anti-vaccination

3catsn1dog

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I only get the rabies vaccine for my pets. Its the only one I need and the cats are strictly indoors and the furthest outside they get in when its warm Ill let them out on the inclosed porch to lounge a bit. The dog gets the rabies vaccine also but nothing else. He generally is the only dog around here unless his cousins or aunt weenie comes over and those dogs are all vaccinated to high heavens and back again.
 
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tessa_s212

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There has not been positive rabies case in wildlife in my county, or in all the counties surrounding mine in the past few years - maybe even longer. If you go a 4 counties over, you'll find a few here and there of positive cases of rabies in bats, but not other wildlife. It is just not much of a risk at all here where I live. There hasn't been a positive rabies dog or cat since before 2004 here in Ohio. I'm not scared at all of my cats contracting rabies, not even the outdoor barn cats!
 

otto

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Originally Posted by tessa_s212

There has not been positive rabies case in wildlife in my county, or in all the counties surrounding mine in the past few years - maybe even longer. If you go a 4 counties over, you'll find a few here and there of positive cases of rabies in bats, but not other wildlife. It is just not much of a risk at all here where I live. There hasn't been a positive rabies dog or cat since before 2004 here in Ohio. I'm not scared at all of my cats contracting rabies, not even the outdoor barn cats!
And the reason rabies is down in certain areas is because of vaccinations!


I'm not nagging you, I hope you know, but wanted to point that out.
 

7_angel

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Not vaccinating for rabies is playing russian roulette with your cats, in my opinion
Ah, but then again, vaccinating your animal can also be playing Russian Roulette. I'm one of those people who lost my cat to the vaccine itself. My little girl cat went into anaphylactic shock and died soon after receiving the rabies vaccine. No, she wasn't old, no she wasn't a baby, and she was in reasonably good health (she had feline herpes, but that was under control). She was 3 years old when she died. Broke my heart - still does.

I have since adopted 2 other cats. They received their initial set of vaccines - but not because I ok'd it - shelter and vet insisted on it. Yes, it is the law here to have the rabies vaccine. No, they don't go outside at all. Bats are not allowed in the house either. The "law" is a blanket - but please realize one size does not fit all...

To experience something like that - where a cat dies from the very thing that is supposed to protect her... I'd be a fool to do that again.
 

killerapple

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Where I live in Ohio, it is now illegal to not have your cats vaccinated for rabies. Including strays/feral colonies that you maintain. (If you TNR, you have to get the cat vaccinated for rabies.)

Maybe it's different county to county, but that's the rule here.
 
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tessa_s212

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Originally Posted by killerapple

Where I live in Ohio, it is now illegal to not have your cats vaccinated for rabies. Including strays/feral colonies that you maintain. (If you TNR, you have to get the cat vaccinated for rabies.)

Maybe it's different county to county, but that's the rule here.
There is no state-wide law that requires mandatory rabies vaccination of cats - but counties are allowed to make up their own rules. Because rabies is not a concern in my county, nor any surrounding counties(nor their surrounding counties), my county has no mandatory rabies vaccine laws for cats.
 

lovemahkitties

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Originally Posted by 7_Angel

No, they don't go outside at all. Bats are not allowed in the house either.
i'm not all disagreeing with your stance on vaccination, i would feel the same way you do had i lost a baby to the vaccine itself, trust me... but i just want to point out that bats weren't 'allowed' in my house either. i lived in that house for 11 years, and had that one sole experience with a bat getting in. bats are like mice, they can squeeze through any tiny hole. had the bat been rabid (and maybe it was, maybe that's why it lost it's way and ended up inside my house), or my cat not vaccinated... i shudder to think. at the very least a very stressful period of waiting and wondering would have ensued.

this subject has negatives on both sides. personally, it's a tough call for me as i've experienced first hand a situation where rabies could have been transmitted, as well as a recent vaccination reaction scare. i like to think i'm doing enough, but not too much.
 

darlili

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You know, it seems very strange to me that any state allows a county to 'opt out' of rabies vaccinations. I mean, even Hawaii, which does not have rabies, will not allow an unvaccinated animal in. And it's not like a rabid animal is going to observe county lines all that much.

And, no, people don't usually invite rabid bats, squirrels, or any other animal into the house or deck or patio - but they do get in.

The reason we don't see polio, for example, is due to the polio vaccine - ask some of the older grandparents around what a blessing that was, even if some kids did have bad reactions. IMO, people tend to forget the general lack of epidemics is because most of the population has been protected. We start losing that percentage, and we'll see epidemics all over again.
 
