Chronic diahorrea???

beccamacs · Mar 14, 2010

hi people, i was just hoping that maybe one or two of you could give me some light on why my cat Mischa keeps having such water diahorrea it really looks very painful her whole body contratcs while she's doing her 'business' and afterwards she just goes right to sleep and stays that way for hours. we have tried puting her on all different kinds of pet food but nothing seems to make any difference.

She's 11 years old and the vet says there is nothing they can do for her except give her medicine that just stops any bowel movments at all and thats just even worse! I know it's probably just because she's getting older but it's been like this for over two years now, It just started over night. and it only seems to get worse and worse everyday more.

I'm terrified that if i take her to the vet again that they'll say that she needs to be put down, and i'm not sure i can handle that. since she still has her "kitten moment" every so often like she would used to do everyday... and i would feel awful if a vet were to say to me to put her down and i did it when there is still some cat in her.

Thanks very much to who ever answers this!

Becca. M

huggles · Mar 14, 2010

I cant really give you any advise on the diahorrea part but no doubt others will chime in soon

have you had a second opinon from a different clinic? I would see no reason for them to suggest putting her to sleep unless she was in chronic pain and they couldnt help. Do you think she is in pain? or is it likely to be just painful when she is doing her business?

beccamacs · Mar 14, 2010

it only seems to be painful while she's doing her business but she is just so exaughst for hours after... she just sleeps most of the day... thanks for answering by the way i was begging to fear that nobody would LOL!

huggles · Mar 14, 2010

dont worry, people will reply if you give it some time (people more knowledgeable than me!)

Has the vet run any tests?

beccamacs · Mar 14, 2010

yeah but apparently nothing unusual came back which i'm absoulutely shocked about!

kai bengals · Mar 14, 2010

This is what I would do if I had a cat with the symptoms you subscribe and my Vet was stumped.

1. Consult another Vet for second opinion and rule out parasites again with another fecal test.

2. Start administering a good probiotic paste or gel immediately.

3. Find a canned food that has NO wheat gluten in it. Feed that and that only. Eliminate the dry food altogether.

4. Withold food for 24 hours, then feed small portions several times a day, versus 2 big meals. Gradually increase portion size and wait longer between feedings.

icklemiss21 · Mar 14, 2010

First thing I would do is consult another vet, unless there has been significant diagnostics, there is never 'nothing the vet can do' for diarrhea - some vets care a lot more than others

You need to have a fecal sample done, ask the vet for a sample bottle as some parasites can show some days and not others - put several samples in the liquid in the bottle and make sure its covered by the liquid so that it is preserved. Then take it for testing.

Ask about having your cat dewormed, there are many general purpose dewormers that wont hurt if they dont have worms but help if they do that shelters use to deworm all cats that come in.

As KaiBengals mentioned above, change her diet and be strict about what she eats, no going outside where others could be feeding her or she could be catching wildlife, no treats or humane food etc

otto · Mar 14, 2010

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

This is what I would do if I had a cat with the symptoms you subscribe and my Vet was stumped.

1. Consult another Vet for second opinion and rule out parasites again with another fecal test.

2. Start administering a good probiotic paste or gel immediately.

3. Find a canned food that has NO wheat gluten in it. Feed that and that only. Eliminate the dry food altogether.

4. Withold food for 24 hours, then feed small portions several times a day, versus 2 big meals. Gradually increase portion size and wait longer between feedings.

Especially the new vet part. "nothing we can do" what hogwash.

At the very least probiotics, diet change, and sub q fluids to start.

Blood work to check organ function, including thyroid.

Welcome to the forum! Please do stick around and let us know how Mischa is doing.

stephanietx · Mar 14, 2010

I also would suggest a second opinion. Also, ask them to do a fecal test for giardia and TF, Tritrichomanas Foetus.

http://www.highgait.com/page/page/3485008.htm

You can also do a search here in the health forum for chronic diarrhea and you'll find TONS of posts on the subject.

Secondly, have the vet run blood tests for senior cats to check for any abnormalities that might be contributing to the problem.

Thirdly, talk to your vet about a probiotic. I noticed that you're in Scotland, so I'm not sure what you have access to, but I've used plain acidophilus capsules. I open up the capsule and sprinkle half the capsule into wet food twice a day. It has helped tremendously when one of my girls have had diarrhea caused by antibiotics or eating something that disagreed with their tummy (like ice cream remains!).

The suggestion about changing food is a good one, too.

carolina · Mar 14, 2010

Yeah, I was going to say to test this cat for TF too...

What is she eating now, out of curiosity? Have all the allergies been ruled out? If so, how?

What about IBD? Has she been tested?

sharky · Mar 14, 2010

Originally Posted by Carolina

Yeah, I was going to say to test this cat for TF too...

