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Do We Have The Guts: Stopping Rankism - The Somebodies vs. the Nobodies

post #1 of 15
1/24/10 at 1:35pm
Thread Starter 
There's a man named Robert Fuller who has coined the term "Rankism" which, according to him, is the "root of all the other isms - racism, sexism, etc." and the opposite term is "Dignitariansim". In other words, it boils down to people with power (Somebodies) tend to attack the dignity of those with less power (Nobodies).
For Christians, anti-rankism is right in line with Jesus' teaching that in His Kingdom, the least among us is also the greatest, and to love our neighbor as we do ourselves (hopefully, we DO love ourselves in a healthy way ).
Bullies win. We root for winners. We dread being losers, victims, etc. but we tend to emphathize with the underdogs....is our true instinct to respect dignity?
Rankism is in our schools, our workplaces, our government. Do you think we have the courage and the willpower to change all that? Is it time for a revolution?

Here's some companies that seem to be working it out:
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work...ry_negotiation
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post #2 of 15
1/24/10 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme View Post

For Christians, anti-rankism is right in line with Jesus' teaching that in His Kingdom, the least among us is also the greatest, and to love our neighbor as we do ourselves (hopefully, we DO love ourselves in a healthy way ).
I don't know if everyone will agree that Jesus' teaching to love thy neighbor as we do ourselves equates to anti rankism. A lot of people who are also Christians believe rankism is healthy, not everyone can be equal, someone has to win while the other loses, and the "winner" should be justly rewarded for his or her success by having a higher social status and more money than the "loser".

Actually to go further into this, US Christians (protestants) are unlikely to agree, because Christianity in the US is largely a product of puritans, people who believed that working and acquiring wealth is NOT a sin, it is in fact something that brings you closer to god, god has a "calling" that he assigns to each person and following that calling leads to acquiring money, status, and getting closer to God all at the same time. This is contrary to what Christianity preached before the protestant reformation -it condemned the wealthy and dignified the poor...soo anyway to get back on topic,

For myself, I always side with the underdog, I don't think it's human nature in general but it is certainly a characteristic of my own personality. I don't really believe there is one way for all of humankind to think, different ways of thinking that are commonly described as "human nature" can be changed. For example, if you look at various tribes and how their societies are organized: some are based on extreme competition while others on extreme altruism. What is human nature to one tribe is completely different to other tribes.

Personally, I am someone who believes more in altruism than competition.

Is it time for a revolution?? I think it's unlikely any revolution will happen in the near present in the US, based on what I generally know of revolutions...
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post #3 of 15
1/25/10 at 3:16am
I think there's a difference between believing that those who work hard deserve success vs. those who use that success to keep those who haven't yet succeeded from doing so.

I think rankism is the latter. There's nothing wrong with achieving and succeeding. There IS a problem, however, abusing others either to get there or to stay there.

As far as how Christians fit into it...I'm not going there. All I will say is that as a Christian, I know I'm a sinner and that is why I have God in my life. That is why God sacrificed his son, Jesus. I believe that all humans are sinners, Christian or not.
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post #4 of 15
1/25/10 at 7:55am
Christianity in the US is NOT a product of the Puritans. Members of the Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Episcopal (Anglican) Churches are most certainly from their own historical background and most Protestants are members of Churches which separated from one of these during the “Enlightenment†period (or some later.) The most widespread Protestant churches (Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist) have long histories which have absolutely nothing to do with the Puritans.

Much of what people often call “Puritanism†is actually “Victorianismâ€, resulting from the strict social standards set by Queen Victoria which spread through much of Western culture during her reign, rather than from any church teachings.

The teachings of Christianity absolutely DO tell its followers to look out for those in need and those less fortunate than yourself. That doesn't mean that all individual churches hold to that view, but most I know of certainly do.
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post #5 of 15
1/25/10 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
I don't know if everyone will agree that Jesus' teaching to love thy neighbor as we do ourselves equates to anti rankism. A lot of people who are also Christians believe rankism is healthy, not everyone can be equal, someone has to win while the other loses, and the "winner" should be justly rewarded for his or her success by having a higher social status and more money than the "loser".
That's basically what the campaign against gay marriage is. Religious groups just not wanting to have to share a position of "rank" they consider to belong exclusively to them.
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post #6 of 15
1/25/10 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
I don't know if everyone will agree that Jesus' teaching to love thy neighbor as we do ourselves equates to anti rankism. A lot of people who are also Christians believe rankism is healthy, not everyone can be equal, someone has to win while the other loses, and the "winner" should be justly rewarded for his or her success by having a higher social status and more money than the "loser".

