Torbie and Patched Tabby is the same thing - depends on what the association chooses to use. IMO Torbie is too close to Tortie and I prefer using Patched Tabby
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Tortie, torbie, calico?
- Thread starter nolia
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To the OP Tortoiseshell & White.
From what I can see, she is a torbie. The way you can tell a cat is a torbie instead of a tortie is that since a torbie is a " true tabby" , the tabby pattern shows in the black-based color , not just in the red-based color. A torbie is a tabby with tortoiseshell color.
In TICA she would be called Blue Mackerel Torbie and White .
(Note: I just edited this when I saw you put a side view picture on another thread, so i was able to see which type of tabby pattern.)
Although " dilute torbie" isn't an official color/ pattern name, it is accurate to describe her that way because her colors are dilute versions. Blue is the dilute of Black and Cream is the dilute of Red.
So if you care about the official color names, hers are Blue and Cream.
Silver and cinnamon, though I can see why you would use those words to describe her, actually have different meanings in the cat fancy. Cinnamon is an alternate allele to black; it is quite unusual in non-pedigrees. and it's a deeper red color but oddly enough it is actually a black-based pigment. For multiple reasons you could not have a cat that was both blue and cinnamon. it would have to be one or the other not both
Silver when used in a color/ pattern name, is not exactly a color in the same way . It's when a cat with a tabby pattern also has the Inhibitor gene that inhibits the pigment from the part of the hairs closest to the skin , and it turns the agouti hairs ( that are usually yellowish or tan or tannish-grey) to white or nearly white.
For some dramatic examples of silver, look up Black Silver Classic Tabby American Shorthair, or look up Chinchilla Persian .
In TICA she would be called Blue Mackerel Torbie and White .
(Note: I just edited this when I saw you put a side view picture on another thread, so i was able to see which type of tabby pattern.)
Although " dilute torbie" isn't an official color/ pattern name, it is accurate to describe her that way because her colors are dilute versions. Blue is the dilute of Black and Cream is the dilute of Red.
So if you care about the official color names, hers are Blue and Cream.
Silver and cinnamon, though I can see why you would use those words to describe her, actually have different meanings in the cat fancy. Cinnamon is an alternate allele to black; it is quite unusual in non-pedigrees. and it's a deeper red color but oddly enough it is actually a black-based pigment. For multiple reasons you could not have a cat that was both blue and cinnamon. it would have to be one or the other not both
Silver when used in a color/ pattern name, is not exactly a color in the same way . It's when a cat with a tabby pattern also has the Inhibitor gene that inhibits the pigment from the part of the hairs closest to the skin , and it turns the agouti hairs ( that are usually yellowish or tan or tannish-grey) to white or nearly white.
For some dramatic examples of silver, look up Black Silver Classic Tabby American Shorthair, or look up Chinchilla Persian .
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This is my 8 year-old girl, Hauna. Sorry for the toy in the way, but this was the best pic I could find that is fairly recent of her.
The majority of her patched markings on her sides are focused around her hind-end portion. And the majority of her markings from an aerial view are focused around her front end. She has one tabby ear and one patched ear. Both of her front paws are white, and her pads are a mixed pink and black.
I think she's a torbie? But what would be her official coloration?
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I couldn't see the pictures but from the descriptions I would say tortie.
She also has a leg (with orange tabby stripes) on it.
(no photo)
so does my tortie just one leg on the inside looks like it belongs to an orange cat
She also has a leg (with orange tabby stripes) on it.
(no photo)
so does my tortie just one leg on the inside looks like it belongs to an orange cat
Her official color/ pattern if you were showing her as a Household Pet in The International Cat Association (TICA), would be Brown Mackerel Torbie and White *
At least I THINK it's mackerel. Her lovely toy is lying right across her side, which is the best place to see which kind of pattern. Mackerel Tabby is narrow vertical stripes on the sides (vertical when the cat is standing up, anyway) You can see an example in the photo I am putting in this post of a cat named Awesome Amber who was TICA's top Household Pet Cat in the world for 2010-2011, and rather resembles Hauna.
If her tabby pattern is more wide swirls, circles , blotches, then substitute the word "classic" for "mackerel".
But she's definitely a torbie. You can tell because the tabby pattern shows in both the black-based pigment and the red-based pigment.. A Torbie is a "true tabby" and a Tortie is not. A true tabby has the Agouti gene that makes a tabby pattern show up distinctly in black-based pigment. Red -based pigment shows a tabby pattern whether or not a cat has Agouti. So if she were a tortie , the red patches would show the tabby pattern but the black-based patches would be solid.
