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Tortie, torbie, calico?

post #1 of 44
Thread Starter 
Not sure what to call my cat lol.

Instead of explaining, I will post photos!

===============================================

Her as a kitten (you couldn't see much white)


She has a black heart shaped patch, rather her tummy is more patchy whereas her back is rather blended.


She also has a leg (with orange tabby stripes) on it.
(no photo)

And all four white paws (pink pads).


===============================================

Also, is there any way in deducing what her mom or dad may have looked like to end up with these genetics?
post #2 of 44
She's pretty! I love that heart-shaped patch.

A torbie is a cat with tabby markings (stripes, spots, or ticking) as well as patches, but to be a torbie they have to have the tabby markings in both their red and black patches. Since her black patches are solid she's not a torbie.

I was told that in the US tortoiseshells have more of a blended pattern and calicos have distinct patches, so I guess it depends on whether she has more blended/brindle markings or more patched. In other places I think tortoiseshells with white are called calicos?

Some interesting info here: http://www.messybeast.com/tricolours.htm
post #3 of 44
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that (in layman's terms) a calico is essentially a white cat with red and black patches, while a tortie is essentially a black cat with red blended in, and a torbie would need to have tabby markings in an otherwise tortie cat. If that understanding is correct, then what you have is a calico.

Whatever the "right" definition is, you have a lovely girl.
post #4 of 44
Calico... Beautiful girl!
post #5 of 44
Various associations would classify her a bit different. This is my opinion - she's a tortie & white (and LOVE the heart too - you should show her in HHP classes!)

Tortie - black and red coloring (red will always show a little tabby markings)

Calico - mainly a white cat with patches of black and red

Torbie (perfer to call it a Patched Tabby) - basically a brown, blue, or silver tabby that also has red tabby in the coat.

The biggest difference between a tortie and a patched tabby is whether the color is black or the brown/blue/silver color.


As far as genetics in order to get a tortie/calico one parent has to be carrying the black color gene and one has the red color gene - either or both could have white to produce a calico.
post #6 of 44
I agree she is pretty and you should show her in HHP.
post #7 of 44
That heart shaped patch is just about the most adorable thing I have ever seen. You have a beautiful baby.
post #8 of 44
OH and I agree fully that the heart shaped patch is just fabulous!! And she wears it in JUST THE RIGHT PLACE!!

I would be inclined to call her a calico!
post #9 of 44
your kitty's beautiful
post #10 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Torbie (perfer to call it a Patched Tabby) - basically a brown, blue, or silver tabby that also has red tabby in the coat.
I prefer to use torbie because it sounds weird to me when I combine patched tabby with my cat's color/pattern-- brown ticked patched tabby and white (or is that brown patched ticked tabby?) just sounds weird to me!
post #11 of 44
Oh my gosh, what gorgeous markings!! That heart!
post #12 of 44
I think we came up with the Brown Patched Ticked Tabby for your cat if I remember right - not a torbie.
post #13 of 44
Thread Starter 
What's HHP?

Brown Patched Ticked Torbie? Still not understanding, why is she brown patched? What does "ticked" mean?

She has orange stripes on her right hind leg (much like a red tabby). Apparently one of her parents were mainly white but had black and a patch of stripped cream. Any idea what the other parent would look like? He brother was completely black.
post #14 of 44
We don't use Calico or Torbie/patched tabby here.

She would be a tortie tabby & white (if she is indeed tabby, I'm seeing an M on the forehead), or just tortie & white.

The heart is just adorable.
post #15 of 44
Nolia - YOUR cat is not a patched tabby - its a tortie and white (or calico if you want to call her that). The patched ticked tabby was another member's cat - I was replying back to her.

HHP is household pet (mixed breed) for showing purposes - the class they would be in. Ticked tabby is like an Aby - where the hairs are ticked and banded. There are 4 types of tabby markings in cats.

