"student loans are one of the most toxic debts"

Yup. That's what happens when the person is actively IN the school that the loans are being taken out to pay for. I wonder what the percentage would be if that number were taken out? You know, the people who are actively going to school?

I know quite a few people who are doing that, including my husband, to get into a different field because they either want to improve their station (i.e. a waitress friend who is going for her nursing boards soon), or because the field they were in has become overrun and there aren't any jobs out there right now. DH was in IT, has 15 years of experience but not the college degree because in 1995 all you needed was to not be scared to get in the guts of a computer to get started. He was laid off in April. Most of the ads out there want a college degree, plus 2-4 certifications, and then they'll pay $10-15/hour. That is absurd!

And reading the article, they are talking to a doctor (is it 8 or 12 years of school?). Hmm, I thought they were saying that doctors make way too much money?? Anyway, she made some really poor choices - missing payments, getting loans with $2,000 fees, stuff like that. If you make poor choices, no matter how much the debt is for, you will get in over your head. End of story.

I work in the student loan industry. Yes, there are people who take advantage of the system by having endless forbearances and deferments, but there are people out there who are actively repaying their loan. Deferments do stop interest IF your loan is subsidized. The unsubsidized loans still will accrue interest. I have seen people who have maxed out the hardship and unemployment deferments. (36 months for each) and have had endless forbearances. I have seen loans that were taken out in 1995 that there has not been a single payment. Just forbearances and deferments. The interest alone on these loans are almost as much as the original loan!

But there are changes on the horizon. A new program has been developed for people who go into the public service field. Such as teachers, nurses and others. Only one company (mine) has that program. It is called Public Service Forgiveness Program. All the borrower has to do is make 120 (ten years) of payments and the rest is forgiven! BUT they have to be on the income contingent plan or the new income based. There are now people making a very low payment on a very large loan that will have their remaining balance completely forgiven in ten years.

I know all the ins and outs of the student loan business. They can be a godsend for people who really need them but they can also be a curse. The people in the Financial Aid offices need to get off their butts and tell the students the truth about the student loans and especially about the parent plus loans. I don't know how many times that a parent who took out a plus loan THOUGHT they were co-signing for their kids. NO... they are loans that the parents alone are responsible for. Or the parents with an irresponsible kid who somehow gets their parents' SSN and take out a parent loan when the parent has no idea what their kid did until they get the bills or worse yet, their credit is effected. To get this out of their names, they need to press charges against their own child for fraud. Most of the parents will not do that and just default or pay the loan, but there have been some that will send their kid to jail over it.

Well, I will shut up about this for now. Sorry for the long post LOL

edited to add that I do NOT work for the companies mentioned in the article. The company I work for does not offer private loans and the origination fees are being fazed out.

The past year there was an average of 12 people employed here at once. One had his wages garnished to repay his student loan, the other is at risk of being garnished. Neither of these people are currently in school.

That being said, I did not pay mine back on time. I wasn't able to work in the field for which I went to school. Years ago, I paid my loan back (late) by working 2 waitress jobs.

So, when the balance of the loan is "forgiven," just who gets stuck with the amount that is "forgiven?"

The same people that pay for members of the military to go to college. Which I also support.

I'm a teacher. The cost (even after grants and scholarships) of the schooling I needed to get into this field, and then to rework my skillset to be able to get a job in this economy, in combination with the salary, leaves me three options: move in with my parents to live off of them and delay being an independent adult until the loans are paid off, let the loans default and try to just not care, or get some help. Help took the form of income-contingent repayment and the promise of a writeoff of the balance in ten years.

In the long run, I'd like to make these kinds of programs unnecessary because everyone has a way of getting a decent start in a career without going into debt out of proportion to their likely salary. I'd like to see trade school courses extensively offered in high school so that those who don't need college can go to work right after graduation, and college credit programs for advanced high school students so that those who will definitely go to college can cut a year's expenses out by knocking out some of the general classes, and a more realistic vision of what we're trying to accomplish: we don't need everyone to go to college; we need everyone to have a career. We need to stop pressuring everyone to run up 4 years of debt on underwater basketweaving classes just so they'll have a degree that doesn't count for much any more.

