Question for nurses, paramedics. med school kids, etc.

This was originally one of the thesis types of posts that going all around in circles until I get to the central question.

I'll make it simple though.

I'm sick of getting stuck 7 or so time before they find a vein. They say that they have a vein light up in the OR. So, unfortunately I can't use it then. Which leads me to just buy one and take it with me to the hospital for my infusion surgery, as well as when I'm hospitalized, and when they need to draw blood for diagnostic purposes.

If you have any recommendations based on what you've heard, or used, please let me know. $499.00 is a lot for a little box with LEDs on it, but if it works, I'd buy it today.

I've never been a hospital nurse (other than when I was in nursing school) and am not familiar with an infusion light at all. I have tiny veins. I usually get stuck multiple times, too. I was in the hospital for nine days a few years back. My blood had to drawn either every 4 or 6 hours, I can't remember. The lab techs had very little trouble drawing my blood using a butterfly system, but the nurses had a hard time whenever my IV site had to be changed. Anyway, after a few different nurses tried to start a new IV, they called a nurse from Critical Care over to do it. She didn't have any trouble at all. Sorry to get off the subject, but maybe you should just ask for them to send their best phlebotomist because you're a hard stick. That may save you the cost of an expensive piece of medical equipment. Also, remember that if it's only used in the OR, only OR staff members may be familiar with how to use it. And if you do decide to purchase it, you may want to check with the hospital on their policies regarding using a patient's personal medical equipment. It might not be in their protocol to do so. I realize my answer is about as clear as mud, but I hope it does help. I know there are other nurses on the site. I hope they can be of more help.

Originally Posted by LawGuy

I'm sick of getting stuck 7 or so time before they find a vein. They say that they have a vein light up in the OR. So, unfortunately I can't use it then. Which leads me to just buy one and take it with me to the hospital for my infusion surgery, as well as when I'm hospitalized, and when they need to draw blood for diagnostic purposes.

today.

Click to expand...

That's crazy!!! I used to get my blood taken regularly for a year when I was on this one med that was potentially dangerous, but not ONCE have they missed my vein!! I must have been soo lucky!!

They used the vein light on me a couple of weeks ago, when they started an IV on me! I can look at it (I work in the O.R.) and find out who makes it, if you'd like. Perhaps a different manufacturer would be more reasonably priced.

Before they used the vein light, they tried wrapping my arms with warm blankets (apparently that is supposed to cause vasodilation, and make the veins easier to see...nope it didn't work so well on me.) They also told me to drink water (twice as much as I normally drink) the day before my procedure, up until the time I had to go NPO, to help prevent dehydration. In our hospital, if a patient has a difficult IV start, they page a nurse anesthetist to put it in.


EDIT:
The VeinLite EMS with 16 LEDs is battery operated, cordless, and is $199.
http://www.translitellc.com/

Have you checked e-Bay?

Wow. I was so tired last night when I posted this that I am amazed at how bad of a post it was. Let me correct it.

This was originally one of the those thesis types of posts that where going all around I verbally go around in circles until I get to the central question.

I'll make it simple though.

I'm sick of getting stuck 7 or so time before they doctors or nurses find a vein. They say I'm always told during procedures, infusion therapy, or before surgery that they have a vein light up in the OR or somewhere other than where I am. So, unfortunately I can't use it then they end up just trying to start an IV the old fashioned way, which usually involves them just shoving a needle into my arm and hoping it hits something. Which This problem leads has led me to strongly consider just buy one purchasing a vein light device for myself and take taking it with me to the hospital for my infusion surgery whenever I go for infusion therapy, procedures, as well as when I'm hospitalized, and or when they need to draw blood for diagnostic purposes.

If you have any recommendations based on what you've heard, or used, please let me know. $499.00 is a lot for a little box with LEDs on it, but if it works, I'd buy it today.

Click to expand...

Geez. Remind me not to write anything after a long day again.

Yikes!
I donate blood regularly and I have TERRIBLE veins, they are so hard for the poor nurses to find and my veins will often collapse or refuse to give blood so I feel your pain!
My boyfriend also has terrible veins (2-time cancer survivor and most of his arm veins are burned out from the chemo) and only has one vein in his arm that actually works

My mum is (or rather was, before she went on disability) a phlebotomist and I've never heard her talk about a vein light so I'm not sure what it is?
I know that drinking lots of of water and avoiding caffeine helps for sure, but rather than spending so much of your own money, I'd recommend trying to get the drs/nurses to get their you-know-what together and make sure that a vein light is available for you or they have someone really good at getting veins available so they don't have to stick you 7 times!

