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Customer service!

post #1 of 64
3/21/10 at 7:13am
Thread Starter 
In another thread, the subject of customer service has come up. Some have accused Wal-Mart and other large retailers of running small businesses out of business. That's just not true. However, we had two experiences this week that show why small businesses put themselves out of business, without blaming it on Wal-Mart.

Dottie has 4 sewing machines. Yeah, I know, but it just kind of happened. One's an antique she got from her mother. Another is an old Sears machine in its own table. And two are inexpensive ones we've gotten from the pawn shop.

Anyway, a local sewing shop advertised a special on a clean, lube, and adjustment for sewing machines, so Dottie took in the old Sears machine. It's now been 2 weeks since she took it in, so she called the shop to see when it would be ready. Turns out they haven't even started on it; supposedly, the mechanic has been out sick part of that time. Too bad they didn't call and let her know, right?

Also about 3 weeks ago, Dottie wanted to get an eye exam and new glasses. She called up the local doctor we used to use, because he takes the vision insurance we have. They couldn't get her in until the next week. When she got in, she had the exam and picked out some glasses. $180, even with the insurance. They said they'd take about a week to be ready. That was over two weeks ago. This week she called to see if they had her glasses. They weren't in, so they called their supplier. The frames are on back order until next month! They hadn't checked, hadn't called, nothing. Last year when she got new glasses, she went to Wal-Mart's optometrist, no appointment, just walked in and got an exam (and a better exam, it must be said). She walked out with her prescription and went to Lenscrafters. Handed them the prescription, picked out two frames, paid them $180 (interesting number, huh?), and two hours later she had both pairs ready, including tinting one pair for sunglasses.

Now...who is earning their money in this instance? Who had customer service? Both businesses could have at least forestalled some of our anger just by following up, but I guess they have too much business to care. So fooey on them. Let them starve. I'll have Dottie get a refund of her money from the doctor's office and go to Lenscrafters again. And I doubt she'll be taking the other three sewing machines in any time soon for a "special" tune-up.
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post #2 of 64
3/21/10 at 7:28am
Small businesses can be swamped by ads that promise things the workers there just can't handle. Been there done that by the owners of the shop not caring they do not have the staff to handle such things. Oh, they showed up to yell and boss us around, but actual work, nope, they had gone beyond that and just saw potential $$$$$$, at the workers sake.
Training was a joke at best, not enough people to take up the slack while one is pretty much out of the loop trying to train and do thier job.
I hate, hate big business, worker bees treated like nothing more than cogs in a giant conglam wheel of money hungry greed with no care to the people working that wheel.
I have completley lost my train of thought, sorry for the tread hijack, but darn, that felt good!
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post #3 of 64
3/21/10 at 7:30am
Thread Starter 
No, both of these are mom-and-pop style business in which the mom and pop actually work on a daily basis.

Nice rant, but it doesn't apply here.
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post #4 of 64
3/21/10 at 7:57am
A lot of small businesses have been forced to cut back their staff to the bare minimum so one person is doing the job that 3 people used to do. That happened to me after 9/11 when I was working in retail dealing with special orders and purchasing. Suddenly, I was the only person doing everything and it was VERY stressful. Some things did fall through the cracks I'm sorry to say. Not an excuse, but a reason.

Also, when it comes to price, small businesses can't get the bulk discount big chains like Wal-mart and Lenscrafter can get. If you can order 3000 pair of frames and spread them out over 100 stores of course they will cost less a piece so you can sell them for less and still make a profit.

