Global Warming Office - gee thanks Obama!

Maybe not what one would classify Global Warming, per se, but rather Climate Change does exist...reduced wetlands, melting polar ice caps, shifting and increasing droughts; rising tides, increased salty marshes worldwide. These do exist and do require attention.
Anyone who has a vested interest in the increasing costs of producing meat and milk should care, because the costs of farmers purchasing hay when their fields traditionally are full of forage (when it don't rain, the grass don't grow) are passed on to those families struggling to feed their children.

Please note that the above message has been brought to you by the Family Research Council - the same kind folks who would like you to oppose the repeal of DADT, because doing so would "advance a sexual agenda." Oh noes! The homosexuals don't want to hide anymore!

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=WU10B07&f=PG07J01

Um, yeah, I think I'll go elsewhere for an intelligent discussion of climate change.

I agree

I meant that I would not start a serious discussion about climate change with a quotation from the Family Research Council. These people advocate the teaching of intelligent design, so no, I don't respect their opinions on matters of science.

Would you start an intelligent conversation if I posted link after link after link after link of the dishonest scientists that fudge data, omit pertinent data, expel any dissent, refuse any debate and lie through their teeth?

The entire CO2, Global Warming, Climate Change, whatever buzz word you want to call it this week is a total scam.

All it is, and I believe this with all my heart, is income redistribution on a global scale.

Oh yeah, all us energy hogs are going to give billions to third world dictators of third world countries. OH JOY!

And what will be the result of lining the pockets of these dictators?

If the Senate and Barack REALLY want to see the anger of the American people, let them pass Cap and Trade like Pelosi's Congress did. I cannot even imagine. But I can tell you one thing, there would be a new party in the majority of Congress and Barack could kiss his butt good-bye in 2012.

The day this country has to start paying billions to the likes of Hugo Chavez and the Castro brothers and others of their ilk, is the day Barack better declare martial law because it wouldn't be pretty.

That's quite a conspiracy theory - I think I'm out of my element here.

I watched an interesting National Geographic Channel show tonight that was about diving in underground caves (in the Bahamas) for the purpose of doing archeological research. One of the things that the divers did was to cut off a stalagmite from the bottom of the cave to study the climate changes over the last 100,000 or so years. It did show bands of when the earth warmed and cooled during that time and it did occur naturally about 4 times in that period.

Climatologists have studied bands in ice cores for some time but the one thing that the stalagmite had that wasn't found in the ice cores was a layer of iron, which occurred roughly 50 years before the warming periods. They traced the source of that iron to the Sahara Dessert. During severe drought, the Sahara kicks enough dust in the atmosphere to put a deep layer of dust in other parts of the world. And guess what is happening in the Sahara these days? Yup - severe drought. The scary thing is this: it only took 50 years from the time that the Sahara kicked up a lot of dust before the world climate changed. One doesn't cause the other - it's a domino effect that seems to start as severe drought in Africa. If you are young enough, you might live to see it. If you aren't young enough, then pray for your children.

But what I want to understand is this: Why would bad weather in Washington preclude us from keeping a close eye on our planet's climate? Weather and climate are not the same thing last time I checked.

I remember another poster on the board commenting that Ann Arbor hasn't had major snowfall this year. I've visited that area during the winter many times, and that strikes me as highly unusual, but do I think it's proof of global warming? No, of course not. In the same way, saying that a bad snowstorm (or three) in DC disproves global warming strikes me as pretty ridiculous.

Let me get this straight, if a person believes that this universe was not some, huge, cosmic accident then the person is not worthy of respect? Am I understanding you correctly?



Are you denying any of what I said regarding any of the countries I mentioned? Because, if you are, I can hunt down the links to all the articles pertaining to the dishonest global warming scientists and post them here for your perusal.



The fact that a particular place does or does not receive snow on a given year, is colder or hotter than it was a year or so ago has nothing to do with the reasons behind why I don't believe in this global, scientific scam.

One thing I have noticed about scientists, they surely do have over inflated ego's. They believe humans can control the climate of this planet. I'm shocked that this old planet has made it, intact, for 4.6 billion years without the brilliant assistance of these genius'.

