Can somebody just take him out already?! - Page 2

Fair enough, and of course we don't have the What-if-machine to help us validate that had some government entity acted early-on seeing the writing on the wall and intervened, the Tripartite Pact would not have been signed and consequently the Axis powers would not have joined forces in the first place, and therefore WWII would have be averted. That's why I feel that had Hitler been taken out of the equation as soon as it was clear where things were headed, WWII would been averted (and certainly the Holocaust would have been avoided) However, of course I acknowledge that we can't know for sure what would or wouldn't have happened.

going back to one of your earlier posts:

You're right that there have been many genocides that have gone without significant outside intervention. I disagree for your reasoning as to why. Just look at the "Clinton Apology" regarding his failure to do as much as he could have to either prevent or end the genocide in Rwanda. Yes, I said prevent. Before the genocide took place, the UN had received intelligence that the Hutus had armed themselves in preparation for the extermination of the Tutsis. With that said, I'm not necessarily advocating that the U.S. intervene in every genocide that takes place. I tend to think that's more the job of the United Nations to send peacekeepers. I don't think it's right though to just watch as large numbers of innocent people be murdered and say, "Well, I guess it's just none of our business." - but that's just my opinion.

The entire world already hates us. It doesn't matter what we do. If we send military forces to try to end a threat to the entire western world, we're hated by the world. We provide countries with foreign aid and sure, they'll say thanks, but they still hate us. Heck, even recently when we sent folks to Haiti in an attempt to help, going well above and beyond to do what we could, including my alma mater sending an entire hospital's worth of expensive medical equipment over there to set up a makeshift hospital, and one of my father's partners in his medical practice going over there to offer whatever medical assistance he could (he is still there).... even when we do all of this, both France and Venezuela have come out to say that we're "occupying" Haiti. The world is going to hate us no matter whether we do good things or bad things. It doesn't matter what we do. We could send a solid gold ingot to every individual in the world, and they would still hate us. Furthermore, the terrorists are going to attack, or plot to attack no matter what. Violence is all they know. They may claim that their reasons are retaliation against the west for various injustices they feel the west has committed, but ultimately, they kill because they are radicals who have misinterpretted their religion into thinking that they are religiously obligated to kill anybody of any religion other than theirs, and gloss over the portions of the Qur'an that advocate religious tolerance.

How could it come back if it was clandestine? You can't retaliate against an enemy when you don't know who that enemy is. Or am I misunderstanding your point?

The UN may be able to at some point develop some system that would be of help, but unfortunately, I don't have a lot of faith in the UN. To me it seems like they're all bark and no bite. Going back to Rwanda, they knew what was going to happen before it happened and they did more or less nothing.

As for the world hating us, well, I guess we'll agree to disagree. That's ok though. We can all have and express our own views and not be persecuted for them. It's yet another reason why the U.S. is great.

Gotcha. So you're looking at it from an ethical standpoint. Ideally, we wouldn't have to be even considering such a thing. I guess unfortunately, it just comes down to the sad fact that sometimes good people have to do bad things to avoid horrible, evil, and atrocious tragedies from taking place. Other than that, I don't have a rebuttal to your point, as it is valid.

Well, first of all, I beat you to it mentioning that my post was proof that Godwin's law still applies.

Second, you're right about my initial idea of removing a single individual. I realized that was flawed soon fairly quickly, and that's why in many of my posts since then in this thread have referred to eliminating individuals in the plural sense. Obviously, we would have to identify who and try to be responsible by not attacking people who aren't necessary to change the direction the country is moving in towards IMO quickening the pace of the march towards WWIII.

I'm curious as to why you think if Hitler had died between 1940-'44 that things would have been worse? I'm not debating that. Please elaborate as you have me interested. I obviously don't know something that you do. (I'm not being sarcastic)

The only other things I want to say to counter your points, is that we would obviously have to make it a complete mystery who was responsible. You're right that if we made it obvious that we're responsible, it could be potentially disastrous. I disagree though that Ahmadinejad isn't crazy. If it's just an act like you're saying, the guy practically deserves an Academy Award. I'm not going to say flat out that you're wrong. I have no way of knowing. I just have this gut feeling I guess that he's the real deal.... an evil, power-hungry, lunatic.

Lastly, you said:

No argument here on that point. So, how do we treat a disease? Well, let's look at ourselves as an example. If a virus or baterium enters our body, it gets ganged up on by our body's SWAT team. That team is made up of specialists. Some specialists gather information on the invader, others analyze the information, after analysis the next member of the team, who is a bit of a specialist looks at the information from another angle, and also takes another look at the original data itself. After all of that is done, the attack begins. It continues until the last member of the team who has been watching, declares a cease-fire when the threat has been neutralized.

It seems to me that our bodies work pretty similarly to the military, which is why I am saying that this is a military matter and that the military should look seriously at what to do.

I'm somewhat perplexed by that actually. Between watching and reading the news, travelling to other countries, speaking to people from other countries who are vacationing here, etc. - I've just gotten a general, yet solid, impression that we're hated. Additionally, sometimes I get curious and search the net for various types of either anti-semitic or anti-american rhetoric to see what the true hate-mongers are up to and spouting now. It's not hard to find that stuff online. You might have to use Google Translate via the Google Tool bar and add a few extra languages (at the bottom of the page) to help you out, unless you're able to read most languages on your own that is.

If we pulled out right now, it wouldn't end anything. The fight would continue, it would just find its way to American soil.