I see you are now speaking for all Christians now Ut0pia. May I ask where you got your statistics?

Actually to go further into this, US Christians (protestants) are unlikely to agree, because Christianity in the US is largely a product of puritans, people who believed that working and acquiring wealth is NOT a sin, it is in fact something that brings you closer to god, god has a "calling" that he assigns to each person and following that calling leads to acquiring money, status, and getting closer to God all at the same time. This is contrary to what Christianity preached before the protestant reformation -it condemned the wealthy and dignified the poor...soo anyway to get back on topic,

Really? You might want to reconsider the above remark. "Before the Reformation," the masses were not even ALLOWED to read the Bible. And, maybe it is just me, but I feeling burning people at the stake is a tad worse than working hard and making a better life for yourself. The Roman Catholic Church, prior to the Reformation and after the Reformation was a very UN-Chrisitan like religion.

For myself, I always side with the underdog, I don't think it's human nature in general but it is certainly a characteristic of my own personality. I don't really believe there is one way for all of humankind to think, different ways of thinking that are commonly described as "human nature" can be changed. For example, if you look at various tribes and how their societies are organized: some are based on extreme competition while others on extreme altruism. What is human nature to one tribe is completely different to other tribes.

Personally, I am someone who believes more in altruism than competition.

Is it time for a revolution?? I think it's unlikely any revolution will happen in the near present in the US, based on what I generally know of revolutions...
Really, man is just a savage, barbarian and always will be.
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post #7 of 15
1/25/10 at 10:44am
Quote:
Really? You might want to reconsider the above remark. "Before the Reformation," the masses were not even ALLOWED to read the Bible. And, maybe it is just me, but I feeling burning people at the stake is a tad worse than working hard and making a better life for yourself. The Roman Catholic Church, prior to the Reformation and after the Reformation was a very UN-Chrisitan like religion.
I wasn't saying the Roman Catholic Church prior to the Reformation was great, just saying, the whole premise was if you are poor and suffering, you will be closer to God in the afterlife..
And I wasn't speaking for all Christians, just certain people I know who are Christian and this is what they believe...I was just trying to say not all Christians interpret the saying that we should love our neighbors in the same way, because ones I know certainly don't interpret it as anti rankism...

You can certainly look out for the poor, give charity and STILL believe that rankism is a good thing in a sense that wealthy people should be rewarded for their hard work, so they deserve to be wealthy and have higher social status.
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post #8 of 15
1/25/10 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
You can certainly look out for the poor, give charity and STILL believe that rankism is a good thing in a sense that wealthy people should be rewarded for their hard work, so they deserve to be wealthy and have higher social status.
Being wealthy does not make a person great or hold rank. There are some people who are very wealthy by unscrupulous business dealings, inheritance, criminal dealings etc...... The person who slaves in a factory, or any other job is also a hard worker, and just because they don't have a fat bank account does NOT make them a lesser person.
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post #9 of 15
1/25/10 at 12:48pm
"The meek shall inherit the Earth"
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post #10 of 15
1/25/10 at 2:45pm
The people who have learned how respect and live off the land, while giving back what they take, will be the ones who inherit the earth. Greed and Money won't buy that inheritance.

I do believe that we will see a revolution in this country one day. They can't keep going and doing the things they are doing before the people say enough. It's like slowly blowing air into a balloon with no pressure valve. The balloon is going to pop. Unfortunately we have a government who is so arrogant they will fight us to take what is ours back.
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post #11 of 15
1/25/10 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by abbycats View Post
Being wealthy does not make a person great or hold rank. There are some people who are very wealthy by unscrupulous business dealings, inheritance, criminal dealings etc...... The person who slaves in a factory, or any other job is also a hard worker, and just because they don't have a fat bank account does NOT make them a lesser person.
these are my thoughts exactly, but some people I communicate with (who are also christians) believe the wealthy completely deserve what they have and they should be given tax breaks and rewarded in all kinds of ways and such..lol I won't go further cuz I dont' want to make this political...
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post #12 of 15
1/25/10 at 6:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
these are my thoughts exactly, but some people I communicate with (who are also christians) believe the wealthy completely deserve what they have and they should be given tax breaks and rewarded in all kinds of ways and such..lol I won't go further cuz I dont' want to make this political...
Are you saying the "wealthy" DON'T deserve what they have? If they worked for it, it is theirs and who are you or anyone else to say they don't "deserve" it?

