Booboo is confusingly not well

This is long. I am sorry in advance. Thank you icklemiss and otto, and yes, I know you are correct. In fact, we just got back from the best visit ever. I had a tech doing the fluids (as last time) and her name was Marie. She was absolutely understanding, patient, caring, did not talk loudly like the last one (which stressed him out more I think) and she brought out a denim purse sans straps with baby safety pins, a sort of "sling" to put him in, his head sticks out one end, his tail out the other and his back is exposed for the needle. It worked WONDERS this time, (He is a Mr Houdini with towels!) and when I asked about warming the fluid she was absolutely willing to warm it up a bit before I came in. She agreed the warmer fluid seems to do better. My vet came in and I spoke with him, he agreed I can start the miralax immediately and was happy I asked. He was thrilled with the pooping information and him greeting me at the door, and was very enthusiastic about the near future. He did tell me that they will do a CBC this Friday, I will come in Saturday for fluids again, and if I am still not comfortable doing the needles (I felt a lot better about it today, I will try my hand at it tomorrow) then we could skip Sunday, the Vet said it would not harm him as long as he is eating and drinking (and he is very well!)
He did have to insert a bit of harsh reality and told me that his numbers will still be high Friday (I asked if he wanted to wait until next week, after more fluids to test, and he said no, the #'s would still be high) He said the toxins were coming out of his system, that was good, he is feeling good, and then told me that as this goes on, his numbers will reach a baseline but they will still be elevated. Then he told me eventually they would start going back up no matter what we did, and there would come a point where we would not have any other treatments to help him. I asked him about the Hypertrophic Cardiomypathy, and he told me he did not believe Boo had it, and not at his age.
I WILL ABSOLUTELY ask for Marie tomorrow and any other time a tech can help, she is the best I have come across since the amazing Dr. Schmunk in the next county. I told her I really liked her, it embarassed her and she thanked me. She was so very nice! They are all nice, you know, but me.. yes, I am very paranoid, I am distrustful, but I stayed calm today and Boo did very well. He seemed very calm, and my goodness guys, the fluids went fast today! I told Marie the fluids did not seem to go this fast last time, and she said it could have been the placement of the needle and his jerking around last time.
So. I pick him up when she is done and hold him on my hip, and he was waaaaay more calm than he ever has been. I was calm, knowing he was calm, and I am doing better at this. He is enjoying the sunshine at the moment.
Didn't cry in the carrier at all, there or on the way home. Only hid when we got inside the vet, but after that I truly believe he did astoundingly well!
I have never had an animal injured at this vet. My mother had a falling out with the Vet I currently use years ago, and I still think, on both sides, they are not too fond of each other. Honestly, there is no rational foundation for my fears or worries. I grew up watching my Mom alienate, frustrate and make so many people angry with the way she communicated that I tried my best not to have people mad at me. So thank you for asking and no, no offense taken. I know my stress affects him muchly, and am doing my best to keep calm, now that I understand much more than I did before.
Also noticed that the one I caught (on more than one occassion) discussing other clients is not someone who interacts with the animals. She is purely a front desk/file clerk/customer service person.
I am such an overprotective cat mom that is has caused suspicion, paranoia and second guessing of vets, but yes, I do trust my vet, he saved my cat's life from the disaster at the ER Vet clinic, and I've never had one die there. So, thank you for bringing that to my attention, I suppose I really needed to think about that one, and neglect to think things like that through ... it is much appreciated, and this will help me be even calmer taking him there and working with him at home.
And one last thing. Since my level of anxiety has been going up for the past few years from other unrelated issues (Finances, family passings, etc) I know I need to see my own doctor and speak to him about some course of action for this. And your posts have got me in gear for it. I thank you again so very much. Tough questions have to be asked sometimes!!
Thank you so much Going to treat Boo to some fresh air and sunshine and a nice walk outside on his harness! Talk to you guys later And blessings to you all.

I apologise. Could someone repeat the miralax concentration? I want to try to give the smallest amount first and work up from that if necessary, but how much, how often and mixed with how much water? Going this minute to get some, and hopefully can find a baby syringe or something to make it easier. Thank you!!

Your Vet should have told you how much of the Miralax to use! I use 1/4 teaspooon in 1.5 cc water twice per day and give it to Sven with an eyedropper. We started with 1/8 teaspoon and that wasn't enough, so moved up to 1/4. If Booboo eats canned food, I think you can just mix the Miralax directly into the wet food without mixing it with water first, but am not sure, since Sven won't eat wet food!