1. Classic (bullseye pattern on the side, or circles)
2. Mackerel (fish stripes - vertical on the sides)
3. Spotted (like the Maus, Ocicats, Bengals)
4. Ticked (banded hairs like an Aby or rabbit)


Amanda - read what my first reply was - the red color will always show the tabby markings but that doesn't make the cat a tabby - its the brown, silver, blue that determines if its a tabby. If the cat has black and red (tabby) its a tortie or calico if its got white.
post #16 of 44
Wow, what a lovely cat! That heart is just fantastic!

I was just wondering the same thing about my cat Wendy. She has similar coloring: solid black patches blended with red tiger ones. But she has more white on her face, chest, belly, and legs than Nolia's cat. Her whole back and tail are colored, as are a couple of her legs and some little spots on her paws. Our vet calls her a calico, but might she be a tortie and white, instead? Is it the amount of white or is it the type of patches that makes the difference?



Any thoughts from the experts? Thank you!
post #17 of 44
Associations use calico and tortie & white interchangable. I think one said we really should be using tortie and white because you look at the color on the cat first - and the white really is not a "color".

Bicolors (two colors) would be (for show purposes) listed as Black Bicolor, Blue Bicolor, Red Tabby Bicolor, etc.

Personally if the cat is over 50% white I call it a calico; under that amount - tortie & white.

For your cat - she would be a tortie & white.
post #18 of 44
I always thought Dusty was a patched tabby. She doesn't really have any white, her chin is a light gray. Maybe she is a torbie? I love her little orange spot on her head.

post #19 of 44
Dusty is a fine example of a Brown Patched Tabby - NOT a torbie. She has brown tabby in the coat - not black like a tortie. Can you see the difference?

Patched tabbies don't have to have white - its not required. Its the same as having a normal all brown tabby or a normal brown tabby and white. If a patched tabby had white, then it would simply be a patched tabby and white.
post #20 of 44
What's the difference between torbie and patched tabby?
I entered my cat in a show as a patched tabby and one of the judges said I should have put torbie. So the next show we went to I entered her as a torbie and none of the judges corrected me, so I registered her with TICA as a torbie.
post #21 of 44
Torbie and Patched Tabby is the same thing - depends on what the association chooses to use. IMO Torbie is too close to Tortie and I prefer using Patched Tabby
post #22 of 44
To the OP Tortoiseshell & White.
post #23 of 44

 

This is our new kitten Jazzi. Is she a dilute tortie or a dilute torbie? She is white, silver and cinnamon, but has definite mackerel tabby markings through the silver grey on her sides and her darker tail.

post #24 of 44

 From what I can see, she is a torbie. The way you can tell a cat is a torbie instead of  a tortie is  that since a torbie is a " true tabby" ,  the tabby pattern  shows in the black-based color ,  not just in the red-based color.    A torbie is a tabby with tortoiseshell color.   

 

 In TICA she would be called  Blue  Mackerel Torbie and White .

(Note:  I just edited this when I saw you put a side view picture on another thread,  so i was able to see which type of tabby pattern.)   

 

Although " dilute torbie"  isn't an official color/ pattern name,   it is accurate to describe her that way because her colors are dilute versions.  Blue is the dilute of Black and Cream is the dilute of Red. 

 

So if you  care about the official color names,  hers are Blue and Cream.  

 Silver and cinnamon, though I can see why you would use those words to describe her,  actually have different meanings in the cat fancy.   Cinnamon is an alternate allele to black; it is quite unusual in non-pedigrees.  and it's a deeper red color but oddly enough it is actually a black-based pigment.  For multiple reasons  you could not have a cat that was both blue and cinnamon.  it would have to be one or the other not both   

Silver when used in a color/ pattern name,  is not exactly a color in the same way .  It's when a cat with a tabby pattern  also has the Inhibitor gene that inhibits the pigment from the part of the hairs closest to the skin ,  and it turns the agouti hairs ( that are usually yellowish or tan or tannish-grey) to white or nearly white. 

  For some dramatic examples of silver, look up  Black Silver Classic Tabby  American Shorthair,  or  look up   Chinchilla Persian . 


