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New Puppy Introduction Failure

post #1 of 51
3/25/10 at 8:44pm
Thread Starter 
Alright, so I was following the three page cat to dog intoductions perfectly. All the cats at first hissed then the next day they were all fine except luna. I was gone at college when the wife seriously messed up. She had the puppy out of her kennel and the kittens out of their room apparently everything was going fine until they both luna and the puppy went to beg over a treat from opposite sides of the room Unrestrained Luna threw a punch and the puppy growled teeth and gums and then chased after luna who got away and then she went after the other cats.

I was furious with her when she told me this and informed her that they would probably never get along and she started crying and took the puppy back. She has been balling all day and I really didnt expect her to take the puppy back. So now I am trying to fix this somehow. The puppy cost 1800$ and she is devastated since apparently a woman can become very attached to an animal in just two days.

I told her I would check here and maybe upon the catsite communitys input attempt to start over again. Hopefully your experience can guide us.

Thank you.
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post #2 of 51
3/25/10 at 8:51pm
Oh my, she took the puppy back?
Can you get the puppy back home?
Yes, you will need to start the introduction again, and be firm with it... Make sure to not hurry things up... Since they are young and this just happened in the very beginning, you should be able to correct by continuing the proper introduction... no problem...
I hope you can get your puppy back! Tell your wife thing will be ok.... Also make sure to concentrate the scent exchange specially on Luna, and give her lots of extra loving, so she feels safe...
Do you have Feliway diffusers around your house? If not, get some, and put around the house, especially around the places Luna hangs around the most. Make sure the kitties have places to hide - window sills, and if you can afford, a cat tree is great. Empty shelves are awesome too, as the puppy can not get that high. This way the kitties can get away anytime they get annoyed...
Big hugs to both of you
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post #3 of 51
3/25/10 at 9:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
Oh my, she took the puppy back?
Can you get the puppy back home?
Yes, you will need to start the introduction again, and be firm with it... Make sure to not hurry things up... Since they are young and this just happened in the very beginning, you should be able to correct by continuing the proper introduction... no problem...
I hope you can get your puppy back! Tell your wife thing will be ok.... Also make sure to concentrate the scent exchange specially on Luna, and give her lots of extra loving, so she feels safe...
I dont have any feliway, she is still crying keeps telling me she is not going to get sleep and how "retarded" and "stupid" she was and how she screwed everything up. She is really taking this hard and just your assurance should make her feel better.

I need feliway then, does petco carry it? That is the only dedicated petstore close besides petland (where the puppy came from) but I dont believe they have it.

Thanks a lot!
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post #4 of 51
3/25/10 at 9:14pm
Oh the poor thing... She was scared, and that's understandable... It can be quite overwhelming at times... But tell her to be patient, and all of you will survive...

Petco does carry, but instead of about $18, you will pay over $30-32... It's a lot more...

Do you think you can get the puppy back? I think Petland would carry feliway though... It is a very largely used cat product...

good luck tomorrow, please let us know how it goes - I'll be watching this thread!
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post #5 of 51
3/25/10 at 9:26pm
It might be for the best, at least at this point. Petland has a LONG history of selling puppies from horrible puppymills that end up with terrible genetic issues later in life (Google it for more info). For $1800 you can buy a fine healthy puppy from a VERY good breeder that does genetic screenings. So if she can't get the puppy back, consider it a dodged bullet for you......
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post #6 of 51
3/25/10 at 9:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willowy View Post
It might be for the best, at least at this point. Petland has a LONG history of selling puppies from horrible puppymills that end up with terrible genetic issues later in life (Google it for more info). For $1800 you can buy a fine healthy puppy from a VERY good breeder that does genetic screenings. So if she can't get the puppy back, consider it a dodged bullet for you......
Yea I HATE petland it's the worst pet store ever. Tabi was a kennel tech there for 3 years and she knows the owner really well. Without going into details she is getting the petland puppy with all shots, vet care etc for 150$ Petland doesnt pay squat for the puppys from the breeders and they charge a couple thousand more...

She is very worried that she may not get the puppy back now. She is planning on calling them at 8AM.
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post #7 of 51
3/25/10 at 9:35pm
I think it is for the best also.
That is a puppy mill place.
I bet you were charged way to much for the puppy also.
Even with knowing the owner well she still might end up with a sick dog.


