It's painful and awful to see what humans will do to defenseless animals.
post #7 of 40
He may very well be a former pet who got lost or abandoned and adapted to living in the wild. That makes him "feral" but I think more easily re-tamed.

He may also just be weak and sick and therefore letting you help. Either way, you are an angel to help him and I agree with the others, he probably knows it. Sounds like you are doing all the right things.

Having said that, don't get complacent - handle him carefully and try to keep the rushing at him to a minimum

He may get a little fiestier as he feels better - but that's a good thing!
post #8 of 40
Don't even bother with the fecal float. If he wasn't treated with Revolution, he should be. We just assume cats outside have at least internal parasites if not visible external ones.
post #9 of 40
Thread Starter 
Thank you all for your welcome and comments.

I heard from the vet's office today that he does have worms. He got his first dose of Advantage at the vet's on Thursday for his ear mites and they told me it would also work on any worms he might have. They will do a follow up treatment when I bring him back for his booster shots.

He is eating everything I set out for him and drinking all his water so I am hoping that is a good sign.

Whoever mentioned his neuter surgery (sorry I forgot who that was) was correct. The vet said they would not consider doing it until he had gained some weight and his back wounds and abscesses had healed up.

On their overall fitness scale where 5 is the ideal weight etc - she placed him currently at just under a 3. I have worried a bit that once he is back to a healthy weight he may get seriously aggressive - but I will cross that bridge if and when I come to it.

I did review the new user section - but I just I must have not seen the area where I could share photos of my "kids"
post #10 of 40
I don't think you are actually doing "everything" wrong, or maybe "anything" wrong. I had a similar experience with a feral/stray cat at my work. I had been feeding her for several months. At first, she would run if she even saw me at the window looking at her.

I didn't have a lot of websites to go to when i found Elsa; I just had to go with what felt right. And I think that's what you've done. It felt right to pick him up when you took him to the vet. I had to take a very pregnant Elsa to the vet to make sure she was ok. I warned the vet she was "feral" and she did just fine. I brought her into my home that night. Five years ago tonight she had 8 kittens in my house, and she is a very loved and beautiful cat.

Well, I'm rambling, but I think you should trust your instincts. And you are such a hero to this kitty.
post #11 of 40
You can't not deal with his medical needs, so don't worry about whether it's OK to catch him--you have to do it. Since he tolerates your attention once you've got him, that's a good sign, at least.
post #12 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeylioness View Post
Whoever mentioned his neuter surgery (sorry I forgot who that was) was correct. The vet said they would not consider doing it until he had gained some weight and his back wounds and abscesses had healed up.
I'm surprised they even did the vaccines if his immune system is as stressed as you described. Ideally the cat is 100% healthy, then gets vaccines, then gets neutered. The reasoning is, he's healthy enough for vaccines he's healthy enough for surgery. On the other hand, there is no reason for it to *not* be done, other than it isn't ideal.


Quote:
I have worried a bit that once he is back to a healthy weight he may get seriously aggressive - but I will cross that bridge if and when I come to it.
In that case, you may need to find a spay and neuter clinic or a veterinarian that treats feral cats in your area. Be sure in the meanwhile David has plenty of scratching posts to sink his claws into and plenty of stuffed toys to attack. Keep his toe nails clipped short. LOL.
post #13 of 40
I wouldnt egnor him at all if he wants your company or lets you tend to his wounds , I would be loving and give all the attention he wants really, be his friend he must trust you so go with that and just help the baby out







Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeylioness View Post
I don’t want to take up too much space my first post, and I am not sure if there is an unwritten rule about post lengths. So I will just say that more detail about the cat I am asking advice on can be found on my website here http://honeylioness.proboards.com/in...lay&thread=152

The short version is that last week I was able to get into my home a stray cat I have been feeding for about a year who has a variety of scabs, scars, wounds, and abscesses from fighting to just barely survive on the streets. He has tested negative for FLV or FIV and got his shots last week for rabies and distemper along with treatment for his ear mites. I had been keeping him quarantined away from my other cats until I knew he was not going to spread any sort of contagion through the house.

The cat, David, never made a sound as he was put into the cat carrier, driven to the vets or while he was being examined and having blood drawn – which I found really strange. I have heard him mrowled late at night as if calling for unseen comrades still outside – but no sounds other than that.

He is incredibly underweight as evidenced by the prominence of his back bone and ribs but the vet said this is normal for a cat on the streets and suggested kitten food for now as it has more protein. He is currently sequestered while I am not home in my studio with a clean cat box and fresh food and water each morning and sometimes again at night.

