Fighting with Daughter; Give it to Me Straight

Originally Posted by libby74

Yes. They may not seem huge to anyone else, but this is my daughter I'm talking about.

My DD wasn't the first (or the second) girl he's given a promise ring. His last gf told my DD to be careful of him, that he is clingy and controlling. A member of his family told my DH that the guy had stalked that gf---until he started dating our daughter. She has caught him in lies, but always makes an excuse for him. To his credit, he's had a full time job for 2 years, but doesn't have a penny in the bank. He's had several accidents in the past year or so that he's begged the other people not to report. His parents pay them off and he reimburses them (supposedly). He is the ultimate "Mommy's Boy", even DD admits that. His excuse for drinking to excess is this: his best friend was killed in a drunk driving accident (of course). A year later to the day, he was arrested at an underage drinking party. He told DD he was "celebrating his friend's death". Of course, he'd already been arrested on alcohol charges before that.

The alcohol and probable drug abuse are just the tip of the iceburg. He is immature and irresposible but, as his Mom wrote about him on facebook, "If I had 2 sons he'd still be my favorite."

Did I mention his family is a little odd and complete enablers?

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Wow, that sounds so much like my ex boyfriend it's scary.

Secondly, I don't think you should lie to her father about this guy and his problems. It isn't fair for your daughter to ask this of you. Just as you don't lie to her, you shouldn't lie for her.

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Sorry, I guess I didn't make that clear. I flat out told DD that I wouldn't keep anything from her Dad and I don't.

Is he her first serious boyfriend?? Were any other men/boys she dated similar in character to him

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DD makes it a habit of planning to marry every guy she dates, and no this isn't her first serious relationship. One of her first bfs adored her, but her friends made fun of her for dating him because he wasn't "a looker", so she broke up with him over the phone. Her first really serious relationship was with a guy who turned out to be such a pothead that he got kicked out of college last year. Just last August she went out with a guy 3 times and was already planning their honeymoon. A month after she broke up with him (because she was paying for all their dates) she met this guy

I think the suggestion of counseling is a great one - in fact, why not have a couple of family sessions as well? Tell your daughter it's for you, not for her.

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We've actually done family counseling in the past for DD's problem with lying. It helped me get a grip on handling her apparent inability to tell the truth, but the lying never stopped.

I know nothing is going to change her mind. After the 'overdose' last week I said to her, "If this had happened before he proposed, would you still have said yes." She looked shocked and said 'no'. Just yesterday she told me that if he screwed up again she wasn't going to wear her engagement ring---but that they'd still 'be in a relationship'. All I could do was shake my head.
DH and I know her better than anyone, obviously, and we're convinced it isn't that she wants to marry this particular guy---she just wants to get married. I've offered her the money we have put aside for the wedding if she'll just go to the courthouse in a week or 2 and get it over with; since they're so in love, why wait a year to get married? They could have the wedding money to start out on. She looked blank for a bit then told me "I want a wedding."

Since she met this guy, it's as if all her plans for the future have fallen---one by one---like a row of dominos. Everything she had talked about doing with her life, her plans for college, her desire to become a police officer, telling me she wants to adopt children some day because she was adopted, everything has fallen by the wayside. Her Dad and I want so much for her and it's so obvious that this guy simply can't provide it.

perhaps your daughter has a self esteem problem

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Not this little girl; she isn't afraid to stand up to anyone about anything. She's adorable and she knows it. I'd say she actually has a pretty high opinion of herself. She believes everyone likes her and is her 'best-bud' and seriously doesn't understand if someone doesn't care to be friends with her.

I know deep down that all DH and I can do is be there to catch her when this all falls apart. I want so desperately for her not to be hurt. This is a girl that rarely cries; when she told me about the 'overdose' last week she broke down and sobbed in my arms for 5 solid minutes. I could have torn that boy apart with my bare hands. Her friends (and the bf) told her how stupid she was for telling me what had happened. It seems that we do still have a bond to some extent, and I don't want to lose that. I guess I need to learn to keep my thoughts about the bf to myself, and help her with her plans.

