Shelters and neglect (long)?

mommysugar

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I rescued a cat from a feral rescue home of which I found through petfinder.com I noticed a bald patch on his neck when I came to get my cat from his foster mom who hadn't even noticed and said that the other cat must have bit him. ( this spot has now spread and caused more hair loss) My cat was kept in a small room with the door closed with 10 other cats in a house that had a total of 40 cats. At one point, I called the lady after I had the cat for a week because he seemed really sick and she said that the hair loss might be ringworm or a yeast infection and to just put miconazole on it. Why on earth would you give someone a cat that you suspected to have ringworm?! This seems neglectful to me and I am contemplating calling the state on her. My cat also has had diarrhea for a month straight now and has also had bad breath and reddish gums in some spots.(he has been to the vet since I got him)..I have never had a cat before so I just assumed you only give away ones in good health. What are your thoughts on this issue? Should I turn her in? I understand that she is trying to help rescue cats and all, but if you don't notice that a cat is missing hair and has bad breath and diarrhea isn't that neglectful and abusive? At what point is it hoarding when you have 40 cats in your home and should you be caring for cats if you don't even notice that they are sick? It seems super irresponsible to me. Aren't cats suppose to have a certain amount of square footage for sanity and health purposes? He had all the shots he should have had from her, but the fact remains that he is sick and was sick when I got him because according to her she didn't notice any of his health issues! It makes me angry to think that this woman locked him up in this small room with other sick cats she rescued for 8 months of his life which now could compromise his health in the future not to mention his behaviour.

I feel like she misrepresented the health of the cat through her carelessness. If you foster cats don't you notice when they are sick and then if they are sick do you give them away anyways? How do you feel about this situation and do you think she may be a hoarder? I am besides myself
 

bookworm

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I have several feral and stray rescues in my home, and am very aware of their health. No way I would attempt to keep 40. I think the line between rescuer and hoarder is fine, and I'm perhaps over cautious not to cross it. If she doesn't know their health situation, let alone provide the necessary treatment then she may well be in over her head.

I don't know if I would report her to the state just yet, that would like as not be a death sentence for the cats, maybe see if she is affiliated with some larger rescue group and go to them?
 

alicatjoy

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I think, in my opinion, that this is a very sensitive subject on many levels. For one, you're posting this on a forum which is filled to the brim with members who are cat owners and who are invested in their care and the care of cats around the country and the world. Many of us, if not all, will have strong feelings when someone discusses the possibility of cats (or any animals, for that matter) being in a situation which may be unhealthy or unsafe. We are all advocates for cats and animals since they are innocents -- they cannot protect themselves. But, that being said, while it would be easy to say that yes, the cat you adopted does seem to have come from a negative situation, it's important to not lose sight of the fact that we don't know the entire story and, at first glance, it doesn't appear that you do as well. This is not to knock you and is, in fact, quite the opposite -- I commend you for caring enough about your cat and cats in general to ask questions, do research, and ultimately want to ensure the safety of the cats in this individual's care. It just strikes me that it would be best to have more information before taking drastic action.

You've shared that the individual you adopted your cat from had 40 or more cats in their care. You've also stated that they are a part of a feral cat rescue organization. If that is true, is the organization a recognized rescue group? Is it comprised of individuals who are doing foster for a larger scale operation or is it one person calling themselves a rescue? And, even if it is just one individual, that does not necessarily mean that they are not legit. Are they a not-for-profit organization (501c3)? Do they have records that can prove this? Also, if they are a legitimate, do they have other paperwork available to be seen and discussed should an issue present itself? And, if they are part of a larger organization, I would be asking the same questions. Can you ask for a contact person to discuss the issues at hand with? Is their a chain of command, so to speak? I'd definitely suggest doing some research on the organization as a whole before calling the authorities on them. However, the situation changes completely if there are cats or other animals at risk currently. But, that, too, would take some time to determine.

When you adopted your cat, did you have to fill out an application and/or a contract? If so, you should have that contract in your possession. What does it state about the care the animals should have received while in foster care? What does it say about assuming risk and any liability should the animal become sick or injured? I've worked with rescues before as well as shelters and can say that cats can become ill after being adopted. Sometimes the issues could have been avoided or treated beforehand, but things like upper respiratory infections and other illnesses are sometimes brought about by stress and therefore are not things that could have been prevented. Just because your cat has some health issues now does not mean that he or she had them while in foster care. But, on the same token, things did seem awry when you first went to adopt the cat and those issues should have been brought up at that time -- both on the fosterer's part and your own.

