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Chronic diahorrea???

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 
hi people, i was just hoping that maybe one or two of you could give me some light on why my cat Mischa keeps having such water diahorrea it really looks very painful her whole body contratcs while she's doing her 'business' and afterwards she just goes right to sleep and stays that way for hours. we have tried puting her on all different kinds of pet food but nothing seems to make any difference.

She's 11 years old and the vet says there is nothing they can do for her except give her medicine that just stops any bowel movments at all and thats just even worse! I know it's probably just because she's getting older but it's been like this for over two years now, It just started over night. and it only seems to get worse and worse everyday more.

I'm terrified that if i take her to the vet again that they'll say that she needs to be put down, and i'm not sure i can handle that. since she still has her "kitten moment" every so often like she would used to do everyday... and i would feel awful if a vet were to say to me to put her down and i did it when there is still some cat in her.

Thanks very much to who ever answers this!

Becca. M
post #2 of 32
I cant really give you any advise on the diahorrea part but no doubt others will chime in soon

have you had a second opinon from a different clinic? I would see no reason for them to suggest putting her to sleep unless she was in chronic pain and they couldnt help. Do you think she is in pain? or is it likely to be just painful when she is doing her business?
post #3 of 32
Thread Starter 
it only seems to be painful while she's doing her business but she is just so exaughst for hours after... she just sleeps most of the day... thanks for answering by the way i was begging to fear that nobody would LOL!
post #4 of 32
dont worry, people will reply if you give it some time (people more knowledgeable than me!)

Has the vet run any tests?
post #5 of 32
Thread Starter 
yeah but apparently nothing unusual came back which i'm absoulutely shocked about!
post #6 of 32
This is what I would do if I had a cat with the symptoms you subscribe and my Vet was stumped.

1. Consult another Vet for second opinion and rule out parasites again with another fecal test.

2. Start administering a good probiotic paste or gel immediately.

3. Find a canned food that has NO wheat gluten in it. Feed that and that only. Eliminate the dry food altogether.

4. Withold food for 24 hours, then feed small portions several times a day, versus 2 big meals. Gradually increase portion size and wait longer between feedings.
post #7 of 32
First thing I would do is consult another vet, unless there has been significant diagnostics, there is never 'nothing the vet can do' for diarrhea - some vets care a lot more than others

You need to have a fecal sample done, ask the vet for a sample bottle as some parasites can show some days and not others - put several samples in the liquid in the bottle and make sure its covered by the liquid so that it is preserved. Then take it for testing.

Ask about having your cat dewormed, there are many general purpose dewormers that wont hurt if they dont have worms but help if they do that shelters use to deworm all cats that come in.

As KaiBengals mentioned above, change her diet and be strict about what she eats, no going outside where others could be feeding her or she could be catching wildlife, no treats or humane food etc
post #8 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Bengals View Post
This is what I would do if I had a cat with the symptoms you subscribe and my Vet was stumped.

1. Consult another Vet for second opinion and rule out parasites again with another fecal test.

2. Start administering a good probiotic paste or gel immediately.

3. Find a canned food that has NO wheat gluten in it. Feed that and that only. Eliminate the dry food altogether.

4. Withold food for 24 hours, then feed small portions several times a day, versus 2 big meals. Gradually increase portion size and wait longer between feedings.


Especially the new vet part. "nothing we can do" what hogwash.

At the very least probiotics, diet change, and sub q fluids to start.

Blood work to check organ function, including thyroid.

Welcome to the forum! Please do stick around and let us know how Mischa is doing.
post #9 of 32
I also would suggest a second opinion. Also, ask them to do a fecal test for giardia and TF, Tritrichomanas Foetus.

http://www.highgait.com/page/page/3485008.htm

You can also do a search here in the health forum for chronic diarrhea and you'll find TONS of posts on the subject.

Secondly, have the vet run blood tests for senior cats to check for any abnormalities that might be contributing to the problem.