Oh, I was told yesterday that the bf would really like to get married in Jamaica. Interesting choice for a guy that has no money. I told her to go ahead if that's what they both wanted.

I'm just so tired of all the drama.

Originally Posted by GailC

Is he her first serious boyfriend?? Were any other men/boys she dated similar in character to him. If yes, perhaps your daughter has a self esteem problem.

Does he have a job, have they made plans on finances, where they are to live etc...

He seems to be on a self destructive path and I hope she doesn't join him.

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Your last sentence makes a lot of sense, look what happened to Whitney Houston. She was a nice girl and very talented, then she met and married Bobby Brown who was a drug addict, then she became one and it ruined her career. You live with someone long enough, a lot of times you pick up their bad habits and not the good ones.

If I remember right, your daughter is fairly young...early 20's? And it sounds like she's in "love" with a wedding and with the idea of being in love.

I honestly don't think this wedding is going to happen. They've only been dating 5 months? And the wedding is a year from now? Don't let them go to the court house..let it run it's course and I'll bet she gets tired of all the BS long befo re then.

I'll tell you my story from a daughters point of view. In my early 20's I met a guy that just moved to town. He came from a big city and moved to live with his sister. He claimed to have been in a gang and moved to get away from all that. He is different and exciting and I was roped in. My parents HATED him from the first time they met him (dad told mom he was nothing but a punk....NEVER heard him use that word before!). But, they kept up a good front, invited him to dinner, never said a word to me about how they felt. UNTIL he wrecked my car (I still think he was visiting another girl but that's besides the fact). After that they refused to let him in the house. I still stuck with him, even after he hit me once (I came up swinging) for hugging a male friend. BUT, I finally came to my senses and dumped him! It lasted about 6 months, I was in debt because of him but I was just happy to get rid of him. Actually ME breaking up with HIM ranks up in the top 5 things I've done that made me stronger as a person.

And, it was a learning experience. I don't regret it at all....I guess it was just a phase I was going through.

But, the way my parents handled it helped me come to my own decision. If they had flat out told me "no" I would have rebelled more and probably married the a$$hole. I found out afterward that my mom was on the phone almost every night with my best friend and she told her to NOT interfere. I swear, I think for that half a year mom talked more to my best friend than I did!

Just be there for her now. She knows how you feel...she needs to learn on her own. And be there to help her pick up the pieces when it's all over.

You mentioned that his family is against a wedding also? Maybe it's because they know he's not responsible enough to be married...or husband material, for that matter. Or maybe they are scared they'll end up supporting him, his wife, and future kids. (That's no slight against your daugther - it's just something that seems to happen so frequently now that it may have crossed their minds.)

And maybe your daughter really know the truth about this guy, but thinks she can rescue him, change his life.

I really feel bad for you and wish you and your family the best.

Quoting myself; how odd is that?

Just last August she went out with a guy 3 times and was already planning their honeymoon.

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I talked to one of my nieces this morning; she and DD had discussed this particular guy because he worked as a temp where my niece works. Seems DD had told her this guy was "her soulmate". Two weeks later she dumped him.

You mentioned that his family is against a wedding also?

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Oh no, they're tickled to death about the whole thing! The bf's aunt had never even met DD when they'd been dating for about 2 months, yet was on facebook telling her "how much your new aunt loves you." They are a strange family.

I honestly don't think this wedding is going to happen. They've only been dating 5 months? And the wedding is a year from now? Don't let them go to the court house..let it run it's course and I'll bet she gets tired of all the BS long befo re then.

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From your lips to a higher power's ear. My very Catholic Mom is actually saying a rosary everyday that a break-up occurs and DD doesn't get hurt too badly when it does.

When/if they do break up, I bet it will be hard for her to get a clean break. It was for me, my ex boyfriend was not only a drug addict and alcoholic, but he knew EXACTLY how to manipulate me. I bet she comes to her senses though, before the wedding. She'll just have to be strong when it happens.