Not every person has positive intentions. Many will try to dupe others in order to get what they want -- be it on the current owner's part or that of the prospective buyer. That's why, first and foremost, it is important to trust your own instincts. If something didn't appear right when you first went to visit with the cat, why didn't you say something then? I'm not blaming you -- I'm just trying to see where your frame of mind was then as well as now. How did the cats in her care appear at the time when you first met them? Were they underweight? Overweight? Did they have adequate food, water, and shelter? Were there toys available? Cat trees? Scratchers? Were they all receiving vet care? Did the house smell badly? Did the individual know which cat was which? Did he or she seem to have a bond with any of the cats? Was their paperwork available on the vet care the cats were being given? Was their deceit going on? Or, rather, was there transparency? All of these are things that you should have been able to notice at first glance or with the aid of simple exploratory questions. Unfortunately, the fact remains that for most anything, and pets and animals are included here, that "let the buyer beware." As I said, there are people who are dishonest in the world and not everything is what it should be expected to be. It sounds as though there was some naivety on your part and that's okay, but it also means that you need to think hard about what you did witness. Your anger and frustration is warranted because that is how you feel. But, is it because you feel duped or because the cats in this individual's care really are in harms way?

I have a cat that I got from the shelter who has gingivitis -- bad breath and red gums. I found this out after taking her to the vet. In most cases, shelters and rescues provide the basic, minimum care for their charges. The paperwork I signed when adopting Cassidy stated that I would be held responsible for any health concerns that became apparent after her adoption. The gingivitis should have been caught by the shelter's vet, but it wasn't and I am now dealing with that. However, just because they didn't catch it does not mean that she was neglected or abused. Another example is my other cat, Delaney. I adopted her from another shelter and she had giardia which resulted in smelly, frequent diarrhea. This, too, should have been caught, but when I discussed her with the shelter after the adoption, it was decided that her symptoms were not severe enough or apparent enough at the time for them to have treated her. I do feel she got the short end of the stick there as she did wind up suffering with something for longer than necessary, but I don't hold them responsible. URI's are much of the same. Many cats become ill when in foster care. But, others don't begin showing symptoms until they are adopted. That is why quarantining is so important -- as is getting your new cat or kitten checked out immediately. Things can and will crop up. Sometimes it is a little negligence on a shelter or fosterer's part, but it's usually just bad timing.

From an objective standpoint, it does seem like I'd have questions for this organization or individual. But, I wouldn't necessarily blame them for what has transpired. If you feel strongly that the cats under their care are in danger, then, by all means, discuss your concerns with them. If they're not willing to listen and/or provide basic information to you, then I may discuss other possibilities (such as reporting them). I'd certainly expect them to be defensive and I don't think that automatically makes them guilty. I do think some of this is your responsibility as well. We all make decisions and you took the cat despite your concerns. Now that cat is your responsibility and you need to be willing to do everything possible for him or her (which I understand you are doing). But don't let your frustration with yourself feed your anger with the organization. That's where it becomes very tricky, in my opinion...

Good luck with your kitty and try to focus on what you can do now to ensure his or her health and happiness. If you feel your other concerns are serious enough, by all means, begin a dialogue. But, remember, it's not always as cut and dry as it appears. And, I'd use that as a bit of caution regardless of what you do -- both in your dealings now and in the future.
 

carolina

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Originally Posted by Alison Joy

I think, in my opinion, that this is a very sensitive subject on many levels. For one, you're posting this on a forum which is filled to the brim with members who are cat owners and who are invested in their care and the care of cats around the country and the world. Many of us, if not all, will have strong feelings when someone discusses the possibility of cats (or any animals, for that matter) being in a situation which may be unhealthy or unsafe. We are all advocates for cats and animals since they are innocents -- they cannot protect themselves. But, that being said, while it would be easy to say that yes, the cat you adopted does seem to have come from a negative situation, it's important to not lose sight of the fact that we don't know the entire story and, at first glance, it doesn't appear that you do as well. This is not to knock you and is, in fact, quite the opposite -- I commend you for caring enough about your cat and cats in general to ask questions, do research, and ultimately want to ensure the safety of the cats in this individual's care. It just strikes me that it would be best to have more information before taking drastic action.