No one is pressuring anybody. People make their own choices in life. People could live at home with their parents for 5 years and work and save every penny to put towards college. The same people could, live at home with their parents while attending college and also have, at least a part time job. There are many ways to attend college without going into massive debt besides the one I just mentioned. (Military) But those ways require effort and I have noticed many young, college age adults don't want to put forth the effort, they want to take the easy way out.

But, we have been down this road before, on this same subject just a few weeks ago. Nothing has changed.

The Youth of America wants Working America to pay their way, 100%, through college. Because, after all, they are entitled to a, free, college education on the American taxpayer dime.

Take a look at my thread on the Unions/Pensions. Education and the Unions are sucking the states dry. Nevada has a one billion dollar shortfall they are trying to figure how to pay for. Budget cuts are absolutely necessary.
Oh boy, education is screaming, yelling and having a fit. Then I hear the cold hard facts, 54% on Nevada's State Budget goes to education and that includes colleges in Nevada

Just how much more broke do the states have to get before the youth of America understands that we cannot afford to give you all a free ride through college.

And all told we probably paid about $300K for his training, housing, meals, equipment, and salary for 3 years and then $40K or so for college. I've got no problem with that if we need soldiers, but if not spending $340K to pay for a person's college education isn't exactly a great investment since we could just pay for 8.5 college educations with the money.

By delaying the education, you're lowering the total amount they'll ultimately contribute in taxes. For example, a single person making 25K a year will pay around $1900/yr in taxes. After the degree if they make say $60K/yr and they pay $8800/yr in taxes. So the 5 year delay will cost $6900/yr X 5 yrs = $34,500 in lost federal income taxes. That's nearly enough to cover the entire 4-year education at a state school. If they have to hold a job during college, that may add 1-2 years onto the degree which makes the numbers even worse.

Yep. Your suggested "fix" was to add about a trillion dollars+ per year to the federal debt by making everyone between the ages of 18 and 20 serve in the military. I guess I'm just too much of a fiscal conservative to think that's a good idea.

No, the "youth of America", at least the subset in question, wants to get an education and get a high paying job. Then they pay taxes on that salary and pay for the next generation. One of the numbers that's tossed around is that a college graduate makes about 1 million dollars more than a non-college graduate over their career. That probably works out to ~150-250K in additional taxes they pay over their lifetime, which more than covers the cost of the education. It's not a hand-out, it's an investment.

And let's not forget, making everyone pay their own way out of pocket means the only people going straight to college will be those from rich families. Like the Charlie Daniels song says, "The rich man goes to college and the poor man goes to work." Funding (at least some % of) college educations gives everyone an equal shot if they earn it by being smart enough, studying hard, and getting good grades rather than preferentially favoring people who were fortunate enough to have been born into a wealthy family.

I won't get into Nevada politics since I don't live there, but I can tell you that The Department of Education accounts for 1.93% of the federal budget. That's not exactly sucking us dry.

What would you have us cut to increase spending for Education? To tell you the truth, I am betting there is much pork that could be cut.

The forgiveness isn't as good as it looks. I'm a public employee and eligible for the forgiveness. I will be starting the income-contingent plan as soon as my forebearance period is over in May (I applied for it because I was the only one working full time at the time while my husband finished his training). I still have to get my loan paid off in ten years- as do most people when they are on that plan, so really, I won't have anything forgiven. Those who will have amounts forgiven don't really see that much taken off. The idea is to encourage people to take the lower paying public service jobs, knowing that they will have some relief for their educations. I don't feel bad about using a forebearance at all.. this loan isn't going away and now that my husband is working we are getting all of our debts paid and will begin to pay the full monthly amount on my student loans. Student loan debt never goes away, even if the borrower declares bankruptsy. They will get their money eventually.

Whichever way you cut it, we end up with a professional/technical workforce that's five years less experienced than their peers from other countries. Either that, or we end up preferentially hiring guys from other countries because they're more experienced and knowledgeable. Either way, it's bad for America.

Wait, what? Look at those two underlined portions. Is a scholarship a hand-out or not? Your thesis seems to be that the only way a person can actually earn their way through college is by going out and getting a job first. You keep telling us that studying hard and getting good grades don't count as "earning it". So which is it?