Thirdly, talk to your vet about a probiotic. I noticed that you're in Scotland, so I'm not sure what you have access to, but I've used plain acidophilus capsules. I open up the capsule and sprinkle half the capsule into wet food twice a day. It has helped tremendously when one of my girls have had diarrhea caused by antibiotics or eating something that disagreed with their tummy (like ice cream remains!).

The suggestion about changing food is a good one, too.
post #10 of 32
Yeah, I was going to say to test this cat for TF too...

What is she eating now, out of curiosity? Have all the allergies been ruled out? If so, how?

What about IBD? Has she been tested?
post #11 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
Yeah, I was going to say to test this cat for TF too...

What is she eating now, out of curiosity? Have all the allergies been ruled out? If so, how?

What about IBD? Has she been tested?
The above all very good points and questions ... the answers may help guide us to give ideas better ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Bengals View Post
This is what I would do if I had a cat with the symptoms you subscribe and my Vet was stumped.

1. Consult another Vet for second opinion and rule out parasites again with another fecal test.

2. Start administering a good probiotic paste or gel immediately.

3. Find a canned food that has NO wheat gluten in it. Feed that and that only. Eliminate the dry food altogether.

4. Withold food for 24 hours, then feed small portions several times a day, versus 2 big meals. Gradually increase portion size and wait longer between feedings.
Great ideas ...
Find a New Vet ! Run a fecal with the TF test also

Be careful as probiotics can make the issues worse at least temporarily( do not give them with a antibiotic as the antibiotic will kill them off too )


Find a canned food With One meat and one starch or grain ( avoid wheat , soy and fish as they are the tops in food allergens)

IMHO try 12 hours no food but 24 is not unheard of
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanietx View Post
I also would suggest a second opinion. Also, ask them to do a fecal test for giardia and TF, Tritrichomanas Foetus.

http://www.highgait.com/page/page/3485008.htm

You can also do a search here in the health forum for chronic diarrhea and you'll find TONS of posts on the subject.

Secondly, have the vet run blood tests for senior cats to check for any abnormalities that might be contributing to the problem.

Thirdly, talk to your vet about a probiotic. I noticed that you're in Scotland, so I'm not sure what you have access to, but I've used plain acidophilus capsules. I open up the capsule and sprinkle half the capsule into wet food twice a day. It has helped tremendously when one of my girls have had diarrhea caused by antibiotics or eating something that disagreed with their tummy (like ice cream remains!).

The suggestion about changing food is a good one, too.
Great link
post #12 of 32
Thread Starter 
hiya! errmm right now she is on asda's (part of the wal-mart group) own brand of wet and dry cat food called tiger.

i'm not sure what the ingredients of them are i have tried to research them but i can't find a webpage to give you guys.

all the other cats are fine with the food and have never had any porblems but then again Mischa always has to be different! i spoil that cat rotten! lol

as for tests and such, there was tests done to see what her kidney functions were like, i'm not sure about allergies, but all i can remember the vet saying was that she was taking her bloods for kidney testing and nothing unusual came back. she gave me white liquid meds called Kaogel, and all it does as i said is block her up for a couple of days, it doesn't seem to do much for the problem just kinda postpones it as such.
post #13 of 32
Sharky can be more help on the food, I found the ingredients but its not a linkable page so here they are

DRY

Blue Packaging - Fish
Cereals , Derivatives Of Vegetable Origin , Meat And Animal Derivatives , Oils and Fats , Minerals , Yeasts , Fish and Fish Derivatives (Min 4% Salmon in the Nugget, min 4 % Tuna in the Nugget with the Tuna) , Various Sugars , Mollucs and Crustaceans (min 4% Shrimp in the Nugget with the Shrimp) , Coloured with EC Additives .
Typical values \tTypical Analysis \t
Protein \t30.0% \t
Oils and Fats \t10.0% \t
Fibre \t4.0% \t
Ash \t8.0% \t
Vitamin A \t12000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t1000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin E \t80mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t10mg/kg