Torbies have about the biggest variety of names in different cat associations. In CFA they are "Patched Tabbies". In GCCF (UK) and in Australian cat associations, "Tortie Tabbies" .
Re color. Torbies are both tabby and tortoiseshell . Tortie means they have both black based pigment and red based pigment. But in the naming , only the black-based is stated. and it's just understood that they have the corresponding red-based color ( either dense color which is Red or dilute which is Cream.
* OK, to be exactly complying with TICA practice , the way they would put it in writing is Brown (Black) Mackerel Torbie and White. In a tabby with black-based pigment , the darkest markings are black but the 'background' is often brownish. So they have been traditionally called Brown Tabbies. It is confusing because it''s genetic Black, and there IS a different base color that really IS Brown (also called Chocolate), an alternate allele of Black. . So TICA would prefer to just call it Black Tabby , using the real genetic base color. But some people don't want to give up that name "Brown Tabby" that they're used to. so TICA is trying to ease breeders into it by writing "Brown ( Black) " The same naming applies to the torbies with black as one of the base colors.
You can see on this link http://www.tica.org/members/awards/la.php to a list of Lifetime Achievement awards on the TICA site, that they do write it this way. The 2nd cat on that list, which is in alphabetical order by name, is the the cat in the photo at right ============>
At least I THINK it's mackerel. Her lovely toy is lying right across her side, which is the best place to see which kind of pattern. Mackerel Tabby is narrow vertical stripes on the sides (vertical when the cat is standing up, anyway) You can see an example in the photo I am putting in this post of a cat named Awesome Amber who was TICA's top Household Pet Cat in the world for 2010-2011, and rather resembles Hauna.
If her tabby pattern is more wide swirls, circles , blotches, then substitute the word "classic" for "mackerel".
But she's definitely a torbie. You can tell because the tabby pattern shows in both the black-based pigment and the red-based pigment.. A Torbie is a "true tabby" and a Tortie is not. A true tabby has the Agouti gene that makes a tabby pattern show up distinctly in black-based pigment. Red -based pigment shows a tabby pattern whether or not a cat has Agouti. So if she were a tortie , the red patches would show the tabby pattern but the black-based patches would be solid.
Torbies have about the biggest variety of names in different cat associations. In CFA they are "Patched Tabbies". In GCCF (UK) and in Australian cat associations, "Tortie Tabbies" .
Re color. Torbies are both tabby and tortoiseshell . Tortie means they have both black based pigment and red based pigment. But in the naming , only the black-based is stated. and it's just understood that they have the corresponding red-based color ( either dense color which is Red or dilute which is Cream.
* OK, to be exactly complying with TICA practice , the way they would put it in writing is Brown (Black) Mackerel Torbie and White. In a tabby with black-based pigment , the darkest markings are black but the 'background' is often brownish. So they have been traditionally called Brown Tabbies. It is confusing because it''s genetic Black, and there IS a different base color that really IS Brown (also called Chocolate), an alternate allele of Black. . So TICA would prefer to just call it Black Tabby , using the real genetic base color. But some people don't want to give up that name "Brown Tabby" that they're used to. so TICA is trying to ease breeders into it by writing "Brown ( Black) " The same naming applies to the torbies with black as one of the base colors.
You can see on this link http://www.tica.org/members/awards/la.php to a list of Lifetime Achievement awards on the TICA site, that they do write it this way. The 2nd cat on that list, which is in alphabetical order by name, is the the cat in the photo at right ============>
She'd be a mackerel then. Thanks for the reply! =)
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Wow, another gorgeous torbie & white cat! Sasha is a Brown Classic Torbie and White . She has such rich color!
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I am very confused by this little girl.The top pic is her as an adult the bottom she was just an itty bitty.A torti????Thanks!
My understanding is that if there are patches of white on the body it would be considered Calico; or Tortie and White in some parts of the world.
Adorable kitty! I'm not sure in that case if her tabby markings are considered into the mix to call her anything else. Someone else might be able to comment on that.
Adorable kitty! I'm not sure in that case if her tabby markings are considered into the mix to call her anything else. Someone else might be able to comment on that.
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She looks like a Calico.
vckitty. This coat IS a bit confusing! but since I see a mackerel tabby pattern in at least much of the dark areas on her, not just the red parts , that would make her Brown Mackerel Torbie and White. (that's what it's called in TICA). In CFA the same pattern would be called Brown Patched Mackerel Tabby and White.
