A question about vaccinating?

nekkiddoglady

TCS Member
Thread starter
Alpha Cat
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
400
Purraise
1
Location
Ohio
I took Fred and Tabbi to the vet for their check up and shots.

Fred was just due for a Parvo/Distemper.. I feel the dog does need vaccinated since he does go outside often, and also travels often.

The cats are all indoors. I had asked about forgoing the leukemia and other vaccines.. his theory was that these diseases can all be tracked indoors on our shoes. He said if it was a cat that had been vaccined for 5-6 years and live like a 3 story apartment building, maybe.. but if I have many stray cats that come thru my yard, he thinks there is still some chance of exposure (In the 3 years that I have lived here, Ive only seen ONE stray cat- surprisingly enough!)

However, oddly enough he did not seem concerned about vaccinating for rabies. His point was that it could only be spread thru a bite anyways, and since the cats are indoors, they are not likely going to get bit by anything.

I asked about the legalities of the rabies shots. I was under the impression that they were required by law. He said you need to tell them your dog has the rabies vaccine to get a dog licence, but he wasnt aware that it was law. I pointed out that animals are subject to quarantine if they bite, and also NO vet will even do a spay/neuter without rabies vaccines. Even spay/neuter clinics do rabies vaccines to assure they are vaccinated.

He said he was going to have to check on the law with rabies, because he wasnt sure.

I do like this vet for Fred, he seems more knowledgeable about the Cresteds than other vets in the area do, and he also has a simple vaccine that Fred doesnt have reactions to. For the cats? Eh, Im not so thrilled.. there's another vet in town that I use that seems more familiar with cats.

Any thoughts on what the vet told me today regarding vaccines/exposures? He even suggested that some of the upper respitory diseases can be tracked in on my shoes.
 

mews2much

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
13,424
Purraise
27
Location
Central Valley,California
My cats will never get the leukemia shot again it killed my lucy in 2001.
In fact the breeders have it in the contract never to give that shot.
Same with the fip shot.
I just do the Distmper 3 in 1 and only Cleo gets the Rabies shot because she has smack judges before.
I would check the rabies law in your state.
Here there is no law for cats.
I never had a problem and we have had cats since 1977.
 

otto

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
9,837
Purraise
197
I think that vet is a bit misinformed on the subject of feline vaccinations and certain diseases. Yes you could conceivably bring a distemper infection into your home, but not Feline Leukemia. FeLV lives only a very short time off the body of the infected or carrier cat. Minutes. Direct contact is how FeLV is spread.

Much of vaccine protocol varies in opinion, and local preference, rather than fact, but it is fact that FeLV virus is not spread from shoes.

A distemper vaccine should protect an indoor cat for a minimum of three years, probably longer, in my and my vet's opinions.

Rabies is a much more serious thing, in the big picture, being able to be transmitted to many species, and always fatal, and not pleasantly, and it is vaccine that keeps it controlled.

Rabies vaccines are law in many places, and as stated in another thread, I for one would keep my cats protected even if it wasn't law. All it takes is once.

Your instincts are correct, in my opinion!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4

nekkiddoglady

TCS Member
Thread starter
Alpha Cat
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
400
Purraise
1
Location
Ohio
even if there wasnt a law requiring rabies.. IMO, its just a disease I wouldnt want to play around with. We dont have many stray cats, but we do have some wildlife..

Something did make an attempt to break into our house a few years ago.. (I will assume a raccoon, clever little critters) whatever it was clawed up a screen trying to get in-- we heard one of the cats screaming late at nite, at first we thought a few of the cats were getting in a fight over something.. but we found the clawed up screen the next morning.. our assumption was that the animal clawed up the screen to get to the cat food.. we have a cat condo right next to the window and keep the cat food up there out of Fred's reach. One of the cats must have seen the animal trying to get in and scared it off by screaming at it.

We live out in the country, its really not uncommon for wildlife to find their way into housing! Many species here, such as raccoons, can carry rabies.


I just thought that the vets comment about carrying in leukemia on my shoes was odd. I know parvo can live in the soil for a long time and can be carried in.. but Im afraid Im not as familiar with cat diseases.
 

taryn

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
930
Purraise
2
Location
O'Fallon, IL
There have been indoor only cats who have ended up with leukemia, the assumption on it being carried in on a person is a a well held thought amongst vets because they don't know how indoor only negative cats will suddenly show up positive. Maude had the FeLV vaccine before being boarded and this year as Attitude and Nuts are both positive plus all 6 outside are. That is the only vaccine other than rabies she receives.