Edited by maewkaew - 7/27/13 at 9:52am
post #25 of 44

*

This is my 8 year-old girl, Hauna. Sorry for the toy in the way, but this was the best pic I could find that is fairly recent of her.

 

The majority of her patched markings on her sides are focused around her hind-end portion. And the majority of her markings from an aerial view are focused around her front end. She has one tabby ear and one patched ear. Both of her front paws are white, and her pads are a mixed pink and black.

 

 

I think she's a torbie? But what would be her official coloration? 


Edited by vukwanrik - 8/3/13 at 11:32pm
post #26 of 44
I couldn't see the pictures but from the descriptions I would say tortie.

She also has a leg (with orange tabby stripes) on it.
(no photo)

so does my tortie just one leg on the inside looks like it belongs to an orange cat smile.gif
post #27 of 44

Her official color/ pattern  if you were showing her as a Household Pet in The International Cat Association (TICA),  would be  Brown Mackerel Torbie and White  *

 

At least I THINK it's mackerel.   Her lovely toy is lying right  across her side, which is the best place to see which kind of pattern.    Mackerel Tabby  is narrow vertical stripes on the sides (vertical when the cat is standing up, anyway)   You can see an example in the photo I am putting in this post of a cat named Awesome Amber who was TICA's  top Household Pet Cat in the world for 2010-2011,  and rather resembles Hauna.

  If her tabby pattern is  more wide swirls, circles , blotches,  then substitute the word "classic" for "mackerel". 

 

But she's definitely a torbie.  You can tell  because the tabby pattern shows in both the black-based pigment and the red-based pigment..     A Torbie is a "true tabby" and a Tortie is not.   A true tabby has the Agouti gene that makes a tabby pattern show up distinctly in black-based pigment.   Red -based pigment shows a tabby pattern whether or not a cat has Agouti.    So if she were a tortie ,   the red patches would show the tabby pattern but the black-based patches would be solid.  

 

Torbies  have about the biggest variety of names in different cat associations.  In CFA they are "Patched Tabbies".   In GCCF  (UK) and in Australian cat associations,   "Tortie Tabbies" .  

 

Re color.  Torbies are  both tabby and tortoiseshell .  Tortie  means they have both black based pigment and red based pigment.   But in the naming ,  only the black-based is stated.  and it's just understood that they have the corresponding red-based color  ( either dense color which is Red or dilute which is Cream.  

 

*  OK,  to be  exactly  complying with TICA practice ,   the way they would put it in writing is Brown (Black) Mackerel Torbie and White.    In a tabby with black-based pigment ,   the darkest markings are black but the 'background' is often brownish.  So they have been traditionally called Brown Tabbies.  It is confusing because  it''s genetic Black,   and there IS a different base color that really IS Brown (also called Chocolate),  an alternate allele of Black. . So TICA would prefer to just call it Black Tabby , using the real genetic base color.    But some people don't want to give up that name "Brown Tabby"    that they're used to.   so TICA  is trying to ease breeders into it by writing "Brown ( Black) "  The same naming applies to the torbies with black as one of the base colors. 

 You can see on this link  http://www.tica.org/members/awards/la.php    to a list of Lifetime Achievement awards on the TICA site,  that they do write it this way.    The 2nd cat on that list,  which is in alphabetical order by name,  is the the cat in the photo  at right  ============>

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vukwanrik View Post

*

This is my 8 year-old girl, Hauna. Sorry for the toy in the way, but this was the best pic I could find that is fairly recent of her.

 

The majority of her patched markings on her sides are focused around her hind-end portion. And the majority of her markings from an aerial view are focused around her front end. She has one tabby ear and one patched ear. Both of her front paws are white, and her pads are a mixed pink and black.

 

 

I think she's a torbie? But what would be her official coloration? 

 

post #28 of 44

She'd be a mackerel then. Thanks for the reply! =)

post #29 of 44
sasha
post #30 of 44

Wow,   another gorgeous torbie & white cat!      Sasha is a Brown Classic Torbie and White .     She has such rich color!  

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