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post #8 of 51
3/25/10 at 9:41pm
Ok, so... the story is the Normal cost, for everybody else is $1,800 but your wife is getting the puppy for $150, all included, vet care and such...
And the problem is, she is already attached to the puppy.
Alright...
I was a little crushed when you said Petland, but... what is done is done, and as the way I see it, it is your wife's baby now, at least that is how I think she feels, for the way you are describing what she is going through there.

The petstore issue is very complicated.... I am glad you are aware of it. Make sure you put that puppy immediately under a good health insurance plan, in case it does have issues though - better safe than sorry...
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post #9 of 51
3/25/10 at 10:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
Ok, so... the story is the Normal cost, for everybody else is $1,800 but your wife is getting the puppy for $150, all included, vet care and such...
And the problem is, she is already attached to the puppy.
Alright...
I was a little crushed when you said Petland, but... what is done is done, and as the way I see it, it is your wife's baby now, at least that is how I think she feels, for the way you are describing what she is going through there.

The petstore issue is very complicated.... I am glad you are aware of it. Make sure you put that puppy immediately under a good health insurance plan, in case it does have issues though - better safe than sorry...
That and it's a Shibo which is a mix between Eskimo(Mother) x Shiba Inu(Father) It looks like a little fox, very cute puppy. I am not giving up my blue eyed Siamese mixed kitten which at first Tabi was blaming everything on but I told her she was acting silly and I am sure she knows it. And also if you dont know we have a Husky that gets along with everyone perfectly fine.

Also we have a lot of experience with petland and we know their vet service that you get for like 2 years with purchase is garbage. We took a 1yr old kitten there that had a cough and long story short she died at the vet two weeks later. It was determined to be the vets fault and we got out of the bill which was pretty high since they had the animal for two weeks and she was on the wrong antibiotics the whole time. Something that vet told us was nothing was misdiagnosed and she died. If the right medicine had been used she would have been better in two days if caught early enough.
Tabi was devistated over that one aswell. It was one of those cats that are literally inseperable from you and spend 24/7 with you if possible.

Anyways I have school in eight hours, I will let you all know what happens.
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post #10 of 51
3/25/10 at 10:14pm
Just because she's getting the puppy cheap doesn't mean it will be healthy and you might end up with huge vet bills in the future.....Eskies especially are prone to all kinds of genetic illnesses. Just saying. You'd be better off buying a well-bred pup from a caring breeder.

Hope it all works out for you!
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post #11 of 51
3/25/10 at 10:18pm
:vi bes:
For the best to happen.... no matter what it is... and yes, don't give up on your little girl !!! of course not!
Keep us up to date...
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post #12 of 51
3/26/10 at 7:02am
Thread Starter 
Well she was up all night and called the very second of 7AM and she went and got the puppy around 8AM. I told her to keep them all seperated for now and I am getting her a printout of the introduction guide so if she is in doubt while I am gone she has that to look to.

Hopefully the third wave of introductions goes better, she has to stop all this crying!

When going to print I noticed everything in print preview to be less than desirable. I am a Digital Media Specialist (graduate in 5 weeks) whom do I talk to about recommending a print.css stylesheet to make people who print off articles from the site a lot happier.
To explain what I am talking about check out a link to one of my websites I made and click the print preview. http://playerswichita.com/coupons.html

I dont normally post links on others website but since this is a restaurant link vs a cat forums I think it may be permissable
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post #13 of 51
3/26/10 at 10:21am
Since Luna is the pet with the issues treat this like a cat to cat introduction instead of a cat to dog introduction.

It is really important to find Luna's favorite reward/treat and the only time she gets this is during counter conditioning to the pup.

Since your sweetie is the one who is home with the pets sit down with her and discuss the cat to cat introduction protocols. Try to appease her and get her to calm down. If the caretakeer is all tense the animals will be tense.
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post #14 of 51
3/26/10 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spywell View Post
Well she was up all night and called the very second of 7AM and she went and got the puppy around 8AM. I told her to keep them all seperated for now and I am getting her a printout of the introduction guide so if she is in doubt while I am gone she has that to look to.

Hopefully the third wave of introductions goes better, she has to stop all this crying!