Originally Posted by nurseangel

I've never been a hospital nurse (other than when I was in nursing school) and am not familiar with an infusion light at all. I have tiny veins. I usually get stuck multiple times, too. I was in the hospital for nine days a few years back. My blood had to drawn either every 4 or 6 hours, I can't remember. The lab techs had very little trouble drawing my blood using a butterfly system, but the nurses had a hard time whenever my IV site had to be changed. Anyway, after a few different nurses tried to start a new IV, they called a nurse from Critical Care over to do it. She didn't have any trouble at all. Sorry to get off the subject, but maybe you should just ask for them to send their best phlebotomist because you're a hard stick. That may save you the cost of an expensive piece of medical equipment. Also, remember that if it's only used in the OR, only OR staff members may be familiar with how to use it. And if you do decide to purchase it, you may want to check with the hospital on their policies regarding using a patient's personal medical equipment. It might not be in their protocol to do so. I realize my answer is about as clear as mud, but I hope it does help. I know there are other nurses on the site. I hope they can be of more help.

Click to expand...

I do call critical care, or whatever the equivalent is (the name changes from hospital to hospital, and in other facilities too). Even they sometimes have a rough time. The bigger issue ends up being that there is usually only 1 person working from that dept at a time, so if I want them, I have to wait until they can make it to me. In the past that's taken up to hours. For infusion therapy, which already takes up most of my day because they can only infuse it slowly, otherwise I'll get a rejection reaction, I just don't have the luxury of time to wait for them.

As for hospital protocol, I spoke to my father (a physician) about this. He said that they would probably not want to use it themselves, but that ultimately all I need to do is use it to show them where a good vein is and then they can take it from there. So if I use it just to help them navigate so-to-speak, it won't be breaking protocol since they won't be actually using it themselves.

Originally Posted by ut0pia

That's crazy!!! I used to get my blood taken regularly for a year when I was on this one med that was potentially dangerous, but not ONCE have they missed my vein!! I must have been soo lucky!!

Click to expand...

I get stuck a lot. I get infusion therapy every 6 weeks (IV), and I have to get my blood drawn constantly because my cholesterol, infusion meds (for Crohns), and I think the med I'm taking now for the genetic mutation they just diagnosed me with all carry the risk of liver damage, so I have to get bloodwork for that regularly, as well as check my erythrocyte sedimentation rate, and now with the genetic mutation, my vitamin levels constantly. It ends up basically working out to a needle needing to be put in my arm more than once a month. It's annoying, but would be less so if I didn't have to get stuck multiple times. I'm not counting the shot I have to give myself every week, but that's no biggie because it's impossible to miss. I can theoretically shove the needle pretty much anywhere except my eyeballs and push down on the plunger and it's fine (cobalamin/B12 shot). So I don't mind that. It's the vein ordeal that bothers me.

Originally Posted by Pookie-poo

They used the vein light on me a couple of weeks ago, when they started an IV on me! I can look at it (I work in the O.R.) and find out who makes it, if you'd like. Perhaps a different manufacturer would be more reasonably priced.

Before they used the vein light, they tried wrapping my arms with warm blankets (apparently that is supposed to cause vasodilation, and make the veins easier to see...nope it didn't work so well on me.) They also told me to drink water (twice as much as I normally drink) the day before my procedure, up until the time I had to go NPO, to help prevent dehydration. In our hospital, if a patient has a difficult IV start, they page a nurse anesthetist to put it in.


EDIT:
The VeinLite EMS with 16 LEDs is battery operated, cordless, and is $199.
http://www.translitellc.com/

Have you checked e-Bay?

Click to expand...

Yeah, they've tried the warm blanket trick on me too. No luck. I drink a huge amount of water always to try to help, but it only helps a little bit. If I'm at a hospital that my father is on staff and they all know who I am, I can take advantage of having them call the anesthesia folks to get one started. Usually the anesthesia folks also have lidocaine on them which I ask them to use intradermally. If they do that, then they can stick me and dig around all they want and I don't care because I don't feel it. That's the other part I didn't mention btw - it's not just them missing, it's also them digging around while they're in there hoping to hit a vein. I HATE that (unless there's lidocaine involved). So, unless I were to carry a bottle of lidocaine around (which I think is illegal to have unless you're a pharmacist, physician, or body art professional (I'm not sure if that's the proper title), a vein light is the only route to make things easier.

