Idiopathic Chylothorax & Rutin

No one is being heartless but this is a cat Welfare site... For most on here kitty or kitties = or nearly = human children.... You have a cat with issues , This means You have decisions to make . If your marriage can not handle this then maybe it is time to let the cat go to the rainbow bridge or to a home that is able to care for its needs.

I have full care credit cards and make another payment to my vet to cover surgeries that did Not have 80% success rate. IMHO sit down and talk to you mate then decide.

I will be doing the right thing! I HAVE stood up to my husband, so DON'T think I haven't. You have no idea what I have done or said. People say that it looks like I can afford it, don't live at my house! I'm not working either. Her 80% rate was probably when this started and has probably gone down. I have put it off because both vets said to give the Rutin time to work. I will more than likely put her down the next time I have to bring her in. Hard decision but I love her enough to do the right thing also. I don't have much emotional support around me right now.

What would happen if you put this surgery in the card/carecredit?

I've tried to persuade him, but he says that we just have too many other bills right now. And with me not working, it's making it that much harder to get things paid. He doesn't want to add another one with a "hope" that this will work. I think he believes if it doesn't, then we'll just have the bill for it and no cat. With her being 13, my son has asked how many more years would you get anyway? Umm a lot more. I had a cat live to be 18! They just don't understand!

Originally Posted by TysMom

I've tried to persuade him, but he says that we just have too many other bills right now. And with me not working, it's making it that much harder to get things paid. He doesn't want to add another one with a "hope" that this will work. I think he believes if it doesn't, then we'll just have the bill for it and no cat. With her being 13, my son has asked how many more years would you get anyway? Umm a lot more. I had a cat live to be 18! They just don't understand!

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I understand (even though 80% chance is MUCH more than just "hope"), It still doesn't answer my question.... Let's try again:

If you get your cat, take to the vet, get the surgery, and bill it to carecredit, what will he do? What is going to happen?

Look, you don't need to answer this here on the board... But think about it and answer it to yourself...
You might want to take your husband to talk to the vet, so that the vet can answer all his questions, including about the current procedures she is going through, the surgery, her real chances, so on and so forth... This might help opening his eyes, instead of you trying to persuade him...

Anyways,

That's what I am thinking too, that my husband needs to talk to the vet himself. My husband is out of town for work until Friday but the next vet visit, he will be at!

Originally Posted by TysMom

That's what I am thinking too, that my husband needs to talk to the vet himself. My husband is out of town for work until Friday but the next vet visit, he will be at!

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And I would let him watch the fluid tap procedure too... Call your vet beforehand and tell him you are going to take your husband in so he can set a little more time aside
Good luck!

Took Tigg back in for 234cc fluid tap. The vet brought back the fluid in a dish they use to measure it with and showed my husband how much there was and the color! He told my husband that the surgery is 60-75% effective, but there is that 25% chance it won't be. My husband said that that's what he is afraid of, it not working. I told the vet that my husband is wanting me to put her down before we give the rutin a chance to work or for this to resolve itself and the vet said that time is on Tigger's side. He said that she is doing pretty good under the circumstances and that he will tell me when he believes she's had enough. I have found some great cat food that has high protein and very low fat in it. It's made where they make people food and looks like I could eat it myself! She loves it!
Now if I can just keep this neighbor's cat from getting in thru her kitty door at night to eat all her food. I've tried to lock her in at night but it frustrates her and she tries to open the door and cries. That won't do. Looking for solutions.
BTW the vet didn't charge me for today's visit. I thought that was so nice of him.