By the way, too much Miralax CAN definitely cause diarrhea, which you don't want!! and a baby syringe would work great too, if you are going to mix with water and shoot directly into his mouth. Get several syringes, as using twice a day, they won't last too long!!

I'm sorry. I will confirm what mixture he would suggest tomorrow.. I haven't tried him on him yet, since he pooped earlier and some of it was runny. The past two days he has been on a schedule it seems. During the morning he is waking up, moving around, pooing, eat/drink and early afternoon he is a little active, might poo, eat/drink but into the late afternoon (I went to sleep at 2pm, and woke up now at 8:15pm) he is sleeping hard in his rocking chair and looks to be comfortable. I think he sleeps pretty hard during the night.
I just got the miralax for the future, when things start to get into more of a routine. But I certainly don't want to dehydrate him further with it, of course.
Thank you all again.

I did it! My first try at sub-q fluids. No, it was not as terrifying or as hard as I thought it would be, but will -definitely- need a second set of hands at home. I want to try again tomorrow under supervision at the vet, since he is still not really liking it. He did not growl or hiss this time, only jerked a few times, and I am hoping that has a lot to do with the warmed fluids. They were not lukewarm but actually warm. It was nice. They will do it for me tomorrow too.
I was so scared, the needle was the worst part, but it was like a fork prong going into a slightly thick plastic bag. Not too bad. He jerked once and even though I tried to level my hand on his body so if he moved, the needle would not jab him, I felt the needle touch something and it was not pleasant. It did not hurt him though and he still did not growl or hiss. I will be trying to make a sling like the denim purse they have that really works well. It went quickly again today, not like the first time, and he got 200ML again.
My vet was in surgery today, but he is supposed to call me this afternoon in between or after surgeries. Booboo looks well! His eyes are wide, he is active, but I am concerned about his not eating the K/D. I tried mixing some warm water with it, he still turned his nose up at it. Didn't even get near it. He will eat from a freshly opened, room temperature can but after it has been refrigerated, I think I can just forget it! I've ended up throwing a decent amount of refrigerated wet food away because he just will not eat it, slightly warmed, with water, without water, sat out for awhile, nope nope nope!
He is definitely liking the car rides more. He sits up, looks at me (through the rearview I have pointed at him) and does not claw at the carrier or try to hide under the towels I have in there. He gets nervous once we get into a room, but heck I would, too.
*sighs* I have also been much calmer since this is becoming much more familiar to both of us, and he seems to be happy. Going to try to get him to take a walk outside with me and maybe eat some. I know eating something is better than nothing, but I'd really prefer him eating the wet K/D chicken and not his dry C/D. Maybe I should get him some wet C/D? I will ask the vet about it, and everything else. We get our CBC tomorrow! I am praying for much lower numbers. Thank you for all of your time and support. I know you all have lives outside of this site but I could not be doing any of this without you all.

Hooray, Good job!!!! It's kinda freaky, but mostly just because it's unfamiliar, huh?

Yes, mostly because it is unfamiliar, and while I know it might be unpleasant for him, I know it will help him, so that helps a little too.
I have a question about his turning his nose up (I will ask the vet this afternoon) I wanted to get him to eat something, and when I took him out he wanted to dive into a bowl of Cat Chow I have out there for an outside cat. I wouldn't let him near it and took him back in after awhile to try and get him to eat K/D. Forcing it in his mouth is not the route I want to go, and so I ground up a few pieces of the cat chow, put it on a paper towel and put it on the floor to see just how excited it would make him. He put his foot on paper towel and wouldn't let me have it back! (So I know he must be hungry but he hates the K/D I guess?) But I got it back before he ate any of it, and dusted a small amount of the cat chow OVER the wet K/D. HE WENT GONZO and ate a good deal of it (I put down a little over a tablespoon of the K/D, and there is probably half of that left) Which may not sound like a lot but it's definitely better than nothing right now. He may eat some more later, I will keep an eye on him. I will not add any more Cat chow right now until I talk to the vet, and hopefully that will be at least between noon and 4.
I am uncomfortable giving him any cat chow, seeing as how that was what he originally ate before he got his urinary crystals, but the vet told me to let him eat whatever food he would eat, it was better than him not eating. So hopefully a dusting didn't hurt? I don't want to make any more mistakes with him
... more later.