--------------------

Red Packaging - Duck, Rabbit, Vegetable
Cereals , Derivatives Of Vegetable Origin , Meat and Animal Derivatives (min 4% Duck in the Nugget with Duck, min 4% Rabbit in the Nugget) , Oils And Fats , Minerals , Vegetables (Min. 4% Peas in the Nugget with Vegetables) , Yeasts , Various Sugars , Coloured with EC Additives .
Typical values \tTypical Analysis \t
Protein \t30.0% \t
Oils and Fats \t10.0% \t
Fibre \t4.0% \t
Ash \t8.0% \t
Vitamin A \t12000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t1000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin E \t80mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t10mg/kg

----------------

Yellow Packaging - Chicken
Cereals , Derivatives Of Vegetable Origin , Meat And Animal Derivatives (min 4% Chicken in the Nugget with Chicken, min 4% Turkey in the Nugget with Turkey) , Oils and Fats , Minerals (min 1% Calcium) , Yeasts , Various Sugars , Coloured with EC Additives
Typical values \tTypical Analysis \t
Protein \t30.0% \t
Oils and Fats \t10.0% \t
Fibre \t4.0% \t
Ash \t8.0% \t
Vitamin A \t12000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t1000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin E \t80mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t10mg/kg

and WET

yellow
Meat And Animal Derivatives (Chicken min 4%, Turkey min 4%) , Cereals , Minerals , Coloured with EC Additives .
Typical values \tPer 100g \t
Protein \t6.5g \t
Oils and Fats \t5.0g \t
Fibre \t0.4g \t
Ash \t2.5g \t
Moisture \t80.0g \t
Vitamin A \t2000 iµ/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t200 iµ/kg \t
Vitamin E \t16mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t1mg/kg

------------------

Red
Meat and Animal Derivatives (Rabbit min 4%, Chicken min 4%) , Minerals , Various Sugars , Coloured with EC Additives .
Typical values \tPer 100g \t
Protein \t7.0g \t
Oils and Fats \t4.5g \t
Fibre \t0.4g \t
Ash \t2.5g \t
Moisture \t83.0g \t
Vitamin A \t2000iµ/kg \t
Vitamin D \t200 iµ/kg \t
Vitamin E \t16mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t1mg/kg

---------------------------
post #14 of 32
There is a chart on this page (about half way down) that shows you the symptoms of different things that can cause diarrhea - if you know what to look for it help your vet diagnose her.
http://www.peteducation.com/article....+2122&aid=3573

With some meds, they just dont agree with certain cats, it often takes a few tries to get one that works for that animal (just like people), its basically like you taking peptobismol or imoodium - it works for some but not others but you still have to take care of the underlying condition causing it, it just stops it for a short while for relief
post #15 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by beccamacs View Post
hiya! errmm right now she is on asda's (part of the wal-mart group) own brand of wet and dry cat food called tiger.

i'm not sure what the ingredients of them are i have tried to research them but i can't find a webpage to give you guys.

all the other cats are fine with the food and have never had any porblems but then again Mischa always has to be different! i spoil that cat rotten! lol

as for tests and such, there was tests done to see what her kidney functions were like, i'm not sure about allergies, but all i can remember the vet saying was that she was taking her bloods for kidney testing and nothing unusual came back. she gave me white liquid meds called Kaogel, and all it does as i said is block her up for a couple of days, it doesn't seem to do much for the problem just kinda postpones it as such.
Ok, you really need another vet PRONTO, ASAP. Nothing has been done for this kitty...
This vet never even put her on Metronidazole? An antibiotic that is widely used for chronic diarrhea? Very strange... IMO your cat has been mistreated by this vet. I am sorry for telling you this...