Originally Posted by kscatlady

When/if they do break up, I bet it will be hard for her to get a clean break. It was for me, my ex boyfriend was not only a drug addict and alcoholic, but he knew EXACTLY how to manipulate me. I bet she comes to her senses though, before the wedding. She'll just have to be strong when it happens.

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I'm going to tell my "bad boyfriend" story ... it might come to pass in this situation, or not.

By the time I was 16, both of my parents had died. I was given the choice to either live with my brother, his fiance and her 2 kids, or to go to a foster home.

I chose a foster home. However, my choice wasn't honoured and I went to live with my brother anyway.

It was not a good living situation for me. I absolutely hated living there. I was cook, maid, built in free babysitter, personal shopper and the kids' personal driver.

There was no way I could afford to move out. I was 16 when I moved there and was required to pay room and board of $150.00 per month. I was still in school and I was working full time at minimum wage jobs for $1.85 per hour. Not only did I have to pay room and board, but I also had to buy my own personal items (shampoo, clothing, school supplies etc), pay my own prescriptions, eye glasses and dental, and fill up the van's gas tank every time I borrowed it (that was a condition of me using the vehicle).

You have to work a whole lot at $1.85 per hour to earn $150.00. So I had to work a lot in order to not only pay for my expenses, but also to have some social money too. However, the more I earned the more they wanted me to pay. In addition to that they were always short money for utilities and I was always "loaning" them money which I never ever got back.

When I turned 18 even though I was still in grade 12, I was told to either move out on my own (with what? I had no savings because they took most of the money I was making) or pay them $300.00 per month. It wasn't until I got a letter from the government when I turned 18 that I found out where that additional $150.00 sum that they wanted came from. Apparently they had been secretly receiving $150.00 from the government as an "orphan benefit" towards my keep. The government had been giving them $150.00 and they had been charging me $150.00 per month. That's $300.00 they were getting to pay for me (remember, I paid for everything myself on top of all that money). So when I turned 18, had they not demanded that I give them $300.00 per month, they would be losing that amount because the government started to send me that payment instead of them.

Anyway, I was desperate to move out but couldn't afford to

Finally an opportunity presented itself to me in April the following year soon after I turned 19.

I was at a night club with a friend and while in line she bumped into some guys that she worked with. We all spent the evening together and one guy was so charming and funny. Not really the physical type that I used to go for, but he paid attention to me.

Long story short. He was moving up to a city in the northern part of our Province a few weeks later. Two weeks after we met he asked me to go with him. I leaped at the chance.

My brother and his wife were beside themselves. Here I was their meal ticket moving out with a guy that I barely knew! The more they tried to stop me the more determined I was to go. And I did go.

I was so mad at them that when I moved I didn't call them or tell them my address or anything. It was 4 months or so before they found me. I think they either called his place of work or tracked down his family and found me that way.

About a year later I moved back to the city. The relationship was not a good one, but I wasn't going to tell my family that. The guy used to physically, emotionally and mentally abuse me. I knew I should leave, but really, I had no place to go. Going home meant that my brother was right and having to hear "we told you so." And I had no money to move out on my own because while I was living with this guy we were very transient with his job and I was never in one place long enough to get a job.

I loved this guy lots, but I was also afraid of him and dependent on him.

My brother kept hoping that I would break up with him. And he made no bones about how he felt about this guy. And rightly so. The guy was a pathological liar, he stole money not only from me (later when I was working), but also from his own family (he stole his Dad's American Express Card and racked up charges galore). I found out that he was also into heroine, and an alcoholic, and so obnoxiously annoying.

Everyone saw it but me. Well, actually I saw it too, but I didn't want to see it. So I turned a blind eye to it all. I was in love and that's all that mattered.

By this time my family had figured out that I wasn't going to leave him because they told me to. So they sucked it up and started to treat us as a couple even though I know it wasn't easy for them to do. And his family had always been so loving and caring towards me and were happy that I was going to be joining their family. I absolutely loved his family to death!