We have gone into warming periods many times, how will lowering the C02 levels prevent the above from happening?

IMO, it won't, this stuff happened before man walked this Earth and it will be happening long after we are gone. We just aren't as important to the workings of this planet as scientists would like to believe we are.

And NO ONE, not one single person (except Canada) sees fit to mention lowering the population levels on Earth. If man is so darn bad for the planet, global birth control should be #1.

That said, I am all for lowering our pollutant levels, I'm sick of smog and dirty air. I think more needs to be done to save the rain forests and coral reefs but I don't think my taxpayer money should be donated to the likes of Hugo Chavez.

[quote=ckblv;2819886]Let me get this straight, if a person believes that this universe was not some, huge, cosmic accident then the person is not worthy of respect? Am I understanding you correctly?

That's not what I'm saying at all. (There are plenty of people in the world, by the way, who don't view science and religion as incompatible.) What I'm saying is that an organization sympathetic to those who reject the theory of evolution has already lost credibility with me in matters of science.

You are of course free to post whatever links you like. I just hope they're better than the Daily Mail article you posted the other day. At least one of the scientists quoted in that article was very quick to distance himself from the story, saying that the newspaper had deliberately distorted his findings. I should also point out, in case it saves you some time, that I've already heard about University of East Anglia email controversy.

I don't think skepticism is a bad thing at all - indeed, science encourages skepticism. I would just like to see a debate that isn't filled with wild allegations and divisive political rhetoric.

[quote=motoko9;2819940] I beg to differ. These dishonest global warming scientists brook no dissent and suffer no skepticism.

Debate? Forget about debate, none of them including Al Gore, inventor of the internet, will lower themselves to debate the issue. Their elitism and arrogance is pathetic, IMO.

The fact is, there IS a political element to Global Warming. I saw the signs by the protesters during the big shindig in Copenhagen, "Rich Countries, PAY YOUR CLIMATE TAX". There is no denying that is what the United Nations wants, the biggest energy using countries to pay billions to third world countries. And third world countries have dictators for leaders, that fact cannot be denied. So, in fact, the American taxpayers will be required to line the pockets of third world dictators. Can anyone dispute that?
(And that does not even address the "skyrocketing" electricity rates we will be paying)


If there is a way to reconcile the Theory of Evolution with the creation of Man and the Universe by God I would certainly listen to that theory.

Oh, there are plenty of links from other sources but I have noticed that much of the lamestream, mainstream media tends to ignore the debunking of man caused global warming, that ,in no way, means it isn't being debunked on a weekly basis.

Other than not understanding your reference to Hugo Chavez, I agree with you. The controversy over "climate change" is not so much that it is happening, but rather than the cause of it. I'm personally disappointed that people deny that the climate is changing because it has been tied up with the controversy that humans may or may not be contributing to it.

But regardless of why it's happening, we are polluting the planet and something should be done for it. And if by chance that helps with the climate change that is already in progress, good!

My personal belief is that climate is far more complicated than what anyone alive understands and if anyone thinks there is a single contribution to climate change, they are kidding themselves. I do think that humans are contributing to it (to the degree I have no idea), but I also believe that regardless what we as a species might do to it, the earth will heal itself. As it has over and over again over the ages.

Really? There have been plenty of prominent climatologists - climatologists who believe in anthropogenic global warming - in the news for criticizing the IPCC recently. I haven't heard that they've been fired or otherwise banished from the guild. They don't all take an oath to believe the exact same thing, you know.

That is what that huge Climate Conference in Copenhagen was all about. The United Nations is determined (and many countries are going along with it) that the nations that use the most energy, U.S. India, China, Russia, etc. etc.
PAY billions of dollars a year into this fund that will be set up by the United Nations. (oh joy) The United Nations, in turn will take that money and disburse it to third world countries to, supposedly help them with their energy needs.

Is that not the biggest crock?