Here is my question/dilemma –

I have been reading a lot in the last week about how to deal with feral/wild cats and I am wondering if I have, or am, doing everything wrong with David.

Much of what I have read says to not touch the cat, basically pretend to ignore him completely and let him come to you which could take weeks or months. However David has a large abscess on his back from whatever fight or accident he got into and the other night it burst. The vet and I had talked about it and she said if I was comfortable with doing what was necessary I should help it drain or help express any puss inside and then apply an antibiotic ointment to the area as his immune system was likely not as robust as it should be.

So I have been “catching†him once a day to tend to this wound. Which all I have read says is the worse thing you can do. He does occasionally hiss at me when I reach for him, but once I have him in my arms he is very quiet and makes not a sound, though I did detect a shiver from him. Would I be correct in assuming that rather than being docile he is actually terrified? And is my treating his wound only terrifying him more so that he will never relax around people?

I have never taken in a cat before where I had no idea of any past human interactions or experience and cannot determine if he is socialized or not. Of note he has not made any aggressive display towards any of the other cats who this weekend were allowed to wander into the office for brief visits.

What is the difference between a feral or a wild cat? Can one be a wild cat even if they were originally or at some point lived with a family? To me feral means they were born wild and have never had any positive contact with people at all. Anyways …..

Any comments or suggestions on how to balance the two – tending his wound versus ignoring him all together – would be appreciated.
post #14 of 40
As many have said, I think you're doing a great service to the cat by treating the wounds. If the kitty is letting you handle him to do this without lashing out, you're fine. He needs you to help him heal so don't feel bad. for him to get healthy soon under your excellent loving care.
post #15 of 40
Thread Starter 
I think we are done with the treatments for a little bit. Tonight when I was looking at his wound there was no drainage, the swelling has gone down and the edges are starting to get crystaline and there is a sort of soft skin or scab forming over the opening. All good signs that his immune system is working to finish the healing process. However he has not eaten as much today, but it may be because of stress.

Fingers crossed this is the last abscess to deal with and he can start settling down. Though I will confess that I feel bad in a way that he is all alone in the room all day while I am at work. But I am probably just projecting onto him as my other cats always want to be with me or each other.
post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeylioness View Post
I think we are done with the treatments for a little bit. Tonight when I was looking at his wound there was no drainage, the swelling has gone down and the edges are starting to get crystaline and there is a sort of soft skin or scab forming over the opening. All good signs that his immune system is working to finish the healing process. However he has not eaten as much today, but it may be because of stress.

Fingers crossed this is the last abscess to deal with and he can start settling down. Though I will confess that I feel bad in a way that he is all alone in the room all day while I am at work. But I am probably just projecting onto him as my other cats always want to be with me or each other.
You don't want that abscess to close up yet. I recommend you call the vet and mention that it is scabbing over. Abscesses have to heal from the inside out.

If it scabs over too soon it will not heal, and will re-abscess.

Is he still on antibiotics? Don't stop the antibiotics either, give the full course.

You're doing a terrific job, lucky kitty!
post #17 of 40
Thread Starter 
Well, it has been two weeks and I was wondering if it was normal that he still will not even poke his nose out of his "hiding place" when I am around. I try to spend at least a couple of hours each day in my office where he is holed up, being on the computer or working on a project. I talk to him when I come in and when I refresh his food and water but nothing yet.

I have not even tried to touch him or anything for the last week since the abscess started healing (at which point I took the opportunity to cut his nails as they were deadly). He hisses if he thinks I am getting too close, but the last time I had him out from under the bookcase he did as he always has - he gets very submissive and quiet.

Is it normal that he would still be so scared after two weeks? I am struggling with feeling as though he may be alone too much during the day and it is not good for him versus not wanting to traumatize him any further. When I was easing him out from hiding to treat the wound I was always careful to speak slow and calmly, never raised my voice and after I dealt with the "owie" I would gently croon to him and run just a fingertip along the top of his head a few times. And he never tried to bite me or lash out.

This cat is not acting like any other cat I have ever adopted or tried to help in the past and it has me flustered.
post #18 of 40
Two weeks is a very short time for a cat to adjust. Not all cats of course, but many do need much time to get used to things. Since he doens't require a lot of handling any more I recommend you keep on as you are, giving him your company as often as you can.

If you haven't yet, try spending some time each day sitting on the floor, at his level. Don't make eye contact at all. Just sit there and read aloud quietly, to give him a chance to get used to your presence, and to see that you are no threat to him.