What is she eating now, out of curiosity? Have all the allergies been ruled out? If so, how?

What about IBD? Has she been tested?

The above all very good points and questions ... the answers may help guide us to give ideas better ...

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

This is what I would do if I had a cat with the symptoms you subscribe and my Vet was stumped.

1. Consult another Vet for second opinion and rule out parasites again with another fecal test.

2. Start administering a good probiotic paste or gel immediately.

3. Find a canned food that has NO wheat gluten in it. Feed that and that only. Eliminate the dry food altogether.

4. Withold food for 24 hours, then feed small portions several times a day, versus 2 big meals. Gradually increase portion size and wait longer between feedings.

Great ideas ...
Find a New Vet ! Run a fecal with the TF test also

Be careful as probiotics can make the issues worse at least temporarily( do not give them with a antibiotic as the antibiotic will kill them off too )

Find a canned food With One meat and one starch or grain ( avoid wheat , soy and fish as they are the tops in food allergens)

IMHO try 12 hours no food but 24 is not unheard of

Originally Posted by stephanietx

I also would suggest a second opinion. Also, ask them to do a fecal test for giardia and TF, Tritrichomanas Foetus.

http://www.highgait.com/page/page/3485008.htm

You can also do a search here in the health forum for chronic diarrhea and you'll find TONS of posts on the subject.

Secondly, have the vet run blood tests for senior cats to check for any abnormalities that might be contributing to the problem.

Thirdly, talk to your vet about a probiotic. I noticed that you're in Scotland, so I'm not sure what you have access to, but I've used plain acidophilus capsules. I open up the capsule and sprinkle half the capsule into wet food twice a day. It has helped tremendously when one of my girls have had diarrhea caused by antibiotics or eating something that disagreed with their tummy (like ice cream remains!).

The suggestion about changing food is a good one, too.

Great link

beccamacs · Mar 14, 2010

hiya! errmm right now she is on asda's (part of the wal-mart group) own brand of wet and dry cat food called tiger.

i'm not sure what the ingredients of them are i have tried to research them but i can't find a webpage to give you guys.

all the other cats are fine with the food and have never had any porblems but then again Mischa always has to be different! i spoil that cat rotten! lol

as for tests and such, there was tests done to see what her kidney functions were like, i'm not sure about allergies, but all i can remember the vet saying was that she was taking her bloods for kidney testing and nothing unusual came back. she gave me white liquid meds called Kaogel, and all it does as i said is block her up for a couple of days, it doesn't seem to do much for the problem just kinda postpones it as such.

icklemiss21 · Mar 14, 2010

Sharky can be more help on the food, I found the ingredients but its not a linkable page so here they are

DRY

Blue Packaging - Fish
Cereals , Derivatives Of Vegetable Origin , Meat And Animal Derivatives , Oils and Fats , Minerals , Yeasts , Fish and Fish Derivatives (Min 4% Salmon in the Nugget, min 4 % Tuna in the Nugget with the Tuna) , Various Sugars , Mollucs and Crustaceans (min 4% Shrimp in the Nugget with the Shrimp) , Coloured with EC Additives .
Typical values \tTypical Analysis \t
Protein \t30.0% \t
Oils and Fats \t10.0% \t
Fibre \t4.0% \t
Ash \t8.0% \t
Vitamin A \t12000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t1000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin E \t80mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t10mg/kg

--------------------

Red Packaging - Duck, Rabbit, Vegetable
Cereals , Derivatives Of Vegetable Origin , Meat and Animal Derivatives (min 4% Duck in the Nugget with Duck, min 4% Rabbit in the Nugget) , Oils And Fats , Minerals , Vegetables (Min. 4% Peas in the Nugget with Vegetables) , Yeasts , Various Sugars , Coloured with EC Additives .
Typical values \tTypical Analysis \t
Protein \t30.0% \t
Oils and Fats \t10.0% \t
Fibre \t4.0% \t
Ash \t8.0% \t
Vitamin A \t12000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t1000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin E \t80mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t10mg/kg

----------------

Yellow Packaging - Chicken
Cereals , Derivatives Of Vegetable Origin , Meat And Animal Derivatives (min 4% Chicken in the Nugget with Chicken, min 4% Turkey in the Nugget with Turkey) , Oils and Fats , Minerals (min 1% Calcium) , Yeasts , Various Sugars , Coloured with EC Additives
Typical values \tTypical Analysis \t
Protein \t30.0% \t
Oils and Fats \t10.0% \t
Fibre \t4.0% \t
Ash \t8.0% \t
Vitamin A \t12000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t1000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin E \t80mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t10mg/kg

and WET

yellow
Meat And Animal Derivatives (Chicken min 4%, Turkey min 4%) , Cereals , Minerals , Coloured with EC Additives .
Typical values \tPer 100g \t
Protein \t6.5g \t
Oils and Fats \t5.0g \t
Fibre \t0.4g \t
Ash \t2.5g \t
Moisture \t80.0g \t
Vitamin A \t2000 iÂµ/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t200 iÂµ/kg \t
Vitamin E \t16mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t1mg/kg