Colloquially, some people would call her a Calico.
Both Torties ( Tortoiseshells) and Torbies ( Tortoiseshell Tabbies, also called Patched Tabbies) are cats who have both red-based pigment and black based pigment. The difference is that Torbies are also true tabbies, with a tabby pattern showing in BOTH kinds of color. ( A tabby pattern just about always shows in red-based color whether or not they have the "Agouti" gene that makes tabby markings show distinctly in the black-based color. So you look at that darker pigment to see if the cat is a "true tabby". which in this case makes the cat a Torbie.
The kitten photo definitely looks Torbie , since her side shows a tabby pattern in the dark color, it's not solid black.
But in the head shot, it is a bit confusing since at least this photo looks like she has a solid black patch on her head and on her chin. but the rest of the black-based color looks like there is a tabby pattern showing. But then farther down on the part of her shouder that shows, that looks tabby. So even from that photo, I would call her a Torbie and White.
If the black based color were NOT tabby but patches of solid color ( in this case would be black) , then the pattern is Tortie ( Tortoiseshell.)
Calico is an American term used for some Tortie & White cats. The term "Calico" is used in different ways by different people. In the more strict definition (such as in some breed standards in CFA) , it means a Tortie & White cat in which there is a lot of white ( usually at least half white ) and the red-based pigment and black-based pigment are arranged in fairly good sized distinct patches, rather than all mottled up together. And there is not a tabby pattern showing in the black-based color.
But many people just casually use the word "Calico" for any combination of red-based pigment, black-based pigment and white. So I'm sure a lot of people would call her a Calico.
Anyway , she is a pretty cat! very striking pattern.
Colloquially, some people would call her a Calico.
Both Torties ( Tortoiseshells) and Torbies ( Tortoiseshell Tabbies, also called Patched Tabbies) are cats who have both red-based pigment and black based pigment. The difference is that Torbies are also true tabbies, with a tabby pattern showing in BOTH kinds of color. ( A tabby pattern just about always shows in red-based color whether or not they have the "Agouti" gene that makes tabby markings show distinctly in the black-based color. So you look at that darker pigment to see if the cat is a "true tabby". which in this case makes the cat a Torbie.
The kitten photo definitely looks Torbie , since her side shows a tabby pattern in the dark color, it's not solid black.
But in the head shot, it is a bit confusing since at least this photo looks like she has a solid black patch on her head and on her chin. but the rest of the black-based color looks like there is a tabby pattern showing. But then farther down on the part of her shouder that shows, that looks tabby. So even from that photo, I would call her a Torbie and White.
If the black based color were NOT tabby but patches of solid color ( in this case would be black) , then the pattern is Tortie ( Tortoiseshell.)
Calico is an American term used for some Tortie & White cats. The term "Calico" is used in different ways by different people. In the more strict definition (such as in some breed standards in CFA) , it means a Tortie & White cat in which there is a lot of white ( usually at least half white ) and the red-based pigment and black-based pigment are arranged in fairly good sized distinct patches, rather than all mottled up together. And there is not a tabby pattern showing in the black-based color.
But many people just casually use the word "Calico" for any combination of red-based pigment, black-based pigment and white. So I'm sure a lot of people would call her a Calico.
Anyway , she is a pretty cat! very striking pattern.
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Thanks to all
We just adopted another kitty.
The shelter designation is calico.
Our 2 1/2 year old Lilly is a calico.
The black patches are solid, not tabbed:
Sofia on the other hand has tabbed black spots:
So she would be a Torbie and White, or Patched Tabby right?
Her head is actually more Torti:
Patched Tabby is a better description, but we think the Tabby Calico should be a Tabico or Caliby. It is interesting how the descriptions vary by location, etc. I think of Calico and Torti as 2 distinct patterns.
This is a great forum!
The shelter designation is calico.
Our 2 1/2 year old Lilly is a calico.
The black patches are solid, not tabbed:
Sofia on the other hand has tabbed black spots:
So she would be a Torbie and White, or Patched Tabby right?
Her head is actually more Torti:
Patched Tabby is a better description, but we think the Tabby Calico should be a Tabico or Caliby. It is interesting how the descriptions vary by location, etc. I think of Calico and Torti as 2 distinct patterns.
This is a great forum!
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[ATTACHMENT=522]sasha (1,563k. jpg file)[/ATTACHMENT]
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