Strange notion of living quarters for breeding cats

I met a guy, starting to breed cats, who wants Bangels, Folds, & Munchkins. Fortunately I don't have any of those. He wanted to see my cat set up, & how I house my toms. I'm got walk-in indoor/outdoor runs. I think they are nice for cats, & told him sure he could see them. I also let him see my kittens in the house, & queening arrangement.
I had an amazeing conversation with this man. His idea of a cat house, is a 16 X 8 shed. Designed for easy cleaning, with outside runs. Doesn't sound too bad until he explained his outside runs as being plastic coated wire, 18 in. OFF the ground !!!!! I told him he needed to have some sort of surface over the wire, so the cats wouldn't have to walk on the wire. Then he told me, that the cats would "do their job" on the wire, which would be hosed off every day. He has 4 in. of pee gravel under his wire.
It gets worse. Not only are the cats going to be walking on wire, they will have NO Litter Boxes !!!!!!! and he is going to have 10 queens with one tom in each pen !!!!!!!!
I asked him where he was going to keep the mother's when they all had their babies at the same time. I got a "blank look" for that question. It seems he has multiple Amish families wanting to "raise cats" for the wholesale market. Apparantly they are building these cat houses.
I did tell him he was going way overboard, and should just start with a couple of cats & see how it goes, and see if he likes it after a couple years. Then he proceeded to tell me he already had 14 black female cats. "barn cats?" I'm not sure what they were, or why he kept them, but he was discussing breeding those with some Ragmuffins he had aquired.
He gave me his address & said I could stop by anytime to see his cats. I think I'll wait until spring, and then vist. I'm having a difficult time trying to imagine what it will look like. 11 adult cats in a 5ft.X 4ft. wire cage. Sitting over the fumes of cat poo that is laying in the pee gravel beneath them.

Bluekat. . . I am shuddering reading this horrifying tale. I hope this creature of a man was pulling your leg. If this guy was for real. . .this is really very serious.

Please don't go over there alone. Please contact someone who is knowledgeable about animal rescue — not an animal hoarder — but someone who legitimately is interested in animal welfare. I don't think it would be wise to get mixed up with this sort of person. . .he doesn't sound like he was interested in animal welfare one iota, only animal production.

Just horrible.

Call the SPCA this person is starting a kitten mill. I would turn him in as soon as possible to keep his hands off any poor helpless cats.

That really sounds like it is bordering on animal cruelty right there. I would take someone else with you, as suggested, who could witness. It sounds like a kitten mill whether he intends it to be or not. He might be a totally unaware human being in it for the money, or he might be clueless on really how to manage something like this. Either way he should be stopped if he is cramming a lot of animals in a tiny space with poor sanitation.

Shudder! This sounds awful and I hope he can getted stopped before he gets started.

How anyone could think like that is beyond me... some people either downright cruel or just plain stupid.

Please report this man, don't try to deal with him alone- if someone can think this way with animals...
Some people....

Not only is the design poor, but this fellow has told you enough to indicate he has no care/understanding of the importance if breeding, of breeding to a standard, probably has no intention of showing, certainly not for registering (not that he'll be able to when mixing purebred animals with domestic in established breeds), wouldn't know a kitten contract if it bit him and will sell to pet stores or any whoha who will write a check for the amount he requests.

I could say so much more but it wouldn't be polite

Pat and Alix
http://www.catniptoys.com

Holy Moly! Thats awful, awful, awful. Can you imagine how hot it would get in a metal shed during the summer!!! I dont even know what to say...bluecat, do you mind if I tell some other people about this, people that breed folds, I dont know any munchkin or bangel breeders but I know some fold people and I would like to give them a heads up.