As for the EMS unit, I actually called Translite, the company that makes it on Thursday. I spoke to them at length about the EMS vs. LED unit. They recommended that I purchase the LED unit as the EMS unit isn't bright enough to see anything other than superficial veins. There are other manufacturers though, so I have to look at the competing products too. That's what this post was really about. I was wondering what make/models people have used and had success with as I'm willing shell out the cash if they actually work (and will last as it will probably be stored in my car so I have it whenever I go for a procedure or infusion).

My uncle is anesthesiologist (actually, he's chief of anesthesiology at one of the local hospitals). He says they have one of them, but he couldn't tell me what make/model it was. Nonetheless he's going to lend it to me next week so I can try it out when I go in for a GI procedure (use your imagination) next week. I have a feeling though it's going to be a fiber-optic hospital unit. We'll see though.

Anyways, if anybody knows about this stuff, or knows somebody who knows about this stuff, any help would be appreciated.

I asked this question on a nurse's forum, but I'm pretty sure that they assumed that with that being my first post there, I was a heroine addict looking for a device to help me.... or something along those lines. It's sad that the world is like that, but an internship I did involving criminal law which required me to go into the jails daily and meet with inmates (or rather, clients in the case of who I was interning for) showed me what really goes on out there and addiction is huge. So, nobody replied to my post. I sympathize with addicts, but I also have a bit of a grudge against them as I feel like all of the opiate addicts helped contribute to my back problem. For YEARS I went into ERs complaining of severe back pain. Coming from a family of doctors, I knew that back pain complaints are the most common way opiate addicts try to get prescriptions or meds..... so the ERs would usually just give me a prescription for pain meds (which wasn't what I wanted) .... but if any of them had actually taken a moment of time to really look, they would have seen that my L5-S1 disc was about to go. My upcoming spinal surgery would have been averted.... and I'd be a lot happier right now..... but here I go on my typical tangents/rants.

Originally Posted by melissaw

My mum is (or rather was, before she went on disability) a phlebotomist and I've never heard her talk about a vein light so I'm not sure what it is?

Click to expand...

It's a device that via light, placed on top of the skin will show the location of veins, their size, etc. A really easy way to see a similar effect is to get a bright LED flashlight, put it up against your skin, and move it around. The light refracting off and throughout your tissue will show some superficial veins. These devices use that same concept, and just take it to the next level.

Like this:

Originally Posted by melissaw

I'd recommend trying to get the drs/nurses to get their you-know-what together and make sure that a vein light is available for you or they have someone really good at getting veins available so they don't have to stick you 7 times!

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the problem with that is that I'm not always at the same facility. Doctor's offices, hospitals, outpatient facilities, etc. I get stuck all over town down here in Florida and up north in MN. So, that makes the only way to know for sure that one will be available wherever I am - having one myself.

Like I said, I have no problem with buying one. I just want to make sure I get one that's worth the money and works. I've spent good money on other health devices too that ordinarily people wouldn't own due to cost. I just feel that with my health, the only way to get ahead of the game is to be prepared. I have the luxury of a family with lots of doctors and friends who are doctors, or will be shortly after they finish residency, etc. to show me how to properly use all these devices. All I need to worry about is spending my money wisely and buying the right products for the job.

I'm going back to law school this time with a mini-clinic in my apt basically. I will be on top of my own health like a fly on excrement. I don't want any surprises this time. I've even buying a small portable ECG to monitor a heart valve problem that we just found too..... (actually, funny story, I've built one from a kit, so I know how they work and everything. I even hooked it up to an oscilloscope I have for my amateur radio hobby and the output was just like you'd see in the hospital. If you're interested in building one yourself here is the kit. It's a lot of fun, and one of their easier kits.)
As for the non-build-it-yourself semi-pro ECG I'm buying, it's this one:



and will send the results down to a close friend of the family (who is my cardiologist as well as friend) and he'll be able to read it. It's a heck of a lot easier than going to a cardiologist in the Twin Cities and dealing with insurance issues, etc. The unit isn't that expensive really. I know this is a little "out-there", but with my health being a train wreck that keeps getting worse, I have to be extreme in protecting myself and looking out for trouble before it causes me trouble. Again though..... me and my tangents.... sorry.

Originally Posted by LawGuy

This was originally one of the thesis types of posts that going all around in circles until I get to the central question.