To me, good customer service isn't necessarily about how fast or how cheap you can get something, it's more about how mistakes and mess ups are handled once discovered. I still prefer going to a small business where people know me and ask how my family and wait a little longer for items than go to a chain where they don't know me from Adam and don't really care.
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post #5 of 64
3/21/10 at 9:08am
Im extremely picky about customer service and mostly thats just because Ive been a waitress for many years. I was always one that went out of my way to remember regulars and make my own regulars by just remembering little stuff about all of them and asking. Even remembering what they liked to drink made a big difference. The only place in my area that I enjoy shopping at because of their customer service is Coles. We went there today and were asked by about 4 different employees if we needed help two of them then ended up carrying big boxes of stuff we got to the register for us and helping load the car. It was a really enjoyable experiance because they didnt seem so "ho hum whoa is me" type stuff it was really happy and pleasant service.
I hate going to Wal-Mart sometimes because if Im going for something and cant find what Im looking for you can never find an employee to ask for help or if you do find one they dont know the department and play dumb. It drives me nuts. Even going to Michaels people there are supposed to know about the crafts in the department they are in and heaven forbid I find someone that knows anything about crocheting and the different brands of yarn. Ive gotten more help from the customers there than the employees. When I go shopping anymore I make my list and dont bother asking anyone for anything Id rather wander around looking than hope to find someone who knows what they are talking about. Even going out to eat would be a chore because I get so irritated and disgusted with other waitresses. I know that they are busy but in all honestly being a waitress isnt that difficult if you have the right mind set for it and get a good routine going its really easy and really easy to give your customers good service and make sure their orders are correct...plus it helps to follow my rule "Dont serve anything you wouldnt eat yourself!"


Ok rant over LOL!!!! Go figure Ive still got probably two days of taking BF around shopping which Ill get stuck doing most of it because he has less patience than me in those circumstances!
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post #6 of 64
3/21/10 at 4:12pm
I do agree with some of the above points that small businesses have definitely cut to the bare minimum amount of employees, and the pawn shop may have been overwhelmed with the responses. Especially if the maintenance guy was out sick for a full week. Individual eye-care practices have to send out for their glass cutting/grinding and their frames, generally making an order once a week to get even the smallest bulk discount.

Does this excuse either of these businesses for their lack of customer service in at least keeping people appraised of the situations? No, but it does explain them. And the lack of employee help does explain why they didn't call every person whose order would be late.

Frankly, I have a whole lot more of an issue with "customer service" that outsources all of their call centers out-of-country to places that hire people who cannot understand English and can't answer any question that doesn't follow their script. Especially true if they are tech-support where problems rarely follow their script. Mike, with both of those small businesses, were the people who answered the phone able to understand your problem and give you an explanation that you could understand? If that's the case, I have much less animosity toward them than other big companies who can't do the same.
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post #7 of 64
3/21/10 at 7:26pm
They have started to move outsourced call centers back to Canada recently after getting so many complaints, and one that is still outsourced starts with a recorded message that you can ask to be redirected to a native English speaking agent at any time by asking the agent
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post #8 of 64
3/21/10 at 7:33pm
Thread Starter 
Well, my real point is that we went out of our way to use local business, and the businesses could very well have made us happy, but didn't even bother to try.
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post #9 of 64
3/21/10 at 7:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
Well, my real point is that we went out of our way to use local business, and the businesses could very well have made us happy, but didn't even bother to try.
I normally try the little guy when able but about 60% of them here have lousy customer service
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post #10 of 64
3/21/10 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
They have started to move outsourced call centers back to Canada recently after getting so many complaints, and one that is still outsourced starts with a recorded message that you can ask to be redirected to a native English speaking agent at any time by asking the agent
Unfortunately I have to deal with one of the companies that uses non-English speaking people (who insist their names are "Jason" or "Jennifer" ) for a piece of proprietary software as the IT professional at work. The software is a pain to work with, and it takes up to 6 CS calls to get anything answered because we can't understand them if they do have an inclination of what they are doing with this software, or they just keep repeating what the page in their script says (you can literally hear them turning the pages). I would be THRILLED if their call center were moved to Canada, and if we could request to speak to a native English speaking agent!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
Well, my real point is that we went out of our way to use local business, and the businesses could very well have made us happy, but didn't even bother to try.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
I normally try the little guy when able but about 60% of them here have lousy customer service
In our industry (engineering) what we are seeing is that this economy is squeezing out the companies that either don't produce quality product in either design or construction, or don't play well with others. If people stop patronizing the 60% (using sharky's number) that have lousy customer service, then the 40% of the small businesses with thrive and grow while the 60% fall by the wayside. My boss said that it's almost like a big market correction, weeding out the ones who really have no business being in business anyway.
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post #11 of 64
3/21/10 at 9:10pm
It's simple to me. If I shop/use a smaller business and the people there are rude and unhelpful, I don't go back. Often because it can't be even be blamed on a single bad employee - instead you get to deal with a rude owner.