When going to print I noticed everything in print preview to be less than desirable. I am a Digital Media Specialist (graduate in 5 weeks) whom do I talk to about recommending a print.css stylesheet to make people who print off articles from the site a lot happier.
To explain what I am talking about check out a link to one of my websites I made and click the print preview. http://playerswichita.com/coupons.html

I dont normally post links on others website but since this is a restaurant link vs a cat forums I think it may be permissable
You talk to Anne, you can send her a PM...
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post #15 of 51
3/26/10 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
You talk to Anne, you can send her a PM...
Actually reading the rules would also be a good way ... It is in plain English...

Very nice site IMHO
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post #16 of 51
3/26/10 at 11:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Actually reading the rules would also be a good way ... It is in plain English...

Very nice site IMHO
Hmm looked everywhere for the "rules" and didn't find them, maybe you should shoot me a link.

Besides that, I think the site could use a few tweaks especially since it has 77 errors in the coding IMHO.


Anyways, got the puppy back and the introductions went very well today. Kept her on one side of the room laying down and the cats were sniffing her bedding etc.

About an hour ago we had a confrontation. I had the puppy crate in the corner of the living room. I told Tabi we are suppose to kennel her in the other room away from all the cats but we were tired after riding atv's all night. I spent some time in there and everything was going extremely well. All three cats came over and plopped down right infront of the cage. Seeing how everything was fine the cats finally dispearsed and I felt confident that she could stay there overnight. As soon as I left the room she started barking, snarling and trying to get at the cats. Although weary I moved the kennel into the other room away from any cat interactions.

All day I thought we were making such good progress but this last hour slightly worries me. I have a feeling that the puppy is very scared of the cats that she thinks could attack her at any moment. Rest assured from now on all interactions will be in a very controlled environment.
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post #17 of 51
3/26/10 at 11:12pm
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15184
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post #18 of 51
3/26/10 at 11:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by spywell View Post
Hmm looked everywhere for the "rules" and didn't find them, maybe you should shoot me a link.

Besides that, I think the site could use a few tweaks especially since it has 77 errors in the coding IMHO.


Anyways, got the puppy back and the introductions went very well today. Kept her on one side of the room laying down and the cats were sniffing her bedding etc.

About an hour ago we had a confrontation. I had the puppy crate in the corner of the living room. I told Tabi we are suppose to kennel her in the other room away from all the cats but we were tired after riding atv's all night. I spent some time in there and everything was going extremely well. All three cats came over and plopped down right infront of the cage. Seeing how everything was fine the cats finally dispearsed and I felt confident that she could stay there overnight. As soon as I left the room she started barking, snarling and trying to get at the cats. Although weary I moved the kennel into the other room away from any cat interactions.

All day I thought we were making such good progress but this last hour slightly worries me. I have a feeling that the puppy is very scared of the cats that she thinks could attack her at any moment. Rest assured from now on all interactions will be in a very controlled environment.
You need to keep the puppy in another room entirely for a while - do you have another room? Out of sight? It is not time to let them see each other yet... Introductions are not done in one day - it can take days, it can take a week, it can take weekS. You guys need to take a deep breath, and slow down...

Did you get Feliway?
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post #19 of 51
3/27/10 at 12:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
You need to keep the puppy in another room entirely for a while - do you have another room? Out of sight? It is not time to let them see each other yet... Introductions are not done in one day - it can take days, it can take a week, it can take weekS. You guys need to take a deep breath, and slow down...

Did you get Feliway?
She got a bunch of stuff but missed the feliway. We have a 2bed 2 bath house and one bedroom is entirely the cats room. I installed a cat door and it is a cat only room, they are safe there.
The master bathroom is a storage room atm, everything was removed including the toilet sink and counters so it's just a blank carpeted room now and we are kenneling the puppy in there.

I just figured it was already time for introductions since technically this is the third day. We have been doing scent swapping since day one and it has been doing very well. Luna seems the most intrigued by the smells and stays much longer than the other cats. Also tonight the puppy was rubbing her nose all over the scent comforter. I thought she was scratching her nose at first but the odd behavior persued. To describe it she was sniffing the comforter and then pushing (with her nose) the comforter into the corner of the large kennel. The comforter came fram the salvation army and our husky Mick has used it for a long time as a bed. The cats also lay on this very often and now so is Lucy. Infact she is sleeping quietly on it now.
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post #20 of 51
3/27/10 at 12:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spywell View Post
She got a bunch of stuff but missed the feliway. We have a 2bed 2 bath house and one bedroom is entirely the cats room. I installed a cat door and it is a cat only room, they are safe there.
The master bathroom is a storage room atm, everything was removed including the toilet sink and counters so it's just a blank carpeted room now and we are kenneling the puppy in there.