In 1985 I became engaged to my brother's horror! In fact I had a wedding planned for March 8, 1986.

On October 31, 1985 I finally came to my senses. He had ran up the phone bill and our phone was cut off. He was living out of town at that time, and what he didn't know was that I had went and got another phone connected under my own name (because I was looking for work), but never gave him the phone number. Instead I would go and call him collect from a pay phone at the 7-11 store across the street. On October 31st I finally got up the nerve to break it off with him. The other times I had tried he threatened me with physical harm, or he threatened to kill himself and I was guilted/manipulated into staying with him. I knew it was going to be the same this time too, but he was out of town and somehow I just had enough and knew that if I didn't get out then I never would have.

Anyway, I told him it was over. He had a fit. I hung up on him. He then stalked me for about 6 months. It wasn't until a few of the local biker gang (The Los Bravos) had a chat with him one night while he was sitting across the street watching the 7-11 store that I was working at, that he finally left me alone. It was years later before he was finally out of my life. See I had been living common law with him, so any debts and expenses that he racked up, people came after me for.

It wasn't until around 2000 that I came to realize why I really stayed with him as long as I did. While my family dissing him was one reason, the real reason was that I loved his family and I knew that they loved me too. They gave me what I had always wanted, but never had in a family. Togetherness, love, compassion and just that sense of happiness and belonging. Basically I was in love and marrying his family.

Now I don't know what your daughters youth has been like. But there is something in her background that is driving her. That and the fact that she is constantly hearing how bad this guy is for her etc. etc. etc. She might also be getting something from his family that is lacking in her own family.

I'm telling you, by dissing him to her, all you are doing is driving her away from you and more towards him!

Whether you like him or not, you need to start supporting your daughter, and if that means you biting your tongue and being nice to him and him coming over for family dinners, then so be it.

If your daughter is anything like I was around that age, she will come to her senses in her own time when she's good and ready. You need to get on her side and support her choice, whether you agree with it or not. I firmly believe that had my brother not stopped dissing him to me and barred him from the family so to speak, that I would have married this guy to spite them all regardless of how he treated me...which at the time didn't seem so bad. In hindsight it was awful!

Originally Posted by mrblanche

There was a time, years ago, when I used to listen to Dr. Laura.

Finally, I had to quit. It was just too frustrating listening every day to people (mainly women) who kept on making the same mistakes. And, I'd guess, the same mistakes women have made since they were able to choose mates.

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I still do from time to time...and I know what you mean...seems like about 90% of callers get pretty much the same 5 or so answers. I always find it amazing that they don't hang up from hearing the answer already while on hold. Although maybe some do; I guess we wouldn't know about those ones.

Originally Posted by libby74

I've offered her the money we have put aside for the wedding if she'll just go to the courthouse in a week or 2 and get it over with; since they're so in love, why wait a year to get married? They could have the wedding money to start out on. She looked blank for a bit then told me "I want a wedding."

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I'd go the opposite direction of recommending that she just go to the courthouse...stalling as long as possible will give her more time to come to her senses.

Originally Posted by calico2222

I'll tell you my story from a daughters point of view. In my early 20's I met a guy that just moved to town. He came from a big city and moved to live with his sister. He claimed to have been in a gang and moved to get away from all that. He is different and exciting and I was roped in. My parents HATED him from the first time they met him (dad told mom he was nothing but a punk....NEVER heard him use that word before!). But, they kept up a good front, invited him to dinner, never said a word to me about how they felt. UNTIL he wrecked my car (I still think he was visiting another girl but that's besides the fact). After that they refused to let him in the house. I still stuck with him, even after he hit me once (I came up swinging) for hugging a male friend. BUT, I finally came to my senses and dumped him!

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This. Some people go through phases of learning things the seriously hard way, and there isn't always a clear reason for it.

Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom

I think you should see a counselor for yourself to get some guidance on how to be loving and supportive without enabling. It's a thin line.