I've had the same problem, I'll be told that someone will get back to me that week and I have to be the one to call the following week. It would be different if I were told "we'll try to get back to you this week or next" instead of a promise that isn't honored.
The basic thing is, if you can't do it then don't say that you will and if something comes up let your customer know. You can't make money if you alienate customers and the only thing to rely on anymore is customer loyalty.


O/T But the last place I worked did lose a lot of customers due to employee rudeness (and the company doing it's best to trick people). I was working one day with my boss when one of the customers finally had it and snapped calling my boss on her rudeness. It was very amusing till the person pointed at me and said "she's one of the few nice ones that work here" as that made me a captive outlet for my bosses anger later.
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post #12 of 64
3/22/10 at 4:27am
Thread Starter 
When I was an assistant manager at a real estate office, we had just a few rules. One was that our agents returned every call by the end of business, even if it was to say that they didn't have an answer yet. The other was that no one stayed on hold more than 15 seconds. Research has shown that it takes only 17 seconds for someone on hold to change from a positive attitude to a hostile attitude.
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post #13 of 64
3/22/10 at 5:06am
I have a pretty good example of lousy customer service by a small business, versus great customer service by a big business.

For many years I have been buying tires for our cars online through The Tire Rack. I have never had a problem and they have always been great about keeping me updated on my order and promptly shipping the tires.

Last month I decided to give the "little guy" a chance and put my money into our community instead of going with the sure thing. I knew I'd be paying more, but figured it's important to keep these small outfits running in our small town.

After reading great reviews online about a truck tire I was interested in, I went down to the local tire shop and inquired on availablity. I was told, not in stock but they could get them for me from a distributor. It would take 4 days or so for them to come in. I left all 3 of my phone numbers and was assured I would be called the moment they arrived.
Cool!
9 days go by with no phone call. So, I call to inquire, end up talking to the same guy that took my order. At first he has no recollection of my existance, but after some prodding and reminders about which tire I ordered, he finally recalls and tells me that, yes the tires were here, but he sold them to a guy who walked in saw them and wanted to buy them. Just like that, no apology, nothing.
Not willing to throw in the towel yet, I asked him to order another set, just for me this time.
A week goes by, no call. I call, ask for the guy by name and inquire. He puts me on hold, I assume to take time to figure out exactly who I am again.
Once he gets back on the phone he fumbles around with an excuse about how his distributor forgot to send the tires to him, but that he will have them in 3 days.......guaranteed.
5 days later I get the call....."your tires are in!"

I make an appointment for 7 am to drop my truck off and tell the guy I have to have this truck back before noon, because I have a job that afternoon.
No problem he says, I'll call you as soon as it's ready, shouldn't be more than 2 hours.
11 AM, still no call, so I call. I get...."yes, sir, your truck is finished, we had it done at 8 AM"

Guess who's getting my business back next time I need tires again?
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post #14 of 64
3/22/10 at 6:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
The other was that no one stayed on hold more than 15 seconds. Research has shown that it takes only 17 seconds for someone on hold to change from a positive attitude to a hostile attitude.
A nice idea unless you have 4 very busy phone lines and only 2 people to answer them. When I worked at a corporate owned vet practice according to them we didn't make enough money to justify more front staff, yet we were almost always busy to the point of exhaustion. Of course people will call with their problems, which we as receptionists weren't allowed to answer (no medical advice over the phone, which is sound advice). But they'd always call to check before shelling out a $45 office call just to be seen by a vet plus whatever tests etc... the doctor wanted to do.
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post #15 of 64
3/22/10 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
When I was an assistant manager at a real estate office, we had just a few rules. One was that our agents returned every call by the end of business, even if it was to say that they didn't have an answer yet. The other was that no one stayed on hold more than 15 seconds. Research has shown that it takes only 17 seconds for someone on hold to change from a positive attitude to a hostile attitude.
We had that rule somewhere I worked, every single one of the 'lower employees' returned their calls, the managers - not so much, then we would have to deal with the POed customers the next day when we had bumped their call up to a manager who didn't do anything. We would complain to the boss, guess who still works there and who doesn't- management need to care too?
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post #16 of 64
3/22/10 at 7:31am
Rule #1. NEVER tell the client the person they've been trying reach all day is playing golf. They are on appointment. (with Mr. Green)