You've shared that the individual you adopted your cat from had 40 or more cats in their care. You've also stated that they are a part of a feral cat rescue organization. If that is true, is the organization a recognized rescue group? Is it comprised of individuals who are doing foster for a larger scale operation or is it one person calling themselves a rescue? And, even if it is just one individual, that does not necessarily mean that they are not legit. Are they a not-for-profit organization (501c3)? Do they have records that can prove this? Also, if they are a legitimate, do they have other paperwork available to be seen and discussed should an issue present itself? And, if they are part of a larger organization, I would be asking the same questions. Can you ask for a contact person to discuss the issues at hand with? Is their a chain of command, so to speak? I'd definitely suggest doing some research on the organization as a whole before calling the authorities on them. However, the situation changes completely if there are cats or other animals at risk currently. But, that, too, would take some time to determine.

When you adopted your cat, did you have to fill out an application and/or a contract? If so, you should have that contract in your possession. What does it state about the care the animals should have received while in foster care? What does it say about assuming risk and any liability should the animal become sick or injured? I've worked with rescues before as well as shelters and can say that cats can become ill after being adopted. Sometimes the issues could have been avoided or treated beforehand, but things like upper respiratory infections and other illnesses are sometimes brought about by stress and therefore are not things that could have been prevented. Just because your cat has some health issues now does not mean that he or she had them while in foster care. But, on the same token, things did seem awry when you first went to adopt the cat and those issues should have been brought up at that time -- both on the fosterer's part and your own.

Not every person has positive intentions. Many will try to dupe others in order to get what they want -- be it on the current owner's part or that of the prospective buyer. That's why, first and foremost, it is important to trust your own instincts. If something didn't appear right when you first went to visit with the cat, why didn't you say something then? I'm not blaming you -- I'm just trying to see where your frame of mind was then as well as now. How did the cats in her care appear at the time when you first met them? Were they underweight? Overweight? Did they have adequate food, water, and shelter? Were there toys available? Cat trees? Scratchers? Were they all receiving vet care? Did the house smell badly? Did the individual know which cat was which? Did he or she seem to have a bond with any of the cats? Was their paperwork available on the vet care the cats were being given? Was their deceit going on? Or, rather, was there transparency? All of these are things that you should have been able to notice at first glance or with the aid of simple exploratory questions. Unfortunately, the fact remains that for most anything, and pets and animals are included here, that "let the buyer beware." As I said, there are people who are dishonest in the world and not everything is what it should be expected to be. It sounds as though there was some naivety on your part and that's okay, but it also means that you need to think hard about what you did witness. Your anger and frustration is warranted because that is how you feel. But, is it because you feel duped or because the cats in this individual's care really are in harms way?

I have a cat that I got from the shelter who has gingivitis -- bad breath and red gums. I found this out after taking her to the vet. In most cases, shelters and rescues provide the basic, minimum care for their charges. The paperwork I signed when adopting Cassidy stated that I would be held responsible for any health concerns that became apparent after her adoption. The gingivitis should have been caught by the shelter's vet, but it wasn't and I am now dealing with that. However, just because they didn't catch it does not mean that she was neglected or abused. Another example is my other cat, Delaney. I adopted her from another shelter and she had giardia which resulted in smelly, frequent diarrhea. This, too, should have been caught, but when I discussed her with the shelter after the adoption, it was decided that her symptoms were not severe enough or apparent enough at the time for them to have treated her. I do feel she got the short end of the stick there as she did wind up suffering with something for longer than necessary, but I don't hold them responsible. URI's are much of the same. Many cats become ill when in foster care. But, others don't begin showing symptoms until they are adopted. That is why quarantining is so important -- as is getting your new cat or kitten checked out immediately. Things can and will crop up. Sometimes it is a little negligence on a shelter or fosterer's part, but it's usually just bad timing.