Also, slip a shirt that you have slept in a couple of times under his food dishes, (with the side that touched your skin turned out) so he associates your scent with the food.
post #19 of 40
I forgot...did anyone mention music? Classical music if possible, and I've also heard cats like harp music quite a bit!
post #20 of 40
Two weeks is a short time for even a socialised cat to adjust to a new home, never mind an injured feral, don't give up hope
post #21 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeylioness View Post
Is it normal that he would still be so scared after two weeks? I am struggling with feeling as though he may be alone too much during the day and it is not good for him versus not wanting to traumatize him any further. When I was easing him out from hiding to treat the wound I was always careful to speak slow and calmly, never raised my voice and after I dealt with the "owie" I would gently croon to him and run just a fingertip along the top of his head a few times. And he never tried to bite me or lash out.

This cat is not acting like any other cat I have ever adopted or tried to help in the past and it has me flustered.
My Patches has been inside since November and she is still a scaredy kitty of me. She's getting much more confident in her surroundings and enjoying her toys now and things like that, but it's taking her some time to trust me. I think that's normal considering she was an adult feral.

I think things are going fine. It just takes time to gain trust.
post #22 of 40
Thread Starter 
I think there was a little bit of progress Monday night on the kitty front. I had come home after 9:00 pm and used the back door to enter my office/studio where David has been holed up. As soon as I flipped on the light I noticed a black lump sitting atop a small craft chest that stands windowsill high. This "lump" was crouched and looking outside - then turned his head, saw me and jumped down.

And he was not alone - I had left the door open that leads up to the main living level of the townhouse and my other three cats were also in the office at various places. Yet there was no hissing, no growling, no large clumps of fur littering the floor or bloody swipe marks across anyone's face - just curiousity on the part of the three veterans about this new arrival.

After I entered David did not immediately streak towards the underside of the bookcase, instead he hunkered down just at the far side of my desk - which stands in the middle of the room and functions also as a work surface. I very slowly walked to that side of the desk and hunkered down also so I would not be towering over him, crooning softly to him about what a brave boy he was and how nice it was to see him out and about - I also was able to see that the fur on his back is making rapid progress in growing back over the wounded areas.

He put up with that for a minute or two before slowly slinking back to his hiding place. Pausing every few steps to look and make sure I was not coming after him I think. Realising I had forgotten to put down food that morning I took his dishes upstairs and filled them both before going over to sit at my desk and turn on the television to catch the second half of one of my "shows". When what do I hear? A slurping sound.

Looking over I see David has left the hidey hole and is making quick work of the wet food I had left for him. Watching him eat you really notice his mouth issues as he pushes the food bits up against the edge of the bowl so he can use his lower jaw like a shovel to get it into his mouth - his compensation for his lack of front teeth. Every few bites he would look over at me as if to make sure I had not moved - I spoke quietly to him the entire time and when he was through he turned very slowly and headed back to his safe spot.

This is the first time he has willingly come out of hiding when I am in the room. I knew he came out at other times since the litter box is being used and I find things on the floor that did not start out there. And at night we do hear him mrowling .
post #23 of 40
Patience wins out! It sounds like he is adjusting.
post #24 of 40
great news
post #25 of 40
Thread Starter 
Yesterday I saw David make a big step ... actually several of them. I was taking a break from chores in my office and noticed out of the corner of my eye a dark shape slink past. David had left his hiding place and moved into then out of hte laundry room and then into the front hall. I waited a few minutes then quietly went to see just how far he had gone. The entry hall leads directly to the stiars leading to the second floor of the townhouse where the kitchen and dining room are. He had moved to the fifth step and was laying there ... just kind of looking around.

He sat there for about 10 minutes - two of my other cats had, during this time, gone up and down the stairs past david with no hissing or aggression. However when I did have to go back upstairs to get back to work he was not thrilled with that idea and hissed at me. I spoke to him softly and tried to just walk past him. But at that point he ran up a few more stairs and eventually up into the kitchen - which seemed to really disorient him. He wound up face to face with the three other cats and ran to hide under the dining room buffet. He was there about five minutes until he decided the coast was clear and ran back downstairs to his hiding place.

Today I didn't see him at all until his evening feeding. Guess he will need a few more days to recover from his encounter.
post #26 of 40
That braveness is fantastic!! Since he put himself out there and was being so brave, it's no surprise he hissed at you. No worries! And super fantastic the interaction with the other kitties was basically no reponse - that's awesome!!!!

Keep us posted!
post #27 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by killerapple View Post
That braveness is fantastic!! Since he put himself out there and was being so brave, it's no surprise he hissed at you. No worries! And super fantastic the interaction with the other kitties was basically no reponse - that's awesome!!!!