Defense (or should I say offense). We have enough military to defend US interests and then some. It's the "and then some" that gets us into trouble. It's so large that Presidents are tempted to invade places just because they can. 6% of the DoD budget (not counting the off-budget Iraq/Afghanistan war expenditures) would be enough to pay the tuition for 25% of college aged people in America.

wow, I just love it when people support their opinions with cold hard facts

I'd like to see a program set up as an alternative (or at least significant reduction) to student loans, by which the coursework is spread out over a longer time because the student is also doing valuable work in their field for a stipend that covers their education and living expenses. Graduates who paid for their education through such a program would be ahead of the game both because of their reduced or eliminated debt load and because of having real work experience and skills instead of burgerflipping when they officially start their careers; also, they'd have to grab a clue about what they wanted to do for a career, rather than just picking a random major. The only rule for it is that their internship job would have to combine in a coherent fashion with their major (which would also reduce the number of people who are surprised at the end of senior year that their major's job market is crap).

1. That's debatable.

2. I do not think the size and strength of our military tempts any President to invade places, let alone, "just because they can."

If you are talking about Iraq, you do remember how the United Nations failed with regards to Iraq. 17 U.N. Resolutions against Iraq. Maybe 50 Resolutions should have been the cut off instead of 17. But that is a done deal now.
Afghanistan was a righteous cause and no one will convince me otherwise.

Can you possibly be any more condescending? They're old enough to grab an M-16 and get shot at, but they're too immature to go to college.

The point is this. If all college students have to work for 5 years to pay for college, then they'll be 5 years behind their peers from other countries (who are already kicking our butts in education). So at any given age, the guy from, say, India will have 5 years more experience as a doctor and the American will have 5 years of burger flipping or waiting tables.

It's bad for America because our workforce will either have 5 years less experience in their chosen field or it will be significantly more foreign. And they're not more seasoned. A guy that's 40 will have the same amount of work experience, but more of it will be in completely unrelated fields. I spent 2 years remodeling apartments and I've never said to myself "wow, that job really helped me to be a better engineer." If anything, it's just the opposite.

Who do you think pays for the scholarships? It either comes directly from the government or from the tuition of other students (mostly funded by government loans). Either way, it's a free ride funded by the government. When you can explain why scholarships are OK, you'll have figured out where I'm coming from.

Not really. What do we need to be able to do? Invade three countries simultaneously? Four?

Wait for what? The guy didn't have WMD's and he wasn't even working on them. He also wasn't behind the 9/11 attacks. We had him pinned behind his borders and bombed him every time he rattled his sabers too loudly. In short, he wasn't as threat to us. But now that we've devoted so much of our resources to that fiasco, we've neglected Afghanistan and now that one, the one that we actually had a valid reason for, is tipping on the precipice of failure.

I love this idea...

I have a non federal student loan and they WONT work with me ... I was supposed to be interest only.. he he 75% is on principal ( not a bad thing but ) ... I have not had a regular steady job for over a yr yet I do NOT qualify for a forbearance

You are mistaken about the income contingent plan. It does NOT have to paid off in 10 years. On that plan, you have up to 25 years to pay it off and if any balance is remaining after that, it is written off but you may have to pay income tax on it. Maybe your income is too high thereby making the payments high?

I'm not the best at math, so when I actually get approved for consolidation ( I hope!) I think I'll have a better idea of what I'll be paying. I'm glad it doesn't have to fall into the 10 year pay period! I think my problem is accepting info from other people, rather than directly looking it up myself! Thank you for the info! I'm going to sit down tomorrow, with all of my loans in hand, visit the Direct Loan site, and to try to figure this out.

Student loans are way out of control as a method of paying for higher education.

There are some degrees that pay for themselves or fields that are lucrative no matter what but not all of us are cut out for engineereing or law or medicine.

Many well-deserving professions simply don't earn enough to pay for the loans someone has to take out to cover education.

I am 36 have a masters and have 35,000 in debt. I have at least another 15 years of payoff at the rate of $318 per month. I have never ever been able to get a job in the US paying more than $20,000 a year. I have lived with my parents since college excepting the time when I was in school out of state. My loans have effectively prevented me from starting the career I'd hoped for or re-educating for something more lucrative. As I can't afford to take an entry level position (in my field these are internships either unpaid or a minimal stipend). And there are no jobs within commuting distance of my hometown, so shacking with the folks is not an option.