From an objective standpoint, it does seem like I'd have questions for this organization or individual. But, I wouldn't necessarily blame them for what has transpired. If you feel strongly that the cats under their care are in danger, then, by all means, discuss your concerns with them. If they're not willing to listen and/or provide basic information to you, then I may discuss other possibilities (such as reporting them). I'd certainly expect them to be defensive and I don't think that automatically makes them guilty. I do think some of this is your responsibility as well. We all make decisions and you took the cat despite your concerns. Now that cat is your responsibility and you need to be willing to do everything possible for him or her (which I understand you are doing). But don't let your frustration with yourself feed your anger with the organization. That's where it becomes very tricky, in my opinion...

Good luck with your kitty and try to focus on what you can do now to ensure his or her health and happiness. If you feel your other concerns are serious enough, by all means, begin a dialogue. But, remember, it's not always as cut and dry as it appears. And, I'd use that as a bit of caution regardless of what you do -- both in your dealings now and in the future.
Excellent post!
I have had a similar experience with Bugsy... I adopted all my cats, Lucky, Bugsy and Hope from a Purebred Rescue Organization here in Dallas.
Lucky came first, and she had ringworm - it sucked, but no biggie, it went away on its own after a while... I treated it for some time with colloidal Silver, and left it alone. Ringworm, URI, that kind of stuff is IMO something that you might need to gamble with when adopting from a shelter or a rescue.
Then I got Bugsy - that is problem boy. Bugsy is a purebred rare white ragdoll, and that is where I think the problems come from. His breeder trying to create the new "it" color of ragdoll, White, put him in a very small gene pool... Bugsy has IBD, Stomatitis, and a weak immune system, along with herpes, which gives him URIs from time to time. Did I know this when he came? Nope! The rescuer also claims she didn't know.
When I started finding out these problems with Bugsy, I contacted her, and she was super nice, contacted the breeder, who denied knowing anything about it... She then offered to take Bugsy back, and replace him with another purebred Ragdoll. Well... of course that was a no go for me - I had made a commitment to Bugsy, for life... not with words, but with my heart. I couldn't simply send him back! And what if I did, what would happen to him? Who would adopt him? I am his best chance for a good life, and he is with me for a reason, I can't fail my boy...
Luckily he does have health insurance, I signed him the first day I got him, which has saved me a lot of $$$, and I got the $$$ for his dental treatment.
Do I blame the rescue place? No, absolutely not! In fact, I went back there and got Little Hope to foster, and later adopted her.

This rescue does a wonderful job saving so many cats that if it was not for them would be dead... They just took in 30 cats from a back yard breeder who were in a horrible abusive situation...

They feed them well, all the cats have vet care, plenty of cat trees, sunny spots, and love - she loves every one of them.

Sure, when you take care of 40, 60 cats, you don't always know who pooped diarrhea in the litterbox... Sometimes in our own homes we don't know!

So yes, when you adopt a cat from a shelter or a rescue, it might not be spanking clean and healthy as a pet that you buy from a good breeder... The conditions they live in are completely different, and the budget the people who are taking care of them are under is also completely different, which means their level of care is completely different.
But that doesn't make them any less special... and you are saving a life...
Please be patient, both with you kitty and with rescue...

Please also think twice about these people and what they might be going through right now in this financial crisis - adoptions and donations are low, pet surrenders are higher then ever - rescues are PACKED! These people are probably spending their own dimes trying to save every cat they can...
Think about that before you do anything.
 

icklemiss21

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Five cats is enough for me to be watching for health issues, and they are not feral and easily handled to check their health.

However, those 40 cats she has, she is obviously socialising to some extent to make them adoptable. Even with feral kittens you can't just scoop them up and play with them - a feral cat is very different from a stray and even with one it can be hard to see signs of illness.

As far as diarrhea, we have many cats in the shelter who do not have it in the shelter but we get a call from the new owners a few days later saying they have it - stress, a new food, all the change can certainly bring that on or there can be parasites that lay dormant for some time that mature to a certain extent that cause the diarrhea.

Ringworm is a pain, but treatable and not a huge deal when you only have one cat in the house. Should she have noticed it, yes but as I mentioned above, when dealing with ferals you can't always check them over fully, they just are not used to being handled like that. But it also could be a flea allergy or a number of other things including fur mowing due to the stress of change.

What did the vet say is the cause of the red gums, diarrhea etc - he could give you a better idea of whether it was a long term thing or illness that should have been spotted
 
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