Keep us posted!
And, actually, the hissing is a good thing. It means he's feeling more confident in his space!
post #28 of 40
Oh, your little boy is doing great! It takes a lot of courage to go check out the world...The hiss was a good hiss. Can't wait to read more about him.
Marina
post #29 of 40
Thread Starter 
Thank you for the encouragement ... David really is the most challenging cat I have ever "adopted" - here is out latest saga

******************

Well, one step forward two steps back I guess. We had quite the melee last night.

My usual routine is to come home from work and re-set my brain from work mode to actually "working" mode by watching the BBC news and then Charlie Rose before I head upstairs to make dinner. When I come home I have been opening the door to the front hall so that the other cats can come in and say hello - or sometimes I will leave the door open and let the resident cats and David interact without me being there to referee.

As Anne had gone to a friend's house for dinner I was puttering around clearing off my desk, sorting paperwork etc as the news was on - and not really paying all that much attention to what the felines were up to. Until I heard The Noise .... that distinct sound of cat food tumbling down from a shelf. Looking over I see that my dominant female - Naomi - is standing on her hind feet and has knocked over the bag of kitten food I am feeding David at the moment to help him regain his weight. And little nuggets are raining down onto the carpet, into a magazine holder and a box of photos waiting to be sorted. I suppose this was Her Highness's way of telling me that HER dish upstairs was not sufficiently full.

So after feeding the clearly emaciated and starving kitties ...*RME* ... I headed back down stairs to do a preliminary cleaning of the spilled food.

It was almost 30 minutes later that I got wind of trouble brewing. This is what I surmise happened. It seems that kibble you have to pick out of the carpet or nuzzle out of a box of photos to retrieve is ever so much more delicious than what is in the food bowl. And apparently David was out to prove this point. However as he slowly grazed he was moving further and further into the center of the office and I think choosing to ignore the presence of the other three.

And then I heard the yowling - that sound is what first caught my attention, and it was not coming from David ... but from Jericho. My smallest and the last cat I adopted before David. After a couple of minutes it was clear Jericho was not willing to ratchet down the noise or back arching anytime soon, so standing to come around so I could see all of them I realized they had David outflanked in a way. Jericho at 2:00 o'clock, Tigger at 10 and Naomi at 6:00 o'clock.

When David saw me he let out a massive HISSSSSSSS and bolted to underneath one pedestal support of the desk - Jericho followed. So David dashed for the second support - Jericho mrowled and hissed as though we were being attacked by flying monkeys of something.

Deciding to intervene - especially in light of the fact that Jericho has no front claws and could really get hurt - I herded the three long timers out of the room and cautiously looked to where I though David was. Crouching down about four feet away I softly crooned to him that it was okay and he was all right .... but only get hissed at for my efforts. Deciding he had to understand that this was MY house (or at least I maintain that illusion for myself) I shrugged, rose and went to sit back down at the desk and finish going through the stack of papers I had been working on. David did growl a little when he thought I was getting too close .... but was quiet for long minutes before he slunk off and climbed up onto the bottom shelf of the bookcase to disappear.

See, he is not so much hiding "under" the bookcase as sort of "behind" it. The wall unit is a little over two feet deep and five feet long made up of slatted shelves. It sits against an outer wall and is not actually flush with the wall because there is a large sewer drain pipe that runs from the corner of the room about three feet before sloping into the foundation and tying into the main sewer line. And perched atop this pipe is where you are most likely to find David - the wall to one side, a wall behind him, and the edge of a storage container on his right that sits on the bottom shelf of the wall unit.

I gave him about a half hour to calm down a little then went over to give him his nightly allotment of canned food and freshen his water - and for my efforts was hissed at again ... though this one didn't really seem to have much conviction behind it. If, as I have been told, hissing is a good sign that he is feeling more comfortable in his space ... then this cat should be asking me tonight if he can have all his friends over and borrow the keys to my truck!

On the upside though - he did sit/lay for a while on the bottom shelf just watching me and where I could see him.

Now .... if I could just get him to stop pissing on the floor and do it in the litter box like he does to poop .... things would be SO much better (and better smelling as well)
post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeylioness View Post
Now .... if I could just get him to stop pissing on the floor and do it in the litter box like he does to poop .... things would be SO much better (and better smelling as well)
How many litter boxes do you have? Some kitties prefer to pee in one place and poop in another. Make sure you are using an enzymatic cleaner on those places he's peed on the floor to he doesn't smell the pee and continue to use it.
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