You might want to check out the income based plan. If you qualify, it has a lower payment and is made especially for the Public Service Forgiveness Program

I'm sorry, I was wrong, Sadaam Hussein was a great guy, he was a wonderful leader that treated his people well.

I was an excellent student (Manga Cum Laude, missed Summa by 0.03 or so IIRC) and got very little from scholarships in undergrad--$1,000 one year, $500 another, amounts like that. Grad school was a little better but the tuition was so much higher (even at a state school) that the scholarships and federal loans together were just barely enough to cover tuition so I had to get private loans to cover my living expenses. There were very few merit-based scholarships available at the schools I chose (community and state colleges, for the most part, to save money).

There might be enough scholarships to really fund everyone who deserves it, if we stopped assuming that everyone should go to college...but there just isn't enough as long as we keep assuming that everyone needs the status symbol to have a decent life. College isn't the gateway any more; people can have just as good a career by going to trade school (or community college "technical" programs--these are usually very affordable). I'm not saying to keep anyone out of college, but I do think that people who have no clue what they're going to do with the education should be the ones to run up loans (or pay out of pocket), and people who are trying to be something that we need and seem to have the ability to pull it off should get a hand up.

Basically, the debt we expect someone to run up to get into a career should be proportionate to what they'll be able to make in that career, and if we need more [fill-in-the-career] than can afford the training by that standard, it's in everyone's best interest if we help them out. My taxes chip in to pay for people's med school and nursing school; I could get hit by a truck or something, so I'm cool with that. My taxes also go to pay for people's art history school because that sounded fun to them; I'm kind of not cool with that.

Color me confused. Let me give you a re-cap of the way this discussion went in the last thread. It should be pretty obvious from the fonts whose quotes are whose.

Take a good look at the underlined parts. You told me over and over that studying hard and getting good grades does not count as "earning it" and that if the American taxpayer pays for your education you're getting a free ride. Now in this thread, you're telling me that a scholarship DOES count as "earning it." Which is it?

I don't think that so many kids should be going to college in the first place. I grew up being taught by family and the school district that college is necessary in order to have a good life.

I don't understand why so many jobs require college degrees. Why can't nursing, x-ray tech, or many computer type careers be treated as a trade?

As many of you know, I ended up going to a trade school and then working my way up to a good welding job that I love. I make more just being 5yrs out of school than a lot of college grads do and I spent less time in school- just 10 months.

If other careers were taken out of the 4yr college program and treated more like trades than there wouldn't be a need for huge loans.

I DO need to address this. He DID have an active WMD program, he just wasn't currently producing. Even his own people said that he was merely waiting for the inspections and sanctions to end so he could go back into production. But that wasn't the ultimate reason for the invasion; it was for his repeated refusal to honor the treaty he signed at the end of the first Gulf War.

As to scholarships, I think the majority of scholarships are actually privately funded.

About half of my college education was paid for with government student loans. When I graduated, I was on a 10-year repayment program, but I got about 50% of it forgiven for teaching high school. I don't know anything about the requirements these days, but I would support a similar program today, if we don't already have it.

But I also think everybody should be required to do a couple of years of public service after graduation from high school, or at age 18, whichever happens last. I'm not saying military service; any public service would do, although I think those who do military service should be paid better for taking the risks it involves. Even two years of sweeping streets or changing bedpans would do most young people a world of good, lower unemployment, and at least teach people to get up in the morning to go to work.

Say what you will about military service, it has long been the best anti-poverty program our government has ever funded.

I was free-associating...what I meant was, if anyone should end up in a hole of debt, it should be people who pick a major thoughtlessly. Of course they should also be fully informed that digging themselves into a hole is what they're doing.

Having slept on it a night or two, I could also support building in the concept of an exploration year (probably in freshman year) because when you have all your general ed classes left to check off, almost anything can be applied to a major plan, and you don't need to start taking specific classes in most majors until sophomore year (it makes it easier to have knocked out the prereqs early so you can move on to having a few solid majors classes sophomore year, but most majors just don't have the long prerequisite strings of required classes--math and some of the sciences are the exception, although people with those interests will usually take those classes in freshman year anyway). Instead of one internship job for the whole year or semester (however that would work), they could rotate through a bunch of things for a month or six weeks each, so that they can find a field that they're interested in and have some aptitude for and that there's at least moderate demand for.