A dusting to get him to eat the food shouldn't hurt him. K/D tastes awful (yes, I've tried it ), so I don't blame him for not wanting it. I would recommend getting some Purina One Urinary Diet and grinding that up and sprinkling it on his food... see if that adds some flavor. Also, try heating it up for 15 - 20 seconds. You can also add a little chicken broth or tuna water to the food to add some smell to it.

Good luck!

Okie

Thank you Okie. I feel guilty enough without ruining his seemingly good mood/feeling trying to get him to eat! I am reading the Feline-Assisted-Feeding yahoo group now and it has lots of great information. I will certainly try the Purine One Urinary Diet. He used to adore his Cat Chow, even liked his C/D, I am trying not to be discouraged that he hates his K/D
And I am also extremely pleased to hear I'm not the only one who has tasted of cat food Thank you!!!!

Originally Posted by Snickerdoodle

Thank you Okie. I feel guilty enough without ruining his seemingly good mood/feeling trying to get him to eat! I am reading the Feline-Assisted-Feeding yahoo group now and it has lots of great information. I will certainly try the Purine One Urinary Diet. He used to adore his Cat Chow, even liked his C/D, I am trying not to be discouraged that he hates his K/D
And I am also extremely pleased to hear I'm not the only one who has tasted of cat food

Thank you!!!!

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And I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who tastes their cat's food! (Dog food too! I tried some dog treats a work a couple of weeks ago that were AWESOME! They tasted like sugar cookies! )

Hope he feels better soon!

Okie

My goodness, I've tried dog food too (long time ago) and some of it actually tasted -really- good. Ha ha!!

I got to talk to vet a bit ago and he confirmed the CBC for tomorrow. I am curious about something though, I asked him about mixing a bit of the cat chow with the K/D and he was okay with that, but he said the Purine One Urinary was more for crystals and urinary tract things and he thought I should stick to the cat chow?? What do you guys think about that?

I also gave him 1/2 teaspoon of miralax mixed with 4-5 ML of water, he was NOT happy about it (Vet said he would hate me for it) but hopefully it will soften up his stool a bit.
Now maybe the human can get a bite of lunch and a nap Thank you all for your help (and laughs! ) I will update when I get the CBC results (Will ask for a copy this time like I should've last time) Have a great day

I have tried my cat's foods too, but since you are seeing the vet anyway, it doesn't hurt to mention the cat chow on top of the k/d personally I would try to use something a little higher quality but its also important to make sure he is eating, at lest for now

He is jumping fine, I put him in the tub to see if he wanted water (He did this morning, apparently not now, he jumped out) But then he walked sort of.. straddle-legged for a few steps and set down. He did that a few more times, then got up on the bed (with no obvious problem) and laid on his side. Is this a "I'm going to have to poop soon" thing, I know it is an on/off thing since he was diagnosed... Will also discuss with vet tomorrow. Just wondering if anyone had any ideas. Thanks again And yes, ickle, I would think a higher quality food would be a better idea.

Congrats on your first sub-q fluids try!!! I knew you could do it!!!!!

I must say, though, that I am quite surprised by the amount of Miralax that your Vet suggested you use, and the amount of water he said to mix it with. That seems really high. Are doing 1/2 teaspoon TWICE a day, or just once? our Vet told us between 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon TWICE a day, and WE are the ones who figured out the amount of liquid, based on what it took to get it dissolved. Course, maybe he suggesting a higher amount right now just to get him cleared out (if that is a problem currently, even though he's had some diarrhea - who knows, I"m certainly not a Vet!) By the way, I did doublecheck, and you CAN add it to wet food by just dissolving it in a little water, then mixing it into the wet food. If he isn't taking it well, you might try that with about a tablespoon of his wetfood laced with the Cat Chow!!

As to the K/D diet, have you tried him on any of the dry stuff? I know it's not supposed to be as pallatable, but I just bought my guy some IAms Multi-Stage Renal Feline Dry, and he actually likes it! And it comes with a money back guarantee. (just a thought) Something for him to graze on when you're away from home.