Also, from this post, and the post with the food ingredients, I come to the conclusion that if your cat has either Allergies or IBD, she is completely out of luck, and the problem will persist in the diet. (BTW, they are pretty vague with the ingredients in there, huh?)
Anyways, you don't really want to test for allergies, as it will break your bank - it is VERY $$$, and not 100% reliable...
What I would do now, is look for a food that has a SINGLE ONE protein, and no grains and put her on it. Chicken and Peas, Venison and Peas, Rabbit...
These diets are called "Limited Ingredients Diets", and will indicate that are made for allergic cats. You do not need prescription diets, but you will NOT find this on Wallmart, or in surpermarkets. Go to a pet supply store.
Read the ingredient list carefully, to make sure there is only ONE type of meat.
Make sure there is no soy, NO FISH, no wheat, no corn.
You want her to eat this diet ONLY, nothing else for at least 6-8 weeks. No treats, no nothing. If the diet is chicken and pea, you can give her freeze dried chicken as treats, but no "chicken" flavored treats, as they contain many other ingredients.

After your cat is on this diet for a while, you can start to add one protein at a time. You will then see what protein gives her a reaction, by causing diarrhea.
You then remove that from her diet, let her get better, and give it to her again. If she has diarrhea again, you found the culprit. From that time on, you can feed the foods without that ingredient in her diet.

A great way to avoid problems, if she has IBD, is removing Grains, wheat gluten, and if she has allergies, whatever she is allergic to. Probiotics and Enzymes are also great. That is how I keep my boy healthy.

Good lucky!
post #16 of 32
Do you have an actual pet store near you rather than a grocery store?

They would have more premium brands such as James Well Beloved or at least the sensitive versions of Royal Canin
post #17 of 32
Thank you for the ingredients ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
Sharky can be more help on the food, I found the ingredients but its not a linkable page so here they are

DRY

Blue Packaging - Fish
Cereals This can from my understanding be any grain and likely switches bag to bag to what ever is cheapest, Derivatives Of Vegetable OriginIn my understanding this is vegetable by products ( ie what most of us take off and throw away... Cats need very little vegetable matter 3-5% total this being the second ingredient usually means 20-30% of the Bag , Meat And Animal Derivatives animal by product which is mostly bone in a dry form, Oils and Fats , Mineralswhat is the source , YeastsThis IMHO is a Higher allergen than any Grain or meat , Fish and Fish Derivatives (Min 4% Salmon in the Nugget, min 4 % Tuna in the Nugget with the Tuna) by products of fish and at least 8% of them are salmon and tuna BIG allergens, Various Sugars cats have NO need for sugar of any kind , Mollucs and Crustaceans (min 4% Shrimp in the Nugget with the Shrimp) this included the shells ?able to me , Coloured with EC Additives Second to yeast IMHO the biggest allergen in this and many formulas.
Typical values \tTypical Analysis \t
Protein \t30.0% \t
Oils and Fats \t10.0%
low IMHO \t
Fibre \t4.0% \t
Ash \t8.0% most foods are 5.5 to 7.5 %\t
Vitamin A \t12000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t1000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin E \t80mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t10mg/kg

--------------------

Red Packaging - Duck, Rabbit, Vegetable See above this is not better
Cereals , Derivatives Of Vegetable Origin , Meat and Animal Derivatives (min 4% Duck in the Nugget with Duck, min 4% Rabbit in the Nugget) , Oils And Fats , Minerals , Vegetables (Min. 4% Peas in the Nugget with Vegetables) , Yeasts , Various Sugars , Coloured with EC Additives .
Typical values \tTypical Analysis \t
Protein \t30.0% \t
Oils and Fats \t10.0% \t
Fibre \t4.0% \t
Ash \t8.0% \t
Vitamin A \t12000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t1000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin E \t80mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t10mg/kg

----------------

Yellow Packaging - ChickenYikes this is worse
Cereals , Derivatives Of Vegetable Origin , Meat And Animal Derivatives (min 4% Chicken in the Nugget with Chicken, min 4% Turkey in the Nugget with Turkey) , Oils and Fats , Minerals (min 1% Calcium) , Yeasts , Various Sugars , Coloured with EC Additives
Typical values \tTypical Analysis \t
Protein \t30.0% \t
Oils and Fats \t10.0% \t
Fibre \t4.0% \t
Ash \t8.0% \t
Vitamin A \t12000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t1000 IU/kg \t
Vitamin E \t80mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t10mg/kg

and WET

yellow
Meat And Animal Derivatives (Chicken min 4%, Turkey min 4%) , Cereals , Minerals , Coloured with EC Additives .
Typical values \tPer 100g \t
Protein \t6.5g \t
Oils and Fats \t5.0g \t
Fibre \t0.4g \t
Ash \t2.5g \t
Moisture \t80.0g \t
Vitamin A \t2000 iµ/kg \t
Vitamin D3 \t200 iµ/kg \t
Vitamin E \t16mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t1mg/kg

