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Social Security

post #1 of 22
3/28/10 at 5:28pm
Thread Starter 
I heard on the radio today that this is the first year Social Security is paying out more than it is taking in. This ought to make everyone who pays into this system feel very secure about their retirement. We better pray hard for employment to increase so there will be more paid into this plan. My husband has been paying into Social Security for many years and still is. He is three years away from reaching his full retirement age. Will it be there for him and others. Maybe Congress will fix this or are they too busy dreaming up another plan. Sorry for the rant
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post #2 of 22
3/28/10 at 7:25pm
Was it Social Security or Medicare? I thought the latter, which is in worse shape than SS. This is happening 6 years earlier than expected; I suspect the down economy has something to do with that.
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post #3 of 22
3/28/10 at 8:22pm
Thread Starter 
I didn't hear anything about the Medicare. The report was on Social Security. When George Bush was president Social Security was solvent until 2026.
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post #4 of 22
3/28/10 at 8:37pm
I know this is also the first year SS did not get a cost of living increase. (My daughter gets SS b/c her biological father died) Normally it goes up a small amount every year, but we got a letter saying it would not increase this year.
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post #5 of 22
3/28/10 at 8:48pm
They've been borrowing from Peter to pay Paul for years with Social Security. When it was set up, the money that Paul paid into the system was supposed to be set aside into a separate ledger entry so it would be there when he retired. But since it was put into a "general fund" the politicians figured it was theirs to spend, and so even though Paul paid into the system for many many years "his" money had been spent as soon as it was in the system. So when Paul retired, they just used the money that Peter was paying into the system to pay Paul his Social Security.

That worked fine except that no one thought beyond their noses about the time when the Baby Boomers would be retiring en masse and there wouldn't be enough working "Peters" to pay all of the "Pauls" that were retiring and expecting their SS dollars that they had been paying for decades. So that's where we're at now. I think the economic slowdown may have had something to do with it too. There's a whole lot less Peters to pay into it right now than ever before.
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post #6 of 22
3/29/10 at 4:14am
It was Social Security as well
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/bu...ecurity&st=cse

I think that is the case in many countries right now, and as Heidi mentioned, it has been overbudget for years, they just hid it better with new money coming in
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post #7 of 22
3/29/10 at 6:03am
There was a lot of criticism of Bush's attempt to privatize a part of SS, but he at least understood something most people don't: SS funds, and the trust fund, are actually nothing but Treasury bonds. The government doesn't have the trillions of dollars they owe in a bank account anywhere. It was all spent to reduce the perceived deficit.

Had you been able to put some of your SS funds into a bank or stock fund, it would have taken a hit last year, but now it would be back up to where it was before the crash. And you would own it, with no claim on it from the government.
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post #8 of 22
3/29/10 at 6:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by marinewife05 View Post
I know this is also the first year SS did not get a cost of living increase. (My daughter gets SS b/c her biological father died) Normally it goes up a small amount every year, but we got a letter saying it would not increase this year.
You can collect SS if your father dies? Do you get it if your mother dies as well? That's pretty amazing. Both my biological parents have passed - would I get SS for both of them if I lived in the US?
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post #9 of 22
3/29/10 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
You can collect SS if your father dies? Do you get it if your mother dies as well? That's pretty amazing. Both my biological parents have passed - would I get SS for both of them if I lived in the US?
Only if you are under 18 and I believe it only goes until age 21 ... basically it = child support from a parent that is no longer here to support
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post #10 of 22
3/29/10 at 10:04am
Thread Starter 
When Social Security was first started it was only supposed to be temporary after the depression. I am not sure when Medicare was started. My thoughts are that in any other circumstances, people would be in trouble for misappropriation of funds. Since it was US Government, they thought they could dip their fingers in and nobody could do anything. Therefore Medicare and Social Security money is not there that was supposed to be there. These are two government run programs that the government has fouled up royally. What in the world makes anyone think the new health care deal will be any different. I believe they should be doing something to correct what they have fouled up instead of starting a new program that heaven only knows how it will turn out.
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post #11 of 22
3/29/10 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
They've been borrowing from Peter to pay Paul for years with Social Security. When it was set up, the money that Paul paid into the system was supposed to be set aside into a separate ledger entry so it would be there when he retired. But since it was put into a "general fund" the politicians figured it was theirs to spend, and so even though Paul paid into the system for many many years "his" money had been spent as soon as it was in the system. So when Paul retired, they just used the money that Peter was paying into the system to pay Paul his Social Security.