The reason for the tax breaks is, give tax breaks to the people that EMPLOY people. The small business owners, the backbone of America. This is not rocket science.

No, much better to do as Barack has done and bail out all of Wall Street and GM and the other auto makers with MY money. So, you agree with that Ut0pia?

Oh, and what "all kinds of way" are you talking about besides tax breaks?
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post #13 of 15
1/26/10 at 9:04am
Wasn't the Wall St bailout a done deal before the presidential election?
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post #14 of 15
1/26/10 at 10:07am
Maybe I'm not understanding this "rankism" correctly, but I really don't understand how taxes relate to this at all?

My father always told me that you can tell the true character of a person, any person, by how they treat servers (i.e. waitstaff in a restaurant). He's been 100% right on the money there. Someone who looks down their noses at someone who happens to have that job doesn't deserve the time of day from me. A compassionate person, regardless of race, sex, sexual orientation, or creed, will treat everyone as equals who deserve their respect. I guess I was raised right.

But to me there is a difference between understanding that all people are created equal and seeing the benefits of hard work, determination, and ability. Not all people ARE created equal in that respect - some have more drive and determination, and frankly ability in one area or another. Should Frank Lloyd Wright not have been compensated more because he was a genius? Should he have charged the nominal rate of a lesser architect that wasn't nationally in demand?

That doesn't mean that anyone is a lesser person for not being "rich" and having money certainly doesn't mean that they are any better (eg. Paris Hilton!). The content of their character doesn't change with the amount in their bank account.

I think that there is a difference between "rankism", seeing the difference between ranks as the higher the rank being better, and there being different classes at all.
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post #15 of 15
1/26/10 at 11:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
My father always told me that you can tell the true character of a person, any person, by how they treat servers (i.e. waitstaff in a restaurant). He's been 100% right on the money there. Someone who looks down their noses at someone who happens to have that job doesn't deserve the time of day from me. A compassionate person, regardless of race, sex, sexual orientation, or creed, will treat everyone as equals who deserve their respect. I guess I was raised right.

But to me there is a difference between understanding that all people are created equal and seeing the benefits of hard work, determination, and ability. Not all people ARE created equal in that respect - some have more drive and determination, and frankly ability in one area or another. Should Frank Lloyd Wright not have been compensated more because he was a genius? Should he have charged the nominal rate of a lesser architect that wasn't nationally in demand?

That doesn't mean that anyone is a lesser person for not being "rich" and having money certainly doesn't mean that they are any better (eg. Paris Hilton!). The content of their character doesn't change with the amount in their bank account.

I think that there is a difference between "rankism", seeing the difference between ranks as the higher the rank being better, and there being different classes at all.
You get it An example of ranksim would be this:
The lawyer barks at the secretary - where's the follow-up on the police report? when she replies, "the DA's office hasn't gotten it yet.", he rolls his eyes, and says, "no excuses - just get it done-like yesterday!" and when she turns to leave, the lawyer moans to Heaven, and anyone else in hearing range, "I'm surrounded by idiots!!!". There's no understanding the secretary's lack of control over another office's performance; there's no complimenting, "but I appreciate that you got our defense investigator to go back and re-interview those last 2 witnesses, and you got him to fax his report same day!"
In this scenario, the lawyer/employer is the Somebody; the secretary is the Nobody.

Later, the secretary sneers at the receptionist: "What kind of message is this - they won't give a last name or their phone number?? It's your job to get it - you need to get it right next time. Oh, and fax this letter to the DA's office right away, as in yesterday!" Now the secretary is the Somebody and the receptionist is the Nobody.

A reverse scenario: An anesthesiologist making the rounds hears wailing. It's her 11yo patient who is afraid of having her catheter removed, and the overbusy nurse is terse. The doctor is a Somebody over both the nurse and the patient, but she is also a Dignitarian: "Here, nurse, let me do that - I'm on call for a possible C-section anyway....here, Sweetie, can you relax for me? I see you like Hannah Montana - can you tell me something about her show? Okay, I'm gonna put my hand on your knee here & you'll feel the foley sliding out, but you keep telling me about Hannah- does your sister like Hannah too? What - oh, I'm done already!! Yeah, see how brave you are? I'm so proud of you! Thank you for telling me about Hannah." The doctor, who has all the power & control, socially, professionally, has respected the Nobodies and given them dignity and equality
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