Originally Posted by TysMom

Took Tigg back in for 234cc fluid tap. The vet brought back the fluid in a dish they use to measure it with and showed my husband how much there was and the color! He told my husband that the surgery is 60-75% effective, but there is that 25% chance it won't be. My husband said that that's what he is afraid of, it not working. I told the vet that my husband is wanting me to put her down before we give the rutin a chance to work or for this to resolve itself and the vet said that time is on Tigger's side. He said that she is doing pretty good under the circumstances and that he will tell me when he believes she's had enough. I have found some great cat food that has high protein and very low fat in it. It's made where they make people food and looks like I could eat it myself! She loves it!
Now if I can just keep this neighbor's cat from getting in thru her kitty door at night to eat all her food. I've tried to lock her in at night but it frustrates her and she tries to open the door and cries. That won't do. Looking for solutions.

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So... what is the plan? Your husband is still not bending?
What are the chances of this Rutin work, and how long does it take to work? 234cc is a LOT, poor kitty!
IMO this cat can not go out anymore... You need to keep her in... She will get frustrated for a few days, she will get used to it. A feliway plug in can help minimizing her stress... With her condition, she will not be safe outside. Other cats can easily feel that she is sick, and attack her viciously - that is what cats do with sick cats... She can be easily killed by strays outside... Please do not let out any longer....

I just wanted to say that when my grandmother's cat was around 4 y/o he developed idiopathic chylothorax. I don't think his case was very serious since he only had to have the fluid removed a couple times. But he has been on Rutin since then and is doing very well and is now about 10 y/o. He gets 250 mg of Rutin three times a day.

I also had a cat that had chylothorax but it was due to heart problems and/or a possible tumor. One thing I noticed about both my cat and my grandmother's cat is that neither of them tolerated heat very well after they developed chylothorax. It seemed to make their breathing worse, although mine did like to sit in front of a vaporizer.

If she is suffering you need to let her go. Her quality of life sounds not too good at this time. She also has to stay in, other cats will pick up on it and try to and possibly succeed in killing her. Mama never acted sick, she has her intestine hanging out of her rear but as an outside feral cat she knew her life depended on not acting sick. An inside cat is not going to have that survival instinct to hide her illness and Mama was fine except for the prolapse. She was still able to do what she had to do.

When I was 24 I started having horrid stomach pain, barfing, retching and a lot and I mean a lot of nausea. I had to quit my job it was so bad. I cried when I turned in my badge but I was just too sick to do it.

I had doctors appointment and most everything turned out good except the CT scan that showed my stomach was pretty messed up. At the endoscopy they found out that besides being a little red it was fine and I did have stomach ulcer bacteria(actually I still do, couldn't handle the meds but no ulcers at all.) The hediscan showed that there could be something wrong with my gallbladder but who knew.

The surgeon gave me a 50/50 as to it would do anything to make me feel better. They got it out and found it was chronically inflamed and scarred. The scarring was so bad the doctor could see it with his naked eye. I took a 50/50 chance and with everything it came out to about the same amount it would cost for Ty's surgery. He has a better chance than me on it working. Mine also wasn't life or death.

Figure out if Ty has a quality of life and what doing anything further other than surgery will bring him back to. Abby my Old English sheepdog was put down after her liver or spleen burst and she had massive internal bleeding. They could have tried to save her, but my parents had to decide what she would be coming back to. She was 11 1/2 years old(old for an OES), blind(even though she had been blind since 5 so that wasn't even a consideration in this decision, she and we had adapted to it, she was blind longer than she was sighted), what played into it was her severe arthritis. The arthritis meds likely caused her liver or spleen to burst and she had been on them for years(this was totally and completely unexpected, her last blood test had shown her in perfect health.) She had to have help to get up on a non-carpeted surface(and viscously growled about it, but it was all a bluff) and while she was healthy she could keep going as she wasn't ready to go and the vets saw no reason to put her down as she still had a quality of life, now that she was sick it would not be humane to force her through treatment and bring her back to what she lived just because we were going to be selfish and not let her go when she was ready. I have seen too many animals be forced my humans to survive because they are too selfish to let the animal go.