That worked fine except that no one thought beyond their noses about the time when the Baby Boomers would be retiring en masse and there wouldn't be enough working "Peters" to pay all of the "Pauls" that were retiring and expecting their SS dollars that they had been paying for decades. So that's where we're at now. I think the economic slowdown may have had something to do with it too. There's a whole lot less Peters to pay into it right now than ever before.
Is this why so many politicians seem to think "the more, the merrier?" meaning just let tons of people into the country and let our numbers grow from 308 million people to 320 million, then 330 million, etc.

In other words, "the more, the merrier". i hate "the more, the merrier"!! we need fewer people, not more!!!
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post #12 of 22
3/29/10 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by c1atsite View Post
Is this why so many politicians seem to think "the more, the merrier?" meaning just let tons of people into the country and let our numbers grow
Here's one of the dirty little secrets why there hasn't been (and likely won't be) a massive deportation, as was done several times in the past.

Hispanic illegals are very much into having children, and those children are the ones who will be working and paying our Social Security.
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post #13 of 22
3/29/10 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
Here's one of the dirty little secrets why there hasn't been (and likely won't be) a massive deportation, as was done several times in the past.

Hispanic illegals are very much into having children, and those children are the ones who will be working and paying our Social Security.
That's an interesting thought. Where I live it's too bad they're (meaning hispanic illegals) not into paying to feed, insure and educate those same kids at this point in time. You suppose it all works out?
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post #14 of 22
3/29/10 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder View Post
That's an interesting thought. Where I live it's too bad they're (meaning hispanic illegals) not into paying to feed, insure and educate those same kids at this point in time. You suppose it all works out?
It depends on where they are working. If they are working on any kind of social security or green cards or basically anything where the employer isn't bypassing the tax laws, they will be paying taxes including the Social Security taxes. I believe that they would only be able to collect the SS benefits if they become legal citizens (I could be wrong...heaven knows there are sillier clauses in the SS benefit administration!), so they would be paying into the system without taking out. It's pure income to the politicos, that's (one of the reasons) why they are all remiss to do anything about it right now especially.
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post #15 of 22
3/29/10 at 3:49pm
I thought that illegal aliens are paying into the SS system - they just aren't using their own numbers.
Quote:
"It's basically a subsidy from migrant workers to the aggregate of American taxpayers," said Douglas Massey, a professor of sociology at Princeton who studies Mexican migration, about the taxes paid to the government.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/04/wo...d.2688618.html
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post #16 of 22
3/29/10 at 5:29pm
Social Security TAX is capped at earning of $106,800 per year. So if we removed that cap and everyone was paying into SS at the rate of 6.2% on all earned income, wouldn't that help the situation as long as Congress keeps their grubby hands off it by not "borrowing" from the fund to cover other budget shortfalls?

FYI, Medicare has no such cap. All employees pay 1.45% of their earned income no matter how much they make.
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post #17 of 22
3/30/10 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
Here's one of the dirty little secrets why there hasn't been (and likely won't be) a massive deportation, as was done several times in the past.

Hispanic illegals are very much into having children, and those children are the ones who will be working and paying our Social Security.
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
It depends on where they are working. If they are working on any kind of social security or green cards or basically anything where the employer isn't bypassing the tax laws, they will be paying taxes including the Social Security taxes. I believe that they would only be able to collect the SS benefits if they become legal citizens (I could be wrong...heaven knows there are sillier clauses in the SS benefit administration!), so they would be paying into the system without taking out. It's pure income to the politicos, that's (one of the reasons) why they are all remiss to do anything about it right now especially.
Now it's all starting to make sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
Social Security TAX is capped at earning of $106,800 per year. So if we removed that cap and everyone was paying into SS at the rate of 6.2% on all earned income, wouldn't that help the situation as long as Congress keeps their grubby hands off it by not "borrowing" from the fund to cover other budget shortfalls?

FYI, Medicare has no such cap. All employees pay 1.45% of their earned income no matter how much they make.
Then SS should have the same rule. I wonder what the rationale was for the capping. Something like "Well-to-do folks would waive SS benefits out of the goodness of their hearts saying 'Here Uncle Sam, you keep this, really, I've got plenty and I really don't need this, Have a Nice Day' "? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. My own experience tells me that when someone's legally entitled to money, 99.99999% of the time they'll take it with much delight!
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post #18 of 22
3/30/10 at 9:01am
Thread Starter 
I have known of folks who have two identities, therefore two SS numbers. Maybe someone should have spent some dollars to clean up what needed cleaning up before embarking on another journey.
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post #19 of 22
3/31/10 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by c1atsite View Post
Then SS should have the same rule. I wonder what the rationale was for the capping. Something like "Well-to-do folks would waive SS benefits out of the goodness of their hearts saying 'Here Uncle Sam, you keep this, really, I've got plenty and I really don't need this, Have a Nice Day' "? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. My own experience tells me that when someone's legally entitled to money, 99.99999% of the time they'll take it with much delight!
The reason behind there being a cap on the SS tax is that people who make a certain $$ in their lifetime are not eligible to receive SS benefits. I think that does break down to $250,000/year currently. (That is why Obama used that number for not raising taxes. It actually wasn't just picked out of the air as what he thinks is too wealthy. ) So the logic is (OMG! Logic in Washington! ) that since they will never receive the benefits they shouldn't have to contribute, since it is kind of like a "retirement account" for the masses.
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post #20 of 22
3/31/10 at 10:40am
I was under the impression that the cap on SS taxes was raised in the Health Care bill. I'm not sure about that, though. It was just something I heard in passing. If so, it would be a tax hike on people earning less than $250,000, wouldn't it?