And no, I'm not making this up.
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post #17 of 64
3/22/10 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder View Post
Rule #1. NEVER tell the client the person they've been trying reach all day is playing golf. They are on appointment. (with Mr. Green)

And no, I'm not making this up.
Or that they are sitting in their office staring at the wall doing absolutely nothing rather than calling them back
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post #18 of 64
3/22/10 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
Research has shown that it takes only 17 seconds for someone on hold to change from a positive attitude to a hostile attitude.
Probably the hold music. I don't mind being on hold for a few minutes if I know something is getting done.

Another fun story. DH's truck was taken in repeatedly to get a transmission leak fixed. The 4th time in they finally found the problem and fixed it. (small local dealership service with warranty) The last time around they charged us for what should have been covered by the warranty and said "sorry, head guy isn't in so we can't do anything about it". It took repeated calls to finally get a hold of this guy. Apparently he goes in to work late, takes 2 hour lunch breaks, and goes home around 3. Either that or he was dodging my calls.
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post #19 of 64
3/22/10 at 12:58pm
My car was just repaired by a small business. Not including the part, I was charged less to get it repaired than the dealer would have charged just to look at it. He also followed my husband in my car to my job so that I would have my car right away. That's customer service.

My doctor, (well, the doctor I used to have when I had health insurance) took a limited amount of insurances and a limited amount of patients. My husband had insurance from another company at the time (when he had insurance), so I asked him if he would take him on as a patient. He told me he didn't take that kind of insurance because he wanted to remain small and give his patients the attention they deserve. I never waited longer than 5 minutes after my scheduled appointment. That's customer service.

I agree they are not all like that. As others have said, businesses have had to cut their staff to the bare bones in order to survive. I work in such a place.

Once I had to call from my cell while I was in the store to get someone to help me in Home Depot. LOL!

I guess I'm just trying to say don't give up on small business because of a few slackers.
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post #20 of 64
3/22/10 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
I guess I'm just trying to say don't give up on small business because of a few slackers.
About small business in general, I agree. About specific small businesses, sometimes you just have to take your shopping dollars elsewhere.