------------------

Red
Meat and Animal Derivatives (Rabbit min 4%, Chicken min 4%) , Minerals , Various Sugars , Coloured with EC Additives .
Typical values \tPer 100g \t
Protein \t7.0g \t
Oils and Fats \t4.5g \t
Fibre \t0.4g \t
Ash \t2.5g \t
Moisture \t83.0g \t
Vitamin A \t2000iµ/kg \t
Vitamin D \t200 iµ/kg \t
Vitamin E \t16mg/kg \t
Copper as Cupric Sulphate \t1mg/kg

---------------------------
IMHO you can find way better ... Hopefully the EU members will give some ideas


As for IBD and grains well depends on the cat ... In my case two with it no grains cost me $$$ in surgery bills
post #18 of 32
Tiger dry food really isn't good quality, the only dry food I would buy from Asda is Purina, and that is only a last measure - Pets at Home do some good dry foods, but just watch which one you get - you want either their Purely range (looks cheap in a cardboard box, but the ingredients are similar to JWB but not as pricey), or I think it is in a silver bag - it is normally on BOGOF around Bank Hols - they do an excellent return service and do take back open food and refund you. JWB do give free samples from their website.

Because of her age, I would also ask the new vet to do an ultrasound of her abdomen.
post #19 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post

As for IBD and grains well depends on the cat ... In my case two with it no grains cost me $$$ in surgery bills
Sharky, I don't understand your sentence... sorry... You are saying that the IBD cats that were put in a NO grain diet needed to have surgery because of the diet? Is that what you are saying?
post #20 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
Sharky, I don't understand your sentence... sorry... You are saying that the IBD cats that were put in a NO grain diet needed to have surgery because of the diet? Is that what you are saying?
Pm me .. All I can say is NO issues since adding the grains back in ... Do I blame the no grain food , NOT at all .. Just the old blanket of NO grains for IBS or IBD cats is mistaken
post #21 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Pm me .. All I can say is NO issues since adding the grains back in ... Do I blame the no grain food , NOT at all .. Just the old blanket of NO grains for IBS or IBD cats is mistaken
I have a request on this one though... Let's be public, instead of PM'ing, so we can help the OP... This is for her cat

I am not putting a blanket on the issue - I do however, believe that it is part of a group, that can be the issue - and when I addressed the issue, I addressed IBD + Allergies, not IBD alone, and grains are an issue too... We don't know that this cat has IBD. We don't know it has allergies... We are trying to eliminate all the possibilities, and grains can be a problem, so... IMO, take it off too.

so, In her current situation, I do think that eliminating grains and putting her cat on a one protein diet, adding probiotics and a new vet would be an excellent start.
post #22 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
I have a request on this one though... Let's be public, instead of PM'ing, so we can help the OP... This is for her cat

I am not putting a blanket on the issue - I do however, believe that it is part of a group, that can be the issue - and when I addressed the issue, I addressed IBD + Allergies, not IBD alone, and grains are an issue too... We don't know that this cat has IBD. We don't know it has allergies... We are trying to eliminate all the possibilities, and grains can be a problem, so... IMO, take it off too.

so, In her current situation, I do think that eliminating grains and putting her cat on a one protein diet, adding probiotics and a new vet would be an excellent start.
Yes, I would say NO grains would be good to try in the OPs case... One meat one starch... Since she is in the EU it may have to be a one meat one grain as many of the "best" foods are not avail... Meats are also a problem but your not taking those out? Sorry but that is why my recommendation was One meat with One grain or starch .. For this cat in question just going to a more basic and clear on true contents would be like most of us going to a no grain