I have only used it once. I think he did suggest it to be that high (It seemed like a lot in the little measuring spoon) because hadn't pooped since last night around 8pm. I am using the Original strength powdered miralax in the white bottle with a purple top. It is a powder. It says "Stool softener" then it also says laxative, and it also says it will help in 1-3 days!!! He seemed to be maybe having a couple cramps from the miralax when he was walking funny? I do not know. He is sleeping super hard right now in his rocking chair, and his head is actually laying on the chair like normal (And turned sideways all funny! That means he is comfortable!) instead of being up. He was twitching like he does when he's in a dream last night, I was glad to see him sleeping so deeply.
I haven't got any of the dry K/D because the vet said he wanted him on the wet only (if at all possible, if he wasn't eating, let him eat anything, but try to get him to eat as much of the wet K/D as possible) for the moisture until we get another CBC. I have caught him eating the dry C/D that is down (for Chick'Sue) I will check on the Iams!!
That is the other thing, the kitten knows something is up with Boo and while she's been seeking extra (or really, ,just any, I've been so busy) from my Mom, she's also been being a tad bit more mischievious. She's only bothered Boo once, and I think she was just trying to see if he wanted to play. She's being really good actually, so I'm going to sit with her while Boo is asleep and comfort her a bit.
While he runny poop was runny, it was also pretty "Solid" You know what I mean? There wasn't any OBVIOUS water (Though I know he lost water in it) but it was kinda of like... the consistency of Nutella? (Oh geez hope I didn't ruin anyone on Nutella. Just ruined myself LOL)

Thanks guys. Going to go keep an eye on my babies.

Anyone have experience with walking strangely in CRF cats? He has been sleeping in his chair since around 2pm and it is nearly 7pm now. He was awake and I showed him his cat-chow dusted K/D wet. He jumped down for it, no problem, but then took the kitty pan route. He was walking very stiffly on his front legs, and back legs. Very robotically?
I picked him up and rushed him to his pan and he peed a wholeeeeeee lot. But then laid down half in-half out of the pan. I gave him a few minutes to see if he would poo, went out of the room to give him some privacy, spied on him, nothing. He came out of the room walking stiffly and laid down again. I picked him up and took him to the wet food. He ate like before, very enthusiastically. Then went to walk again and same thing. I put him back in his chair. He is resting. ANY Ideas? My vet is closed until 7:30am. Note that he did this, back legs only, on and off since diagnosed, but never the front. It came and went... thank you for your help.
(I am reading about Ataxia on Tanya's Feline CRF center now)

Low potassium can cause issues with walking, I would definitely mention it to the vet. With food, I would let him have some of the cat chow mixed if it means he gets some of the renal food, and while wet is the best, if he wants some dry, I would let him, as if he doesn't eat, he will feel worse.

Originally Posted by booktigger;2840639[B

]Low potassium can cause issues with walking,[/b] I would definitely mention it to the vet. With food, I would let him have some of the cat chow mixed if it means he gets some of the renal food, and while wet is the best, if he wants some dry, I would let him, as if he doesn't eat, he will feel worse.

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This was my thought too. Your vet is really flooding him with the fluids, his potassium and other electrolytes may be low. I didn't really understand giving 200 ml every day, that is a LOT. The blood work is tomorrow?

But I'm glad to know you've done it successfully, now you know you can do it at home.

Blood work is this morning. Will be asking why 200 ML for this entire week. He is not walking robotically this morning, but he does have a limp in one of his front legs which I'm worried might be the symptom of a heart condition I read about on Tanya's CRF site. I will certainly be addressing it this morning. I do not know if the CBC Will be before or after his fluids yet.
He did eat again this morning, and was eating dry C/D (This is out for the kitten in the house) When I came home. His wet K/D had sort of crusted over, threw it away, got a fresh lump on a fresh plate and crushed some Cat chow, dusted it, he was not interested. I put the crushed amount next to the plate, showed it to him, he tried to take it from me ( I feel so horrible, I know he is hungry) and dusted K/D with it. He ate, though only a few bites. (Might be worth noting he's always been an "All day nibbler" unlike the kitten who plops down and eats until whenever). He also pooped last night, which I was happy about. Will be taking that little bit of excitement straight to the vet in a ziploc bag so he can see it. It was a solid stool but it was soft, though it was a bit short (Maybe about 1 to 1/2 inches long) I hope this is the miralax working!! I KNOW Boo is happy not to have a bunch of mess clung to his rear.
He drank water this morning too. He was purring big, wanted to go outside, eyes are big, he is actually meowing at me when I say "Hey baby!" Coming into a room, big meows. Like normal. I am still confused about his poor walking, but he jumps like a graceful kitten, and jumps into the rocking chair which is not very low at all to the ground!
I know it will take a little more time to get him back closer to normal, and am trying so hard not to be impatient.
Thank you all for your help. So much.