You know, it would be a great thing if there were a comprehensive review site specifically about small businesses, since they can be harder to find and to know anything about than bigger businesses are.
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post #21 of 64
3/22/10 at 1:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrillblaiddes View Post
About small business in general, I agree. About specific small businesses, sometimes you just have to take your shopping dollars elsewhere.
Absolutely. Not all of them are going to be up to par.
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post #22 of 64
3/22/10 at 2:16pm
I live in a small town. There is a lot of pressure to shop local. I shop local for some things, it great depends on how they treat me. They treat me badly, next time if buy the product in the city. My neighbour and I disagree on this all the time. Her arguement is it supports local people. My point I shop where they treat me well. If they want me to shop local then be nice to me . I don't expect perfection, but I do expect respect.
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post #23 of 64
3/22/10 at 2:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrillblaiddes View Post
You know, it would be a great thing if there were a comprehensive review site specifically about small businesses, since they can be harder to find and to know anything about than bigger businesses are.
If Angie's List doesn't cover that, then there's your business idea and your first million bucks.
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post #24 of 64
3/24/10 at 8:40am
I just want to add after thinking about it. One thing Ive noticed going to different places and out to eat is that if I watch the management (if they are even on the floor) and the bosses are happy and treating the employees with respect than the customer service is generally better. Ive worked in places (the worst being Perkins) where if the management was in the bad mood they took it out on everyone and made the people who worked closely with customers in bad moods. It was like a chain reaction, the manager reems out an employee for no reason and then causes the employee to get upset which in turn effects their job. Its pretty crappy. It would be nice if it was a requirement for everyone in customer service fields to be terminally happy people!
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post #25 of 64
3/26/10 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3CatsN1Dog View Post
I just want to add after thinking about it. One thing Ive noticed going to different places and out to eat is that if I watch the management (if they are even on the floor) and the bosses are happy and treating the employees with respect than the customer service is generally better. Ive worked in places (the worst being Perkins) where if the management was in the bad mood they took it out on everyone and made the people who worked closely with customers in bad moods. It was like a chain reaction, the manager reems out an employee for no reason and then causes the employee to get upset which in turn effects their job. Its pretty crappy. It would be nice if it was a requirement for everyone in customer service fields to be terminally happy people!
Being a very happy voice over the phone can also diffuse the client from wanting to have your butt for lunch. I find that when I answer the phone with my happy happy voice and tell people that I'm going to help them (even if I have no clue or authority) they tend to treat me better, agree to call backs, and treat you more like a human being. Since I'm an oncall, it takes me longer to look up information, analyze the problem and offer a solution. I pretty much tell people that and they tend to give me a break. Fortunately, those people on golf courses all carry cell phones and I'm not afraid to call them.
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post #26 of 64
3/26/10 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder View Post
Being a very happy voice over the phone can also diffuse the client from wanting to have your butt for lunch. I find that when I answer the phone with my happy happy voice and tell people that I'm going to help them (even if I have no clue or authority) they tend to treat me better, agree to call backs, and treat you more like a human being.
This is a tangent but I think this works both ways...I've heard so many people complain about call center people and on-site techs, especially in cable companies, but I've never had one be rude or crabby with me, or anything but professional and courteous, and I've used some of the same companies people complain about. My theory is that after a while, customer service workers develop radar to detect who's going to be difficult to work with either way and some of them decide it's wasted effort to try to be nice to some people.
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post #27 of 64
3/26/10 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrillblaiddes View Post
My theory is that after a while, customer service workers develop radar to detect who's going to be difficult to work with either way and some of them decide it's wasted effort to try to be nice to some people.
I try to see the difference between people who have to follow a policy that I don't like, but explain it to me courteously, vs those who do so with an attitude. I'll dispute a point, if I feel the policy is out of line and ask for a higher up. That usually goes nowhere, but at least I've had my say.

The two worst places I have ever dealt with were Microsoft and Verizon. It was not so much what I'd call poor service as dishonesty. Treating me like crap is one thing, but ripping me off is another.
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post #28 of 64
3/26/10 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrillblaiddes View Post
My theory is that after a while, customer service workers develop radar to detect who's going to be difficult to work with either way and some of them decide it's wasted effort to try to be nice to some people.
I guess it depends, I once called the main line at work to get through to a coworker (she was new and didnt have a direct line at the time) and our receptionist, not knowing it was me, was super crabby from the second she answered the phone.

I do agree to some extent with mrblanches time on hold theory (not necessarily 17 seconds) , I called my cell company just to change plans on the weekend, no complaint etc, but by the time I got through after spending 18 mins on hold I wasn't happy - but if I didnt change it that day I would have to wait til next month.
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post #29 of 64
3/26/10 at 7:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder View Post
The two worst places I have ever dealt with were Microsoft and Verizon. It was not so much what I'd call poor service as dishonesty. Treating me like crap is one thing, but ripping me off is another.
They're known for it. So you should expect that right from the start. Using stuff that they didn't have the rights to use and selling xboxes with a bad solder point, not fessing up to it when it was a problem that could potentially start a fire. (there's more than that, over all they're know for bad business practices)
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post #30 of 64
3/27/10 at 5:22pm
I work at a small business and deal with customers all day. I am lucky that my past job I dealt with customers and can handle many situations. I am also personal friends with my co-bosses so I feel I have a personal stake in how well their business does.
There are a few people that are not totally committed to the job though-I'm sure there are many people in that situation.
I'm used to doing what I have to do to assist a customer. For instance an order for an item we make only once/month in the spring was not recorded correctly. So of course this regular customer comes in and isn't happy. I step up and admit to them we messed up and what can I do. There is a similar item she would substitute that was made only today. I wrote it in the order book correctly, apologized again and told them there would be no charge. As I don't work Saturday's I called in to work (got the boss) and explained that I wanted to make sure her item was pulled and held for her monday pickup.
I'm sure many people wouldn't do all of this but I've learned its easier to retain a customer than to get a new one. Now if I could convince more of my co-workers to be more careful.....
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