1. Last I knew, the Government gets its' $$$ from the taxpayer, so that money is coming out of you and I's pocket.

2. Does anyone in their right mind trust the United Nations to do anything on the up and up? Prime example = Oil For Food

3. Give billions to third world countries to help them with their energy needs?
There is not enough rolling eye smilies to convey my contempt on that one.
That money will slip right into the pockets of the corrupt leaders
of those third world countries. Prime example = Haiti, Cuba, Venezuela

And we the public, the stooges, that are to pay for all this global income redistribution, are looked on as total idiots, only good enough to pay the money but we better keep our mouths shut and not complain about it or we get accused of being cold hearted, uncompassionate cretins.

I'm not going to quote theories or post links, but anyone who believes that God created the universe could certainly entertain the possibility that evolution could have been part of His Plan?

[quote=Misty8723;2820576]
I don't understand what you are asking here.

While I don't trust the government to do anything for me, you've got to realize that we (the U.S.) consume 5x as much energy as the global average and many of our needs are met by utilizing resources from 3rd world countries. In many of those countries, already, the people do not see any benefit from selling us their resources- it's already being pocketed by politicians. It's political because we (the general we) want to maintain the standard of living we already have. Other countries would like to live the way we do, and there just aren't enough resources for everyone to do that.

We already pay money to the Venezuelan government. We use plenty of Venezuelan (government owned) oil in American gas stations. Do a quick Google search to see which ones.

If only science were so simple. No offense, but I don't see how one can debate with you the human effects on global climate change unless you offer some factual evidence in favor of or contrary to your statement. You can believe it is hocus pocus all you want, but it isn't a matter of opinion. The only way to determine whether humans are affecting climate cycles is to test hypotheses. Simply saying it's one way or the other doesn't make it so.

[quote=ckblv;2820653] Okay, I'll try to be a little clearer. I'm asking why couldn't it be possible that God created everything and built a system of evolution into what He created. Why couldn't both theories be a little bit right? Or a little bit wrong? I'm not saying that's MY belief, because I don't think we'll ever know the truth until we get to the other side of the curtain.

I agree with you, Misty, anything IS is possible.

It's ironic that by the time we reach the time and place where all our questions will be answered, we, probably, won't even care.

Yes, I know that, I don't purchase Venezuelan gas.

Pertaining to your other post, all money given to third world countries goes into the pockets of the corrupt leaders who care nothing for their people and that is the way it will be with this ridiculous C02, United Nations climate tax hoax.

What kinds of resources do we "utilize" from third world countries? You mean like oil?

I agree with you that it's very unlikely that these tax moneys would do much (if anything) to benefit the people who really need it. I did mean oil, but I also meant land (like for farming), and forests (wood, and whatever else comes out of the forest), minerals, and ores.

In regard to the OP's gripe about tax payer moneys being used to study climate, perhaps it is a superfluous use of funds- not because I believe our impact is trivial, but because I believe we should be kinder to the environment regardless of the extent to which we affect the climate. I can't imagine that anyone would say, "Hey the CO2 isn't really changing the weather, let's pollute all we want!"

I hope that I care. I've spent a good part of my life so far in search of answers

I think I used the wrong words when I said "we won't even care". What I should have said is, it won't be important to us anymore. It really won't matter much in the grand scheme of things.

Yes, I know what you meant, I wasn't trying to be contrary.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61C1V420100213

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60M15320100123

http://toryardvaark.wordpress.com/20...e-change-data/

http://www.leaderpost.com/technology...820/story.html

http://papundits.wordpress.com/2010/...lobal-warming/

http://www.heartland.org/ Heartland.org is a great website.

http://www.globalwarmingheartland.org/

Global Warming Facts

http://live.psu.edu/story/44327

Fantastic link below to the new Carbon Trading Scam. I am SO glad President Bush did not fall for that bull and blew off signing The Kyoto Protocol, he had more sense than the European Union, who are fools, IMO.

http://discovermagazine.com/2008/dec...carbon-trading

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7017907.ece

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...#ixzz0erA6sPl7

It just BEGAN with the hacked emails that showed all the duplicity. Now the house of cards is falling down faster than a down pour.
I'm tired of posting links. Anyone that still believes in this scam has no one but themselves to blame.