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tessa_s212

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Originally Posted by darlili

The reason we don't see polio, for example, is due to the polio vaccine - ask some of the older grandparents around what a blessing that was, even if some kids did have bad reactions. IMO, people tend to forget the general lack of epidemics is because most of the population has been protected. We start losing that percentage, and we'll see epidemics all over again.
Not true. Polio and most all other diseases were declining far before the vaccines were made, and in fact they began to rise again after the vaccine was introduced.
 

darlili

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Seriously - post-Salk there were rises in polio incidence? That seems to fly in the face of recorded data. And, if you look at the few countries where currently polio is still a problem you may find a correlation - lack of acceptance of vaccination and incidence of polio.

As I said, even if you don't trust scientific research for whatever reason - find some older folks who remember the fear parents had of polio before the Salk vaccine.
 

7_angel

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Originally Posted by lovemahkitties

i would feel the same way you do had i lost a baby to the vaccine itself, trust me... but i just want to point out that bats weren't 'allowed' in my house either.
lovemahkitties - I apologize for saying bats 'aren't allowed' in my house... when I responded to the thread earlier, I was in a hurry and was skimming the posts and didn't see that part on yours where a bat actually did come into your house! I'm sure I came across as insensitive and my sincerest apologies!

I hear this quite often though - "what if a bat comes in the house?" I never really thought it would be probable or even possible for a bat to get in the house. So your account does give me food for thought. However, I see several "ifs" here... if a bat got in my house, if I wasn't aware of the bats presence before my cats were, if the bat had rabies and if the bat bit my cat.

So far, I haven't heard any stories/news of bats making their way into a home and biting a cat (or other animal) and transmitting rabies. Not to say that this sort of thing never could or ever did happen, and with all due respect, I certainly do not want to down-play your experience - that would be a scare!

With that said, I have made a website in memory of my precious girl and have had quite a number of people contact me and tell me the same thing has happened to their cat or dog - a reaction to a vaccine (most accounts have been rabies) leading to death.

Certainly either situation - bat bite leading to rabies leading to death or reaction to a vaccination leading to death are both tragic. I have the stance that I do though because of the terrible loss I have had as well as numerous other accounts from other pet-parents.
 

katkisses

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I am very leary of vaccs too. I only get rabies vaccs for my 5 cats.

It was only a month or so ago that I started getting the rabies vacs. I always figured that since my cats are indoor only (3 are afraid of outside) and too skittish to bite any guest, that there is only a very slim chance of them getting rabies. Which is true, but since I followed a thread on here where a cat bit a vet, and wasn't utd on rabies, the cat had to be quarintined for 15 days. The vet had to report the bite to animal control because it was the law in that state. In some states the animal can be put down for this, and some charge fines too.

After reading that thread, I realized that even though my cats will probably never get rabies, they may bite a vet (think about a cat in major pain, in an emergency) or someone, and it gets reported to Animal Control, who either puts your cat in quarintine for 15+ days OR even puts the cat to sleep.

I unerstand everyones view on this, I have a phobia of my cats getting VAS from shots, but I feel that it is more likely that they bite a vet (when in pain) than them getting VAS. But it is vertainly a very close call. This is the only shot I give.
 

samhainborn

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I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but I would like to share something that my husband told me early this morning when he read this thread over my shoulder.

When my hubby about 16 (right before I met him) his parents were working on separation. His father came to the house to get his things out, with a police escort. There was a BRAND NEW sign on the gate that said "Beware of dog", and my hubby's Spitz was very clearly growling at the police officer before the cop got anywhere close to the gate. The officer chose to ignore the sign, the clear message from the dog, AND my MIL's warning. She asked the cop to give her a chance to leash the dog, but the officer went through the gate before she could grab the dog. Obviously, the Spitz bit him. And of course, she wasn't vaccinated.

Even though there were MULTIPLE warnings given to the man, he chose to come inside the gate anyway, inviting the attack. The dog was put down the same day, as per city law, and a necropsy was performed on her brain, to see if she had rabies.

You cannot control what other people choose to do. Even a leashed animal can be approached by people who refuse to listen to you or to your pet's warning signs. A child of your friends or relatives could come over and corner the cat. Children especially have trouble recognizing the danger from animals. What would happen if a 2 or 3 year old cornered one of your pets, got bitten, and then your pet had to be quarantined, or god forbid put down?

Even enclosed porches aren't foolproof. A raccoon can easily shred screens. Rabid dogs have jumped through glass windows before. Even when there is not a current rabies outbreak in an area, all it takes is one dog, or coyote, or bat or squirrel to enter into an area where the population is NOT vaccinated. Without vaccinations, rabies can spread like wildfire, crossing county lines in a matter of weeks, even days. (This information given to me by a game warden) And keep in mind that in most areas, people don't go out and test random samples of the wild population for rabies. There may not be any DOCUMENTED cases, but I assure you, out there somewhere there are at least a few cases.

To me this really is not worth the risk of avoiding vaccinations.
 
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tessa_s212

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Originally Posted by darlili

Seriously - post-Salk there were rises in polio incidence? That seems to fly in the face of recorded data. And, if you look at the few countries where currently polio is still a problem you may find a correlation - lack of acceptance of vaccination and incidence of polio.