The man is vary serious & also "proud" of his intended cat farm. His kittens will all be shipped to Penn.,NY.& west. I can't do anything until these cages with cat houses are actually there & full of cats. He had one delivered last week, & another was supposed to show up soon. That's why I'll have to give him a few months. I'll take my camera & husband with me. I'm sure I can be polite & tell him what wonderful pens of cats he has, while I take pictures.
With wholesaleing, he's going to at least have to follow USDA regulations, & I thought they required sufficient litterboxs, but maybe not.
Unfortunately you can't charge someone with something before it happens. I figure if the man gets enough rope, he'll hang himself. The 20 or so cats that it sounds like he has so far, he's probably taking care of, but by the time he triples that amount & next springs breeding season is here, he'll be way in over his head.
He showed up in this nice new mini van, with a couple of nicely dressed granddaughter's. They looked to be about 10 & 13. The girls played with my kittens & liked my cats. I've got a notion that if their grandpa has a ton of cats crammed in a cage, they will be blabbing at school.

Originally posted by MandoPlayer
Holy Moly! Thats awful, awful, awful. Can you imagine how hot it would get in a metal shed during the summer!!! I dont even know what to say...bluecat, do you mind if I tell some other people about this, people that breed folds, I dont know any munchkin or bangel breeders but I know some fold people and I would like to give them a heads up.

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He's buying bangels in MO. Someone who has 6 adult bangels has 3 litters due in about 2 weeks. He's buying breeding kittens from that person, but didn't tell me a name or town. Tell anyone you'd like. He sounds & looks like a nice person. It's after you talk to him awhile that you discover his plans. Ways to identify him, his wife just recently died in the last year. He has a Amish friend with 100 dogs. he is not Amish, but appears to have money.

What concerns me, greatly, is that it sounds as if he is buying pedigreed, registered cats...no reputable breeder would sell to someone with these intentions - of mass producing with no care for the emotional development of the kittens, or the emotional health of their breeding cats, for volume and a price tag. He is planning a business that is only a business, with no care or love for the breeds involved, and that is not what most breeders who love their breed are about.

You might wish to write a letter to the chair of the breed committee/council for each of the involved breeds, in CFA/TICA. Breeders need to know this person is not what he seems.



Pat and Alix
www.catniptoys.com

PLease email me his name and state where he is located. I don't want my babies endending up in his hands. Thank you

He's buying bangels in MO. Someone who has 6 adult bangels has 3 litters due in about 2 weeks. He's buying breeding kittens from that person, but didn't tell me a name or town. Tell anyone you'd like. He sounds & looks like a nice person. It's after you talk to him awhile that you discover his plans. Ways to identify him, his wife just recently died in the last year. He has a Amish friend with 100 dogs. he is not Amish, but appears to have money.

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Ok, Im in Nebraska which, depending on where in Missouri he is at, isnt too far for him. I know two breeders of Folds near here, one is in Kansas City. I will give both of them a heads up.

Pat & Alix, most breeders wouldnt, but if they dont talk to him enough to get all this information out, they might think its a good place. It sounds like Bluekat talked to him for a while, people can cover these things up until you talk to them for a long time.

I'm not questioning Bluekat's assessment at all! I'm emphasizing what a bad apple this sounds like to me, having lots of experience with breeders/show folks, I know there are those that I will never understand why they are involved with cats(or dogs or horses or...

All I can say is I hope the breeders he contacts will be as careful as those with American Curls are. Folds, Munchkins and Bengal folks are aware these are some of the more unusual/rare breeds and subject to those who think they'll make some money fast. So I hope they'll ask enough questions (i.e. how long has he been breeding cats, why is he breeding cats, why this breed? Is he breeding to show, if not, then again why is he breeding? Does he know the standard for the breed he's asking to purchase, any health issues associated with the breed, how to develop a sound, healthy breeding program, etc.)

Pat and Alix P. Curl

As a Munchkin breeder, and all around general lover of felines, this is pitiful!! Have you any idea where he plans to get Munchkins from?
I will alert AACE, as well as ACFA! If you don't mind would you please PM me his name and all other pertinantr info to me as well. I will contact EVERY Munchkin breeder of his intentions.

This is disgusting and very sad.

I breed Persians and I would NEVER house my cats like this, every cat we ever sell has strict guidelines.

Samantha