I just figured it was already time for introductions since technically this is the third day. We have been doing scent swapping since day one and it has been doing very well. Luna seems the most intrigued by the smells and stays much longer than the other cats. Also tonight the puppy was rubbing her nose all over the scent comforter. I thought she was scratching her nose at first but the odd behavior persued. To describe it she was sniffing the comforter and then pushing (with her nose) the comforter into the corner of the large kennel. The comforter came fram the salvation army and our husky Mick has used it for a long time as a bed. The cats also lay on this very often and now so is Lucy. Infact she is sleeping quietly on it now.
You need to play it by ear...
Also, today is not really the third day... The introduction was not done correctly as per your post, the puppy was returned to Petland, and came back this morning, so today is really the first day. Yep, it starts all over...
There is no written in stone... If Luna is having trouble, you need to go slower.
Feliway will help a lot, I highly recommend having that...
I would keep them completely separated and keep doing the introduction very slowly. Keep working on the scent exchange.

Also do a scent exchange with a rag to put under the food dishes - are you doing that too? Or only with the sleeping blankets? Get a rag, and rub all over the puppy, especially on the face, but on the body too. Rub it rub it well - fold it and put it under the cats food dishes.

Do the same thing with Luna and the other kitties - rub a rag on their faces - cheeks and in between their ears, and also along their bodies... When you feed the puppy, fold the rag and put that under the food dish.
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post #21 of 51
3/27/10 at 12:44am
Ok, I am going to bed now... Remember this: Often times the way you introduce your kittens/puppies kittens and puppies can affect their relationship for life... This means many many years in their future...
You have the space, you have the time... Be patient, and everything will end up well.
This is only a few days or a week that will make a difference in many years to come... Do not hurry...
Yes, there are pets that immediately will take one to another... There are others that take a loooooong time.... Some will never get along... What you want is the best outcome possible.
I know you are eager to have a normal life with all of them, and that is understandable, but there is no reason to hurry... We will help you to get there... Just take take a step back, a deep breath, and be patient... All will be fine...
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post #22 of 51
3/27/10 at 12:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
You need to play it by ear...
Also, today is not really the third day... The introduction was not done correctly as per your post, the puppy was returned to Petland, and came back this morning, so today is really the first day. Yep, it starts all over...
There is no written in stone... If Luna is having trouble, you need to go slower.
Feliway will help a lot, I highly recommend having that...
I would keep them completely separated and keep doing the introduction very slowly. Keep working on the scent exchange.

Also do a scent exchange with a rag to put under the food dishes - are you doing that too? Or only with the sleeping blankets? Get a rag, and rub all over the puppy, especially on the face, but on the body too. Rub it rub it well - fold it and put it under the cats food dishes.

Do the same thing with Luna and the other kitties - rub a rag on their faces - cheeks and in between their ears, and also along their bodies... When you feed the puppy, fold the rag and put that under the food dish.
Yes we started off with a rag but I never thought to put it under their food dishes. I will try that and I guess make another special trip to Petco for feliway.
Starting over with potential is better than giving up.
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post #23 of 51
3/27/10 at 12:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spywell View Post
Yes we started off with a rag but I never thought to put it under their food dishes. I will try that and I guess make another special trip to Petco for feliway.
Starting over with potential is better than giving up.
Don't give up!!!
You will be fine! That's just how it is though... You need to start over... Sometimes you need to introduce them after boarding, after surgery... It happens...
Anyways, yes, get the feliway - it will help a lot.
The idea of the rag under the food dish is to associate the scent with good things... Nothing better for a cat, or a dog than food!
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post #24 of 51
3/27/10 at 9:44am
I agree DO NOT give up.... And take it slow... I actually take 3-4 weeks to intro cat to cat .. and so far my cat and dog intros not one has failed if given time( yes some dogs are never fully trusted alone but puppy s are normally not that way )
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post #25 of 51
3/27/10 at 10:34am
Thread Starter 
Received a curve ball this morning. Lucy (the puppy) went into heat. Is it a good idea to hold off introductions? Now I have to keep her separated from Mick and the cats.
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post #26 of 51
3/27/10 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spywell View Post
Received a curve ball this morning. Lucy (the puppy) went into heat. Is it a good idea to hold off introductions? Now I have to keep her separated from Mick and the cats.
How old is this puppy? Who is Mick? Are you saying you have an intact dog at your house? Besides the puppy?
By the way, what about the cats? Are the spayed/neutered?