As I said, even if you don't trust scientific research for whatever reason - find some older folks who remember the fear parents had of polio before the Salk vaccine.
\\

Oh, I have no doubt in the world there was fear mongering. Of course there was fear. That isn't valid research, however. The government tries to put fear into people of every disease that a vaccine comes out for. I mean, come on, chicken pox? Now all of a sudden it is soooo dangerous? Seems to me when I was a kid parents took children to chicken pox parties to get it over with while young before they got into school.

I'm sure there are more (serious) reactions and chronic problems related to vaccines in animals than we could ever imagine. Of course, reactions aren't properly recorded, nor are any vaccines properly studied..

Right now I'm just not in the position financially to have to treat/save my animals life if there was a very serious chronic reaction to a vaccine. I am more afraid, and IMO reasonably so, of the vaccine than the disease. This is not a decision I will make lightly.
 

killerapple

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I don't think it's necessarily about the bat biting a cat - but a cat chasing the bat and potentially killing the bat and eating it, then contracting rabies.

Even if it wasn't mandated in my county, I would keep my kitties up to date with rabies. What if they would be unintentionally provoked by a child (or stressed at the vets) and bite someone out of character? If they're up to date, I wouldn't have to worry about them being quarantined or PTS (or myself being sued!!!!!) That said, if something awful would happen due to the vaccine, I would feel awful... but I would also feel awful if a bat got into the house and I saw my kitties eating it and then having them die because of rabies that I could've prevented with a vaccine...
 

lovemahkitties

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Originally Posted by tessa_s212

\\

I mean, come on, chicken pox? Now all of a sudden it is soooo dangerous? Seems to me when I was a kid parents took children to chicken pox parties to get it over with while young before they got into school.
i may be getting way off topic here (sorry!)... but, as you probably know, those who easily dealt with the chickenpox virus as children continue to carry that particular herpes virus throughout their lives, and it can express itself as shingles in later life.

a good friend of mine contracted chickenpox at the ripe old age of 33 from an adult with a shingles outbreak. chickenpox in an adult is not always a simple affair, as it frequently involves more than just surface skin lesions. he spent over a week in the hospital in critical care with pneumonia and lesions in his mouth and throat which made it nearly impossible to swallow and breathe. in adults, chickenpox can have lethal complications.

i would have to assume that by eliminating the spread of the virus by vaccine, these more serious cases would be eliminated.

again, it may be a rare situation, but where do we draw the line? when do vaccinations become 'worth it'? the answer is different for all of us, because it is determined by our own personal experiences and knowledge, no?
 

lovemahkitties

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Originally Posted by 7_Angel

lovemahkitties - I apologize for saying bats 'aren't allowed' in my house... when I responded to the thread earlier, I was in a hurry and was skimming the posts and didn't see that part on yours where a bat actually did come into your house! I'm sure I came across as insensitive and my sincerest apologies!
no worries angel! i wasn't at all offended, just didn't want to leave the impression that i was living in a house where bats were frequent and welcome guests! haha...

btw, i checked out seven's site. what a sweet and beautiful little girl! (i have a dilute torti as well) i'm so so sorry for what you both endured, and again... i wouldn't feel differently than you had i had your experience. you've done her memory well with your site
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by killerapple

I don't think it's necessarily about the bat biting a cat - but a cat chasing the bat and potentially killing the bat and eating it, then contracting rabies.

Even if it wasn't mandated in my county, I would keep my kitties up to date with rabies. What if they would be unintentionally provoked by a child (or stressed at the vets) and bite someone out of character? If they're up to date, I wouldn't have to worry about them being quarantined or PTS (or myself being sued!!!!!) That said, if something awful would happen due to the vaccine, I would feel awful... but I would also feel awful if a bat got into the house and I saw my kitties eating it and then having them die because of rabies that I could've prevented with a vaccine...
My vet basically wants only kitten and one booster ... Unless they are indoor outdoor ... In my area ONLY the bat in known to be rabid.... My vet gently explained she did not want me calling her in a few yrs saying Zoey had a bat in her mouth now what?... Zoey did get a rabies shot
 

Willowy

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There is ample evidence that the rabies vaccine confers immunity for at least 7 years, if given after 6 months of age. So I don't worry about my cats actually getting rabies, even if they are exposed (by a bat in the house or whatever). If I had more guests, I might keep them up-to-date for legal reasons. It's something that should be carefully considered on a case-by-case basis.
 

mybabies

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Check out THIS website: http://www.critteradvocacy.org It is written by a vet and it will tell you all you need to know about vaccinations.

My cats do NOT get vaccinated (though if there was a vet who would do intra/ultra nasal one's I would) as I lost my beloved Corkie to cancer caused by her VAS that took her leg!
 
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