I suspect the goal of any immigration reform will be to get a solid ID and SS# for everyone, to remove the temptation to work illegals under the table.

By the way, I took a quick look around, and I can't find anything that indicated that SS was supposed to be temporary. In fact, it was touted as part of the "New Deal" that assured that the elderly would no longer be needy. Of course, the age of 65 came from the European socialist system (I'm thinking Bismark?), and it was chosen because at the time, the average life expectancy of Americans was only a few months more than 65.
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post #21 of 22
3/31/10 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
They've been borrowing from Peter to pay Paul for years with Social Security. When it was set up, the money that Paul paid into the system was supposed to be set aside into a separate ledger entry so it would be there when he retired. But since it was put into a "general fund" the politicians figured it was theirs to spend, and so even though Paul paid into the system for many many years "his" money had been spent as soon as it was in the system. So when Paul retired, they just used the money that Peter was paying into the system to pay Paul his Social Security.

That worked fine except that no one thought beyond their noses about the time when the Baby Boomers would be retiring en masse and there wouldn't be enough working "Peters" to pay all of the "Pauls" that were retiring and expecting their SS dollars that they had been paying for decades. So that's where we're at now. I think the economic slowdown may have had something to do with it too. There's a whole lot less Peters to pay into it right now than ever before.
Great explanation of how they they spent our money!! To bad none of them are in jail for ripping us off!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
You can collect SS if your father dies? Do you get it if your mother dies as well? That's pretty amazing. Both my biological parents have passed - would I get SS for both of them if I lived in the US?
Thats only if your a minor and your Mother or Father passed away. I think you can get it until your 22 birthday if your in School.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
When Social Security was first started it was only supposed to be temporary after the depression. I am not sure when Medicare was started. My thoughts are that in any other circumstances, people would be in trouble for misappropriation of funds. Since it was US Government, they thought they could dip their fingers in and nobody could do anything. Therefore Medicare and Social Security money is not there that was supposed to be there. These are two government run programs that the government has fouled up royally. What in the world makes anyone think the new health care deal will be any different. I believe they should be doing something to correct what they have fouled up instead of starting a new program that heaven only knows how it will turn out.
There is alot of pissed off people right now because of these politicians. They can only push and steal so much before the people start pushing back.
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post #22 of 22
3/31/10 at 7:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
There was a lot of criticism of Bush's attempt to privatize a part of SS, but he at least understood something most people don't: SS funds, and the trust fund, are actually nothing but Treasury bonds. The government doesn't have the trillions of dollars they owe in a bank account anywhere. It was all spent to reduce the perceived deficit.

Had you been able to put some of your SS funds into a bank or stock fund, it would have taken a hit last year, but now it would be back up to where it was before the crash. And you would own it, with no claim on it from the government.
Yes, I remember that, he tried to do that when he got re-elected in 2004. Democrats accused him of "fear mongering". Now here we are. The same thing happened when he wanted some regulations put on Fannie Mae and Freddi Mac and the Democrats had a fit and said Freddi and Fannie were doing just fine. Now here we are.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
You can collect SS if your father dies? Do you get it if your mother dies as well? That's pretty amazing. Both my biological parents have passed - would I get SS for both of them if I lived in the US?
A child whose father, has worked and paid into Social Security, dies is eligible to collect Social Security. If the mother had worked and paid into SS died I imagine it would be the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogmom View Post
I thought that illegal aliens are paying into the SS system - they just aren't using their own numbers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/04/wo...d.2688618.html
Many, MANY people that live here illegally work for cash, under the table, and do not pay taxes and do not pay into SS or Medicare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
Social Security TAX is capped at earning of $106,800 per year. So if we removed that cap and everyone was paying into SS at the rate of 6.2% on all earned income, wouldn't that help the situation as long as Congress keeps their grubby hands off it by not "borrowing" from the fund to cover other budget shortfalls?

FYI, Medicare has no such cap. All employees pay 1.45% of their earned income no matter how much they make.
I have said for years that the SS cap should be done away with.
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