Click to expand...

That might help. But a better plan is to request a trained phlebotomist. Any reputable hospital should have at least one on duty at all times. Don't let any nurse just start jabbing at you!

I watched them use the vein light on me. They found a vein on me that was completely invisible and nonpalpable through the skin. I'll tell you, from a nurse standpoint, that little device is nothing short of incredible! I wish I had one available when I was starting IVs regularly. I will check out the one we have in our pre-op holding area, and see what make/model it is on Monday.

Originally Posted by mrblanche

That might help. But a better plan is to request a trained phlebotomist. Any reputable hospital should have at least one on duty at all times. Don't let any nurse just start jabbing at you!

Click to expand...

Ordinarily, that would be a reasonable approach. I addressed above in another post the problem with that. There are some trained specialists for people with difficult veins, but not all places have them, and they're usually backed up with a list of patients to get to.

Originally Posted by Pookie-poo

I watched them use the vein light on me. They found a vein on me that was completely invisible and nonpalpable through the skin. I'll tell you, from a nurse standpoint, that little device is nothing short of incredible! I wish I had one available when I was starting IVs regularly. I will check out the one we have in our pre-op holding area, and see what make/model it is on Monday.

Click to expand...

Please do tell me which make/model it is. Thank you so much.

Originally Posted by LawGuy

It's a device that via light, placed on top of the skin will show the location of veins, their size, etc. A really easy way to see a similar effect is to get a bright LED flashlight, put it up against your skin, and move it around. The light refracting off and throughout your tissue will show some superficial veins. These devices use that same concept, and just take it to the next level.

Like this:

Unfortunately, the problem with that is that I'm not always at the same facility. Doctor's offices, hospitals, outpatient facilities, etc. I get stuck all over town down here in Florida and up north in MN. So, that makes the only way to know for sure that one will be available wherever I am - having one myself.

Like I said, I have no problem with buying one. I just want to make sure I get one that's worth the money and works. I've spent good money on other health devices too that ordinarily people wouldn't own due to cost. I just feel that with my health, the only way to get ahead of the game is to be prepared. I have the luxury of a family with lots of doctors and friends who are doctors, or will be shortly after they finish residency, etc. to show me how to properly use all these devices. All I need to worry about is spending my money wisely and buying the right products for the job.

I'm going back to law school this time with a mini-clinic in my apt basically. I will be on top of my own health like a fly on excrement. I don't want any surprises this time. I've even buying a small portable ECG to monitor a heart valve problem that we just found too..... (actually, funny story, I've built one from a kit, so I know how they work and everything. I even hooked it up to oscilloscope I have for my amateur radio hobby and the output was just like you'd see in the hospital. If you're interested in building one yourself here is the kit. It's a lot of fun, and one of their easier kits.) I'm buying this one:

and will send the results down to a close friend of the family (who is my cardiologist as well as friend) and he'll be able to read it. It's a heck of a lot easier than going to a cardiologist in the Twin Cities and dealing with insurance issues, etc. The unit isn't that expensive really. Again though..... me and my tangents.... sorry.

Click to expand...

The vein light is fascinating. I learn something new on TCS every day. Thank you for sharing. I would love to try something like that. Even though I don't draw blood in my present job, I'm one of these people that casually checks out other people's veins while I'm standing next to them in a elevator or whatever.

The vein light is fascinating. I learn something new on TCS every day. Thank you for sharing. I would love to try something like that. Even though I don't draw blood in my present job, I'm one of these people that casually checks out other people's veins while I'm standing next to them in a elevator or whatever.

Click to expand...

Another funny story. The way I learned about them is that I was playing around with a bright LED flashlight a few years ago (back then a 120 lumen LED flashlight was state-of-the-art tech and wasn't cheap..... they still aren't really cheap actually) and I noticed that the light refracting off the tissue let me see my veins. As somebody with difficult to find veins, immediately I realized the possibilities and thought I had invented the next big thing. Then when I started doing a patent search on my own, I learned that several companies beat me to it. So, now I just want to buy one of theirs.

It wasn't an entrepreneurial opportunity for me, but it is an opportunity to make my life a little easier.

I bought a Venoscope II.





It seems to be more widely used than the VeinLite. A little over $200 with the protective case, probe covers, etc. but if it works it will be worth it. I'll try it out with my surgery next week. I have a 30 day money back satisfaction guarantee, so I figured I couldn't go wrong.