All 3 have their rabies as it is required here, even cats have to have licenses. Attitude and Nuts are fully vaccinated, except for the obviously useless to them FeLV vaccine.

I will decide what to do at their 1 year visit if I should get their full shots again, I most likely won't, they are inside only.

Taryn
 

otto

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
9,837
Purraise
197
Originally Posted by Taryn

There have been indoor only cats who have ended up with leukemia, the assumption on it being carried in on a person is a a well held thought amongst vets because they don't know how indoor only negative cats will suddenly show up positive. Maude had the FeLV vaccine before being boarded and this year as Attitude and Nuts are both positive plus all 6 outside are. That is the only vaccine other than rabies she receives.

All 3 have their rabies as it is required here, even cats have to have licenses. Attitude and Nuts are fully vaccinated, except for the obviously useless to them FeLV vaccine.

I will decide what to do at their 1 year visit if I should get their full shots again, I most likely won't, they are inside only.

Taryn
I really doubt this. FeLV is spread through direct contact. Mutual grooming and biting/fighting are the main ways it is spread, although casual contact such as sneezing, hissing, sharing food/water bowls and sharing litter boxes are also possible means of transmission.

It usually takes rather constant casual contact in healthy cats.

Unless someone touched an uninfected cat with a hand containing something like actual wet saliva or undried blood of an infected cat, the disease is not indirectly transmissible.

An indoor cat could conceivably catch the virus through a window screen however, if an infected cat came up to the screen and hissed or sneezed on the indoor cat through the screen. Again though, one instance of that is not likely to infect a healthy cat. Possible, yes, but probable, no.


FeLV Vaccines are, in general 70-85% effective. Various manufacturers differ, so I've read, it is not really possible to determine how effective they are, except to know that much.
 

ut0pia

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
5,120
Purraise
34
How old is Tabbi, has she been vaccinated with the distemper combo after she was 6 months old?? If she has and she is indoor, some will agree that you can forgo the distemper combo shot, or others say to do it every 3 years instead of yearly..I've read that one shot after the kitty is 6 months old will provide immunity for life. But these diseases are all air borne so that means if a sick cat is in the neighborhood there is some danger of exposure, which can be a scary thought.
As far as the leukemia shot, I'd never get it, it has been proven to be too dangerous, the vaccination itself is considered high risk. And it is trasmitted through blood and other fluids, the same way AIDS is transmitted in humans, so unless you step in blood and walk in your house Tabbi should be safe.
 

violet

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
1,220
Purraise
30
Location
MA
Originally posted by Taryn:
There have been indoor only cats who have ended up with leukemia, the assumption on it being carried in on a person is a a well held thought amongst vets because they don't know how indoor only negative cats will suddenly show up positive.

Taryn
, info here regarding transmission of the feline leukemia virus
http://www.marleyfund.com/felvfacts.aspx

Will I infect my healthy cat if I pet a Feline Leukemia positive cat, and then pet my cat?
No. Not unless you were to go immediately from one cat to another, and have wet saliva, urine or blood on your hand. Even then the chances would be slim. Feline Leukemia needs to be transferred via saliva, mucus, urine, feces and blood, and will not live long outside the host (infected cat).
It is a fact that the feline leukemia virus does not live long outside the host.


VERSUS
the feline distemper virus
http://cats.about.com/od/diseasesand.../p/panleuk.htm

The feline panleuk virus (FVP) is extremely hardy and may survive for months, and even years. It is easily transmitted through contact, either cat-to-cat, or by human-to-cat :

Shared food and water bowls, litter pans, bedding
Mutual grooming
Fleas, during the active stage
In utero, from an infected queen
Human handling can transfer the FVP virus from one cat to another, by contact through hands, clothing, and shoes
Here is another article with some very good info on the feline leukemia virus
http://www.essortment.com/all/felineleukemia_retz.htm

First and foremost:

Cats can pass it on to each other through bites, grooming, and sharing water and food bowls and litter pans. Blood-sucking insects such as fleas and mosquitoes may transmit FeLV from cat to cat. It is not transmitted via air.
Also

Although about 70% of cats are exposed to the virus in their lifetimes, almost all recover, showing little if any signs of illness. The weak have a harder time fighting it off, and multicat households are also at risk. Kittens can contract the virus in the womb, or through the milk of a carrier mother. Some cats can harbor FeLV for years without showing signs of disease; therefore all kittens in a litter should be tested.
Cats that develop antibodies to the virus through the feline leukemia vaccine do not get sick. These cats can usually live a normal life. But in some cases, the virus may remain for a period of time somewhere in the body. It's possible that FeLV may cause disease at a later date, if the cats are stressed or medicated with drugs that suppress the immune system.
PROGRESSION OF DISEASE:

Feline leukemia begins with infection of the mouth tissues. It spreads from the mouth by blood cells and infects the lymph glands. At this stage, most cats are able to block the infection. If it invades the bone marrow, the cat is infected for life. It then spreads through the blood through the circulation. Tissues such as the tear glands, salivary glands, and urinary bladder become infected. The cat is now shedding the virus, and becomes infectious to other cats.
Extremely important

FeLV-RELATED CONDITIONS:

Other conditions that may be caused by FeLV include: blood in the stool, decreased stamina, immune suppression, bleeding disorders, excessive drinking and urination, abortion, infertility, "infant mortality complex" (the unexplained deaths of newborn kittens), arthritis, ulcers at body openings (i.e., mouth, anus, vagina, and eyes), immune diseases like inflammatory bowel disease, cystitis, cloudy eyes, and neurologic abnormalities.
That's why vets routinely retest for FelV when cats develop certain chronic conditions. Vets do this even if the cats have been strictly indoor for a number of years and originally tested negative for FeLV. (My strictly indoor IBD cat was retested when he got very sick.)

The ELISA test, which can be performed in a veterinarian's office, detects the primary as well as the secondary stage of the disease, after it has reached the bone marrow. The IFA test detects the virus in its secondary stage. All cats testing positive on the IFA test and most who are ELISA-positive remain positive for life and can infect other cats. On the other hand, a negative FeLV test does not necessarily indicate that the cat is virus-free, and it may contract leukemia at a later date.
Other diagnostic tests for feline leukemia include a complete blood count, blood chemistries, x-rays or ultrasound of the chest and/or abdomen, bone marrow or lymph node biopsy, endoscopy, and examination of the chest and/or abdominal fluids.
 

taryn

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
930
Purraise
2
Location
O'Fallon, IL
I have 2 leukemia positive cats inside and 6 outside, do you not think I don't already know how it is transmitted and all about it. I said that is what vets USE I never said I AGREED with them, which I DON'T.

I'm just saying vets use it as excuse because they can't explain how the cat got leukemia.

Maude was negative even after taking care of 13 kittens and 3 mother cats, all leukemia positive outside and coming right back inside and tending to Maude. If she still is negative I don't know since Attitude and Nuts have moved in, but if Maude didn't get leukemia from all of the indirect contact, and I'm talking I'd have a kitten lick my fingers than go in and Maude would lick the same finger(possibly still damp from the positive kitten) and she was fine. This was before I knew anyone had leukemia, I washed my hands after contact with them and before contact with Maude(as a just in case) after I found out.

I know it doesn't live long outside the body, the cats all use the same carrier even before I moved Nuts and Attitude in and there were no danger of infection through it.

I know about FeLV, like I said between indoor and outdoor cats I have 8 of them. As I said I was stating what vets say, and I don't believe it either. I think some vets think it might true others I think use it to scare owners into vaccinating their cats against it. As I said Maude is only vaccinated because Attitude and Nuts are inside and they are positive. Otherwise she wouldn't be. Like I said other than rabies that is the only other shot she gets. I think I'm going to ask my vet what he thinks and decide what I'm going to do with Attitude and Nuts, as I said chances are they will be getting only rabies vaccines from now on since they both got their full set of kitten shots.

Taryn
 

violet

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
1,220
Purraise
30
Location
MA
I'm just saying vets use it as excuse because they can't explain how the cat got leukemia.
This is a very good article
http://ww.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+1315&aid=211

And it explains how a cat can test positive after having tested negative.

Finally, a negative FeLV test does not imply the cat is immune to FeLV or was never exposed to it. A negative test could mean the cat:

Has never been exposed to FeLV

Is infected, but the number of virus particles is too low to detect. The cat may test positive at a later date.

Has overcome a previous infection.
And this, from another article, is most certainly worth keeping in mind

http://www.essortment.com/all/felineleukemia_retz.htm

Cats that develop antibodies to the virus through the feline leukemia vaccine do not get sick. These cats can usually live a normal life. But in some cases, the virus may remain for a period of time somewhere in the body. It's possible that FeLV may cause disease at a later date, if the cats are stressed or medicated with drugs that suppress the immune system.
 
Top