Keep working on the introduction - as we said, this is not a one, two day thing. Just keep working on it - yes, they are separated anyways during the introduction, so I am not sure what the heat has to do with anything. Just one more reason to take things slowly and keep them separated (from the intact DOG, especially, in this case... please please please don't breed them!!)

Please get this puppy and any other intact animal spayed and neutered ASAP.
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post #27 of 51
3/27/10 at 2:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
How old is this puppy? Who is Mick? Are you saying you have an intact dog at your house? Besides the puppy?
By the way, what about the cats? Are the spayed/neutered?

Keep working on the introduction - as we said, this is not a one, two day thing. Just keep working on it - yes, they are separated anyways during the introduction, so I am not sure what the heat has to do with anything. Just one more reason to take things slowly and keep them separated (from the intact DOG, especially, in this case... please please please don't breed them!!)

Please get this puppy and any other intact animal spayed and neutered ASAP.
Mick is our Husky, and as I was reading female puppys can go into heat as soon as 6 months. Mick was going to get fixed this week but we are holding off until next week. In the mean time Lucy is in doggy diapers and Mick will be kept outside until next week. Our older cat is spayed and declawed and Tabi plans to do the same thing to the two kittens at the same time (next week) I really really dont want her to declaw my cat and we have already had a few arguments about it. We dont really have a problem with them scratching any of the furniture anyways.
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post #28 of 51
3/27/10 at 4:16pm
I am sorry but Petland is a horrible place to get a puppy.
If you are keeping the puppy, be prepared for potential health and temperament problems as your puppy grows. Please please get into a puppy training class ASAP as puppies from pet stores tend to have issues with socialization, so they need a lot of socialization (such as through puppy kindergarten) to make up from what they missed.
Here is a good link to socialization info:
http://www.dogscouts.org/How_to_socialize.html
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post #29 of 51
3/27/10 at 4:16pm
Wow, I really think you two need to SLOW down and think some things through and get on the same page about your pet situation. Between giving away and taking back, and heats, and neuters and crying wives and plans to amputate kitten toes...it's hard to keep up with things. And if you all are arguing so much about pet care, seems things are a bit out of balance in your home.

Please take some time to consider what you all are doing!

C
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post #30 of 51
3/27/10 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by spywell View Post
Mick is our Husky, and as I was reading female puppys can go into heat as soon as 6 months. Mick was going to get fixed this week but we are holding off until next week. In the mean time Lucy is in doggy diapers and Mick will be kept outside until next week.
Even after neutered, it is important you keep them seperated until you have Lucy spayed. If she's 6 months old, you can do is ASAP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spywell View Post
I really really dont want her to declaw my cat and we have already had a few arguments about it. We dont really have a problem with them scratching any of the furniture anyways.
The official stance of TCS is that declawing is inhumane. You won't find anyone who supports it here. Before declawing, please read this thread Bea begs you to never declaw. A surgery done for the convenience of Bea's owner quite literally ruined her life. And more links on declawing:
More info on declawing
Pics of a declawing procedure - GRAPHIC!

Soft Paws - an alternative to declawing


Quoting the rules:

Quote:
3. This website considers declawing a drastic way to curb cat behavior. A painful ordeal for your kitty we would suggest that declawing never be considered for any behavioral issue. Health issues are entirely different. It is up to you as a responsible pet owner to explore all the different options available instead of declawing. Your cat is dependant on you to make wise choices for her, and not put her into any more stress or discomfort. Please be a responsible pet owner and research this subject thoroughly. Understand that if you are pro-declaw in your posts, you will encounter opposition. Please learn more about alternatives for declawing here in our forums as well as on our website itself. Declaw - More than Just a Manicure. Hopefully those of you with claw-related problems will find solutions by spending time in our Behavior Forum.
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