Does Ty have a quality of life? What are you bringing him back to when you have treatment done? If your husband refuses the surgery then you are going to have to decide when enough is enough. Is he suffering when you bring him back or does he still have a great quality of life? Is it fair and humane to continue to treat him? In this case the vet knew Abby had had enough and so did my parents and they knew it was time to let her know. I already knew before we carried her out to the car(she was so weak she couldn't even walk) that this was the end and she wouldn't be coming back home. I remember sitting on the kitchen floor with her when my parents went to get a stretcher to get her to the vet(it had been chewed so we had to use blankets, they didn't want to risk using a chewed up stretcher to support an 80 lbs dog) and told her it was ok to go, I gave her permission to die and her breathing got a lot worse. I told her she would be going to a better place, where she could see and run and play and chase squirrels. This was in Nov 2006 and I'm in tears writing this. I swear the day after she died I saw her walk by the screen door in the backyard. I think that was her saying we did the right thing and she was at peace.

It is hard to let go but you have to know when to say when. Paul had his dog put down in July, she was 17 years old, was having issues going in the house(and refused to use pee pads) her kidneys were going bad, she had bad teeth and she was losing weight yet her abdomen was swollen. She was there because of her teeth because it was obvious she was in pain. She wouldn't have even survived the anesthetic for them to attempt a dental so it was time to let her go. She was still lively as a puppy and had no arthritis issues, in fact she had no arthritis at all, the vet was amazed that at 17 she had zero arthritic changes, her joints were as healthy as they were when she was a puppy. It was just time, her mouth was hurting her and there was nothing that could be done to ease her suffering and with the kidneys, and the weight loss and her abdomen swelling it was her time. Paul couldn't stay in the room when they gave her the shot so I did, I just couldn't let her die alone. If you can stay in the room when they do it please do. I still feel guilty that Abby had to because my parents couldn't bear to stay in the room with her(I was at home taking care of my 4 year old so I couldn't go to her appointment.) I know most people can't but like I said I couldn't let her die alone and felt guilty that Abby did.

You have a choice to make when he has had enough. I and no one else here can tell you when it's time to let him go. Only you and your husband will have to decide when it's time and he has had enough. I just wish he could have the surgery, I would have given anything to have more time with Abby but it was just time to let her go. If there was a 50% chance of her getting better and having a quality of life no price would be too high.

Taryn

I totally agree, please, please keep her in. She has enough problems already without adding being outside to them.

I had a cat attack one of my other cats right before we found out he had a tumor. They sense it, they honestly do. She is compromised as it is. Her strength is not 100% to fight off any other animals.

Don't add to her problems. Being outside is something she will recover from. She will be perfectly fine in a few days. Please keep her in.

Tigger went onto Heaven today to be with my sister and step dad. She will be missed greatly. Only family I had from my side up here and friend. Just thought you'd all be glad to know.

I am so very, very, sorry to hear this...you struggled so hard with your Tigger. I was so hoping she would win this one.

Please take comfort she is with your sister and step dad. She was a lucky girl to have you, and you were so lucky to have her for so many years.

God bless you and your kitty, Tigger.

Originally Posted by TysMom

Tigger went onto Heaven today to be with my sister and step dad. She will be missed greatly. Only family I had from my side up here and friend. Just thought you'd all be glad to know.

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I am so very very sorry fro your loss... I can not imagine your pain, and everything you are going through right now... She was a little fighter, and she fought a brave fight. You will see her again, and she is now your little angel. She is also pain free... But I know nothing we can say will take away your pain...
I am again really really sorry...

Hi, I just found this site when I googled Rutin. I had to read the whole thread because I was hoping for a better end to the story, but it does sound like Tigger was pretty far along in her health problems. My 15-year-old Romeo was having trouble breathing last week, we took him to the vet and they drained 75cc of fluid from his chest. I cannot even imagine your poor baby having 3-4 times that much being drained every week.

Tigger is waiting for you at the Rainbow Bridge, and I hope you've been able to open your heart and home to another deserving kitty (or two!) since then.