------------------

Red
Meat and Animal Derivatives (Rabbit min 4%, Chicken min 4%) , Minerals , Various Sugars , Coloured with EC Additives .
Typical values \tPer 100g \t
Protein \t7.0g \t
Oils and Fats \t4.5g \t
Fibre \t0.4g \t
Ash \t2.5g \t
Moisture \t83.0g \t
Vitamin A \t2000iÂµ/kg \t
Vitamin D \t200 iÂµ/kg \t
Vitamin E \t16mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t1mg/kg

---------------------------

icklemiss21 · Mar 14, 2010

There is a chart on this page (about half way down) that shows you the symptoms of different things that can cause diarrhea - if you know what to look for it help your vet diagnose her.
http://www.peteducation.com/article....+2122&aid=3573

With some meds, they just dont agree with certain cats, it often takes a few tries to get one that works for that animal (just like people), its basically like you taking peptobismol or imoodium - it works for some but not others but you still have to take care of the underlying condition causing it, it just stops it for a short while for relief

carolina · Mar 14, 2010

Originally Posted by beccamacs

hiya! errmm right now she is on asda's (part of the wal-mart group) own brand of wet and dry cat food called tiger.

i'm not sure what the ingredients of them are i have tried to research them but i can't find a webpage to give you guys.

all the other cats are fine with the food and have never had any porblems but then again Mischa always has to be different! i spoil that cat rotten! lol

as for tests and such, there was tests done to see what her kidney functions were like, i'm not sure about allergies, but all i can remember the vet saying was that she was taking her bloods for kidney testing and nothing unusual came back. she gave me white liquid meds called Kaogel, and all it does as i said is block her up for a couple of days, it doesn't seem to do much for the problem just kinda postpones it as such.

Ok, you really need another vet PRONTO, ASAP. Nothing has been done for this kitty...
This vet never even put her on Metronidazole? An antibiotic that is widely used for chronic diarrhea? Very strange... IMO your cat has been mistreated by this vet. I am sorry for telling you this...

Also, from this post, and the post with the food ingredients, I come to the conclusion that if your cat has either Allergies or IBD, she is completely out of luck, and the problem will persist in the diet. (BTW, they are pretty vague with the ingredients in there, huh?)
Anyways, you don't really want to test for allergies, as it will break your bank - it is VERY $$$, and not 100% reliable...
What I would do now, is look for a food that has a SINGLE ONE protein, and no grains and put her on it. Chicken and Peas, Venison and Peas, Rabbit...
These diets are called "Limited Ingredients Diets", and will indicate that are made for allergic cats. You do not need prescription diets, but you will NOT find this on Wallmart, or in surpermarkets. Go to a pet supply store.
Read the ingredient list carefully, to make sure there is only ONE type of meat.
Make sure there is no soy, NO FISH, no wheat, no corn.
You want her to eat this diet ONLY, nothing else for at least 6-8 weeks. No treats, no nothing. If the diet is chicken and pea, you can give her freeze dried chicken as treats, but no "chicken" flavored treats, as they contain many other ingredients.

After your cat is on this diet for a while, you can start to add one protein at a time. You will then see what protein gives her a reaction, by causing diarrhea.
You then remove that from her diet, let her get better, and give it to her again. If she has diarrhea again, you found the culprit. From that time on, you can feed the foods without that ingredient in her diet.

A great way to avoid problems, if she has IBD, is removing Grains, wheat gluten, and if she has allergies, whatever she is allergic to. Probiotics and Enzymes are also great. That is how I keep my boy healthy.

Good lucky!

icklemiss21 · Mar 14, 2010

Do you have an actual pet store near you rather than a grocery store?

They would have more premium brands such as James Well Beloved or at least the sensitive versions of Royal Canin

sharky · Mar 14, 2010

Thank you for the ingredients ...