I would not use a probiotic until seeing a new vet and running further tests , but a better food would be helpful IMHO for overall health
post #23 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
..............................................
I would kick out peas since vegetable by products are the second ingredient and are a Known allergen( No do not ask why allergy foods rely on them )

To the OP I would suggest a beef or rabbit formula with as little grain as possible .... Carolina is correct on use a no grain if you can
post #24 of 32
To be honest this problem could be any number of things.....a vast number of things, especially in an older cat.
Everyone who has posted has suggested good things to try and good things to think about, but I'm sure the person who started this thread is going to feel overwhelmed with the input and some of the contradictions.

I think we all agree about one thing for sure.......taking the cat to another Vet for a second opinion and have some fecal tests done in order to establish a good place to start treating this cat. Parasite infestation needs to be ticked off the list first. The fecal panel should also include a dry smear that checks for rods (bacterial infection).

Once that has been done and the cat is cleared, moving on to other suggestions would certainly be advised.
post #25 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Bengals View Post
To be honest this problem could be any number of things.....a vast number of things, especially in an older cat.
Everyone who has posted has suggested good things to try and good things to think about, but I'm sure the person who started this thread is going to feel overwhelmed with the input and some of the contradictions.

I think we all agree about one thing for sure.......taking the cat to another Vet for a second opinion and have some fecal tests done in order to establish a good place to start treating this cat. Parasite infestation needs to be ticked off the list first. The fecal panel should also include a dry smear that checks for rods (bacterial infection).

Once that has been done and the cat is cleared, moving on to other suggestions would certainly be advised.
Yes and Great detail about the dry smear as many of us would not think to ask
post #26 of 32
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your input everyone! i'm going to get her to another vet asap, i can't stand seeing my baby girl like this anymore!

but the putting her on a special diet would be quite a big problem, as i have four other cats who tend to eat out of each others dishes...

therfore she will no doubt go eating out of the others dishes too and i wouldn't be able to coup her up in one room for the rest of her life just to get this diet working... so i may have a problem with that.. but we'll see...

but i will do as much as i can tests wise because i know a lot of the ones you all had mention had never been done. especially the TF one, i have printed out the sheet to take with my to the vet and ask if they will do the test...

lots of lovein' for you help people!

and i'll let you know how i get on

post #27 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by beccamacs View Post
Thanks for your input everyone! i'm going to get her to another vet asap, i can't stand seeing my baby girl like this anymore!

but the putting her on a special diet would be quite a big problem, as i have four other cats who tend to eat out of each others dishes...

therfore she will no doubt go eating out of the others dishes too and i wouldn't be able to coup her up in one room for the rest of her life just to get this diet working... so i may have a problem with that.. but we'll see...

but i will do as much as i can tests wise because i know a lot of the ones you all had mention had never been done. especially the TF one, i have printed out the sheet to take with my to the vet and ask if they will do the test...

lots of lovein' for you help people!

and i'll let you know how i get on

Can they all eat James Well Beloved? I think that would improve her diet considerably already...
There is no problem for all the cats to be on those diets, BTW... They are not prescription...

But yes, VET change ASAP!!!
Good luck!!!!!
post #28 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
Can they all eat James Well Beloved? I think that would improve her diet considerably already...
There is no problem for all the cats to be on those diets, BTW... They are not prescription...

But yes, VET change ASAP!!!
Good luck!!!!!
It is a solid food for most cats of course discuss this with the new vet
post #29 of 32
One thing to be careful of with JWB is that it is quite rich, I have had lots of fosters who have had to have very gradual introductions to it, and my female with diarrhea issues (hers are due to intestinal lymphoma) cant tolerate it at all anymore, although she can tolerate Purina.
post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by booktigger View Post
One thing to be careful of with JWB is that it is quite rich, I have had lots of fosters who have had to have very gradual introductions to it, and my female with diarrhea issues (hers are due to intestinal lymphoma) cant tolerate it at all anymore, although she can tolerate Purina.
which Purina if I can ask ?
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