We go to the vet where my neighbor is a vet tech, so they must have done some further research since we were there 2 days ago. Yesterday the vet sent a note home with my neighbor for us to try rutin, in addition to the furosemide and an antibiotic. They have not suggested any surgery yet, hopefully we've caught the chyrothorax in its early stages. Now we have to get him used to healthy food! Thank God I just joined the membership club at Pet Supplies Plus and have a ton of coupons.

If the topic of surgery comes up, I don't think hubby & myself would want to put Romeo through that, but we're going to do the best we can for him now. Especially after only one $550 vet bill so far. As long as we have room on the credit cards, Romeo will be kept as comfortable as possible for as long as we have him.

Thanks Sheryl for the condolences. Having to put Tigger down was the most heart breaking thing I have ever done. I still don't know how I made the drive home from the vet. She is buried by our Lilac bush so she is still with us.

After some months, I did get a kitten that I rescued from the local kill shelter. He was a pound and a half when I got him in July of 2010. He is a Tabby Point Siamese and very beautiful. His name is Kimba. He is over a year old now and weighs 11lbs but looks great for his weight. He is a large cat. Kinda like a Tom Cat. Very smart too. I had to take my son's Chihuahua as he is in the Marines and the 2 get along great! "Titan" rules the house though. Titan is smaller than Kimba too.

I have found out that Kimba has a luxating patella on his right knee. I can't believe that I have another kitty that has an unusual problem! Vet said that it's a stage 2 and doesn't need surgery. Told us to get a tall cat tree for him to exercise his legs in hope that strengthening his quads will help center the knee cap. I think my husband and I will build one in the next few weeks. Hoping that this rehab will do the trick. Vet didn't think sugery would help him now or in the future since he is a cat and their bones are so small. We will see. I am 3 hrs from a vet school at WSU so if he gets worse, I will check with them or Texas A&M. My husband and Kimba & Titan get along great! Yay!

I hope your cat will respond well to your vet's treatment. Let me know how it goes. I'll keep your kitty in my prayers.

Even if the vet won't lower his prices, perhaps he'll let you pay in installments.  Can't hurt to ask.  I understand how heartbreaking this is for you.

Hi, I am learning about this ailment also. My cat Jessie has this problem which I had never heard of before. The Vet said that this chyle has been building up for a long time. He is only 4yrs old. The last heat wave we had in Mass. in July seemed to have triggered it to get so bad that I could see he was having trouble breathing. I took him to the VCA hospital and they drained a qt of fluid out of his chest. The vet said from the looks of the chyle he has had this fluid building for a long time. He has lost a lot of weight also. I am so stressed like you. He is one of those special pets that we have during our lifetime. I'm sure you know what I mean. I love all animals but some are special. I have been told to watch him closely. To count his heartbeats when he is resting. It should be about 40 beats per minute. Only when he is resting do you do this. This will tell if he is building up with fluid again. The next step I think will be drains. The vet said sometimes it takes a while before this problem stops. They gave me at the hospital a information sheet about the illness and it mentions rutin. The vet did not tell me to get some or prescribe it. How do we know what dosage to give. We don't without the Vet's instructions. So I won't do it until I ask her. I think she would have instructed me to give it she is so caring. She put Jessie in a window to watch the birds at the feeder to distract him and give him some oxigen to make him comfortable before she started working on him. Just wanted you to know she cares so she definitely would have told me about the rutin. I went on line to see what foods has rutin in it. Fruits have it especially apples. So I have started to put a half teaspoon of Bragg's apple cidar vinegar in a quart of drinking water. I read that animals like the taste. My cats (3) like it and have been drinking it with out hesitation. Read about the benefits of apple cidar vinegar but it has to be the raw. The one I use is Braggs for myself as well. That is all I can share with you. I live on SS and have the same concerns about money. Sometimes there are things more important than money. I may do that Pet Credit thing if I have to. I won't abandon Jessie and I will pray for you and Tigger. I know how you feel. I am in the same place.