Originally Posted by icklemiss21

Sharky can be more help on the food, I found the ingredients but its not a linkable page so here they are

DRY

Blue Packaging - Fish
Cereals This can from my understanding be any grain and likely switches bag to bag to what ever is cheapest, Derivatives Of Vegetable OriginIn my understanding this is vegetable by products ( ie what most of us take off and throw away... Cats need very little vegetable matter 3-5% total this being the second ingredient usually means 20-30% of the Bag , Meat And Animal Derivatives animal by product which is mostly bone in a dry form, Oils and Fats , Mineralswhat is the source , YeastsThis IMHO is a Higher allergen than any Grain or meat , Fish and Fish Derivatives (Min 4% Salmon in the Nugget, min 4 % Tuna in the Nugget with the Tuna) by products of fish and at least 8% of them are salmon and tuna BIG allergens, Various Sugars cats have NO need for sugar of any kind , Mollucs and Crustaceans (min 4% Shrimp in the Nugget with the Shrimp) this included the shells ?able to me , Coloured with EC Additives Second to yeast IMHO the biggest allergen in this and many formulas.
Typical values \tTypical Analysis \t
Protein \t30.0% \t
Oils and Fats \t10.0% low IMHO \t
Fibre \t4.0% \t
Ash \t8.0% most foods are 5.5 to 7.5 %\t
Vitamin A \t12000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t1000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin E \t80mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t10mg/kg

--------------------

Red Packaging - Duck, Rabbit, Vegetable See above this is not better
Cereals , Derivatives Of Vegetable Origin , Meat and Animal Derivatives (min 4% Duck in the Nugget with Duck, min 4% Rabbit in the Nugget) , Oils And Fats , Minerals , Vegetables (Min. 4% Peas in the Nugget with Vegetables) , Yeasts , Various Sugars , Coloured with EC Additives .
Typical values \tTypical Analysis \t
Protein \t30.0% \t
Oils and Fats \t10.0% \t
Fibre \t4.0% \t
Ash \t8.0% \t
Vitamin A \t12000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t1000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin E \t80mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t10mg/kg

----------------

Yellow Packaging - ChickenYikes this is worse
Cereals , Derivatives Of Vegetable Origin , Meat And Animal Derivatives (min 4% Chicken in the Nugget with Chicken, min 4% Turkey in the Nugget with Turkey) , Oils and Fats , Minerals (min 1% Calcium) , Yeasts , Various Sugars , Coloured with EC Additives
Typical values \tTypical Analysis \t
Protein \t30.0% \t
Oils and Fats \t10.0% \t
Fibre \t4.0% \t
Ash \t8.0% \t
Vitamin A \t12000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t1000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin E \t80mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t10mg/kg

and WET

yellow
Meat And Animal Derivatives (Chicken min 4%, Turkey min 4%) , Cereals , Minerals , Coloured with EC Additives .
Typical values \tPer 100g \t
Protein \t6.5g \t
Oils and Fats \t5.0g \t
Fibre \t0.4g \t
Ash \t2.5g \t
Moisture \t80.0g \t
Vitamin A \t2000 iÂµ/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t200 iÂµ/kg \t
Vitamin E \t16mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t1mg/kg

------------------

Red
Meat and Animal Derivatives (Rabbit min 4%, Chicken min 4%) , Minerals , Various Sugars , Coloured with EC Additives .
Typical values \tPer 100g \t
Protein \t7.0g \t
Oils and Fats \t4.5g \t
Fibre \t0.4g \t
Ash \t2.5g \t
Moisture \t83.0g \t
Vitamin A \t2000iÂµ/kg \t
Vitamin D \t200 iÂµ/kg \t
Vitamin E \t16mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t1mg/kg

---------------------------

IMHO you can find way better ... Hopefully the EU members will give some ideas

As for IBD and grains well depends on the cat ... In my case two with it no grains cost me $$$ in surgery bills

booktigger · Mar 14, 2010

Tiger dry food really isn't good quality, the only dry food I would buy from Asda is Purina, and that is only a last measure - Pets at Home do some good dry foods, but just watch which one you get - you want either their Purely range (looks cheap in a cardboard box, but the ingredients are similar to JWB but not as pricey), or I think it is in a silver bag - it is normally on BOGOF around Bank Hols - they do an excellent return service and do take back open food and refund you. JWB do give free samples from their website.

Because of her age, I would also ask the new vet to do an ultrasound of her abdomen.

carolina · Mar 14, 2010

Originally Posted by sharky

As for IBD and grains well depends on the cat ... In my case two with it no grains cost me $$$ in surgery bills

Sharky, I don't understand your sentence... sorry... You are saying that the IBD cats that were put in a NO grain diet needed to have surgery because of the diet? Is that what you are saying?

sharky · Mar 14, 2010

Originally Posted by Carolina

Sharky, I don't understand your sentence... sorry... You are saying that the IBD cats that were put in a NO grain diet needed to have surgery because of the diet? Is that what you are saying?

Pm me .. All I can say is NO issues since adding the grains back in ... Do I blame the no grain food , NOT at all .. Just the old blanket of NO grains for IBS or IBD cats is mistaken

Chronic diahorrea???

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