Secondly, I don't think you should lie to her father about this guy and his problems. It isn't fair for your daughter to ask this of you. Just as you don't lie to her, you shouldn't lie for her.

Personally I don't believe that parents owe a daughter a wedding. It is a gift, and only to be given if you feel like it. You don't owe it to her.

ETA: Don't worry. She won't spend the next 50 years with him. From what you describe, he'll be dead in 10 yrs, assuming he doesn't stop drinking. And then if that doesn't happen, his drinking and the abuse that goes with it will drive her away in 5 yrs. or less.

JMHO, of course.

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I completely agree. If you really want to do the right thing for your daughter you need to get professional advice on addiction and family members of addicts. Only then will you be able to help your daughter and also yourself. Trust me, I know about families with addicts...

Basically I was in love and marrying his family.

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DH & I have had the same thought. As DD told us the other day, his family is fun. Granted, we're the kind of people that are happy just to spend time with each other, but we have a large extended family and 'have fun' with them. And they all adore our daughter.

Now I don't know what your daughters youth has been like. But there is something in her background that is driving her.

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The first 4 1/2 years of her life were spent in an orphanage, with little (if any) attention or affection. She is extremely considerate of and polite to older people, but seems to have trouble relating to her own age group. She goes thru friends quickly, and never seems to have a "best-bud" for very long. She thinks everyone is supposed to like her, and thinks everyone she meets is her new best friend.

I'm telling you, by dissing him to her, all you are doing is driving her away from you and more towards him!

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We've come to that conclusion, too. I'm going to grit my teeth and be nice. I may have an ulcer by July, but I'm going to try my best.

You're a good mom. It's easy to see from your posts. I'm sure everything will work out!

You're a good mom. It's easy to see from your posts. I'm sure everything will work out!

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Thank you so much! I do doubt myself sometimes, so it made my day to read that.

Originally Posted by libby74

Thank you so much! I do doubt myself sometimes, so it made my day to read that.

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Oh, never doubt that. I could have used a mama like you, and I hope to be a good mama to my baby when he/she comes in September!

Your baby is going to be very, very lucky to have a Mom like you.
Congratulations!

Just one thing - do whatever you can to convince her to be the driver in the family.

Originally Posted by kscatlady

You're a good mom. It's easy to see from your posts. I'm sure everything will work out!

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i agree. i have no sager [is that even a word?] advice than that you've already been given.
i'd agree, also, to delay the wedding as long as possible - she might meet a new 'soul mate' in the meantime!

Originally Posted by Rockcat

Just one thing - do whatever you can to convince her to be the driver in the family.

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Just one thing - do whatever you can to convince her to be the driver in the family.

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DD assures me that he never drinks when he's out with her.
I then ask her if if I have the word "stupid" written on my forehead.

Originally Posted by libby74

DD makes it a habit of planning to marry every guy she dates, and no this isn't her first serious relationship.

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I do wonder if it's a self esteem issue, someone content with themselves is not so desperate to rush into relationships or marriage.

Hopefully she will come out wiser on the other side, once it's over with this latest guy.

Oh man, I feel bad for you. I just got engaged last month, but my family is very happy. I keep thinking about how glad I am that my family likes my fiance. My little sister actually cried when he proposed to me! He proposed to me at his cancer benefit in front of everyone. I personally couldn't be with someone that my family didn't like. My family and their opinions mean a lot to me. I'm not sure how old your daughter is, but maybe she's still pretty young? It's unfortunate that she likes this guy so much even though he's a loser It's really frustrating to see our loved ones with people like him, but there's really nothing we can do about it. Trust me, I've tried to get friends and family not to be with losers

I'm afraid that the only thing you can do is let her be with him. If you keep fighting with her about it, she's going to chose him over you and maybe not talk to you anymore. You don't have to lie to her and say you like him. If she says anything or speaks with you about it, you can tell her you are disappointed and you know she can do better, but leave it at that. Give it time and hopefully she will realize it's a big mistake before it's too late.